Autopsy Post match discussion Pies vs Saints

[McGuanes Seven]

My first game attended for the year, you certainly get a different perspective being able to see everything, not just what is televised. Some thoughts, in no particular order:

• the three tall set up took a while to function, they got in each other's way early one. By the last quarter, the set up was very good - at centre bunches Gault was in the goal square, Cloke was about 40 metres out and White was on the edge of the fifty. He then charged into the centre and contested the ball in the absence of a quick takeaway. White's value and contribution can't therefore be judged on his stats alone.
• I think having Witts as this third tall will be an upgrade on Gault, because while Gault might be a bit more mobile, Witts will not be outmarked or pushed aside as easily and will win more ruck contests.
• the centre set ups were mostly Grundy, Pendles ans Swanny. Varcoe, Crisp and Broomhead seemed to rotate the fourth spot. My opinion was we looked best with Broomhead in this role. seemed to win and clear the ball more
• Grundy got on top of Longer after the first part of the first quarter. He seemed to get his hands to the ball first mostly but did not manage to convert this to an advantage to our mids. My view is that this will come with experience.
• I have totally changed my view on Varcoe. I was as critical of him as any opinion expressed on BF. I did not think he contested enough of went in hard enough and felt he might have had a bit of the Nick Malceski "too famous to have to try too hard". The man was like something out of our 2010 side. he was dogged and second, third and fourth efforts were like a hungry dog after a bone! Dwyer's easy goal in the second quarter was largely as a result of Varcoe worrying several Saints players out of the ball.
• the back six gave the Saints forwards very little latitude. Would like to see Tooves win the hard balls, as he does, and handball to the Ox, Pendles or the Seed.
• I have also changed my view of the Ox from 'ok' to 'very valuable player' and who is getting better each week. with the progressive experience, the little dinky kicks are becoming fewer, the bigger kicks to advantage are increasing and his confidence and contribution are both on the up. His goal after the Pendles handball after free kick illustrated not only his capabilities but his increasing confidence in using them.
• I thought Goldsack was solid as part of the back six unit, as they all were. I thought his kicking out - mostly long to a contest and some long to advantage, was better than most recent games since Leon was doing it.
• leaving the best for last - Swan back to last year's ANZAC Day form. The man was everywhere and disposal very good.

Yes, it was only St Kilda, but I liked the structure of the forward line, Grundy against all comers, Cloke and Swan returning to form , a back six as a unit and the younger guys holding up well. A lot to like.

 

[TradeDraft]

Grundy got on top of Longer after the first part of the first quarter. He seemed to get his hands to the ball first mostly but did not manage to convert this to an advantage to our mids. My view is that this will come with experience

and Mids needs to work on getting his taps as well. Not just Grundy directing his Taps

 

[Maggie5]

What is it with the AFL, cannot watch the replay without having AFL Live Pass.
I tried searching Bigpond site link but took me back to AFL, does anyone know where you can watch replay? Thanks

 

[Vicky Park]

• I have totally changed my view on Varcoe. I was as critical of him as any opinion expressed on BF. I did not think he contested enough of went in hard enough and felt he might have had a bit of the Nick Malceski "too famous to have to try too hard". The man was like something out of our 2010 side. he was dogged and second, third and fourth efforts were like a hungry dog after a bone! Dwyer's easy goal in the second quarter was largely as a result of Varcoe worrying several Saints players out of the ball.
• .

This. Varcoe's persistence in that piece of play was fantastic. Hard to see because I was sitting on the opposite side of the ground. But in watching the replay, the Pies fans over there were ecstatic.

 

[Somebody]

What is it with the AFL, cannot watch the replay without having AFL Live Pass.
I tried searching Bigpond site link but took me back to AFL, does anyone know where you can watch replay? Thanks

I perhaps shouldn't post it publicly, but if you PM me I can tell you where to get hi res replay downloads.

 

[Apex36]

What is it with the AFL, cannot watch the replay without having AFL Live Pass.
I tried searching Bigpond site link but took me back to AFL, does anyone know where you can watch replay? Thanks

Scroll back a few pages, There is a link to the full replay on YouTube.

 

[Bay Pie]

Am I the only person who thinks Broomhead plays nothing like Sidebottom

Nope. They are similar in size and do their best work outside the contest. That's it.

Broomy is very quick and his disposal is much sharper, low bullet like passes. Sidey is a very accurate kick just not the lower bullets, more well placed for an easier mark.

Broomy and Crisp were very good on Friday, along with Varcoe.

Once Grundy starts clunking some marks, while continuing to build his tank, he'll be among the competitions top notch ruckman.

Yep, rubbish opposition but the same opposition some thought were more talented then us.

Trav, Swan and Pendles were all good, but it was the youngsters that lifted to enable such a dominant win.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

My first game attended for the year, you certainly get a different perspective being able to see everything, not just what is televised. Some thoughts, in no particular order:

• the three tall set up took a while to function, they got in each other's way early one. By the last quarter, the set up was very good - at centre bunches Gault was in the goal square, Cloke was about 40 metres out and White was on the edge of the fifty. He then charged into the centre and contested the ball in the absence of a quick takeaway. White's value and contribution can't therefore be judged on his stats alone.
• I think having Witts as this third tall will be an upgrade on Gault, because while Gault might be a bit more mobile, Witts will not be outmarked or pushed aside as easily and will win more ruck contests.
• the centre set ups were mostly Grundy, Pendles ans Swanny. Varcoe, Crisp and Broomhead seemed to rotate the fourth spot. My opinion was we looked best with Broomhead in this role. seemed to win and clear the ball more
• Grundy got on top of Longer after the first part of the first quarter. He seemed to get his hands to the ball first mostly but did not manage to convert this to an advantage to our mids. My view is that this will come with experience.
• I have totally changed my view on Varcoe. I was as critical of him as any opinion expressed on BF. I did not think he contested enough of went in hard enough and felt he might have had a bit of the Nick Malceski "too famous to have to try too hard". The man was like something out of our 2010 side. he was dogged and second, third and fourth efforts were like a hungry dog after a bone! Dwyer's easy goal in the second quarter was largely as a result of Varcoe worrying several Saints players out of the ball.
• the back six gave the Saints forwards very little latitude. Would like to see Tooves win the hard balls, as he does, and handball to the Ox, Pendles or the Seed.
• I have also changed my view of the Ox from 'ok' to 'very valuable player' and who is getting better each week. with the progressive experience, the little dinky kicks are becoming fewer, the bigger kicks to advantage are increasing and his confidence and contribution are both on the up. His goal after the Pendles handball after free kick illustrated not only his capabilities but his increasing confidence in using them.
• I thought Goldsack was solid as part of the back six unit, as they all were. I thought his kicking out - mostly long to a contest and some long to advantage, was better than most recent games since Leon was doing it.
• leaving the best for last - Swan back to last year's ANZAC Day form. The man was everywhere and disposal very good.

Yes, it was only St Kilda, but I liked the structure of the forward line, Grundy against all comers, Cloke and Swan returning to form , a back six as a unit and the younger guys holding up well. A lot to like.

Some very good observations. I like what you say about Witts. Only issue there for mine is if he becomes a liability as someone that can be rebounded off too easily if he doesn't take the mark. Witts is obviously not going to become Roughead but if he can use his following ability to offer defensive pressure if he doesn't mark then that plan might just work. If he can mark consistently hell be a real threat. Otherwise the forward line becomes too top heavy. He must find a way to lock the ball in his area one way or another.

 

[MagpieJoel]

What is it with the AFL, cannot watch the replay without having AFL Live Pass.
I tried searching Bigpond site link but took me back to AFL, does anyone know where you can watch replay? Thanks

There is also a thread on Nick's with direct links to each qtr.

 

[Apex36]

Some very good observations. I like what you say about Witts. Only issue there for mine is if he becomes a liability as someone that can be rebounded off too easily if he doesn't take the mark. Witts is obviously not going to become Roughead but if he can use his following ability to offer defensive pressure if he doesn't mark then that plan might just work. If he can mark consistently hell be a real threat. Otherwise the forward line becomes too top heavy. He must find a way to lock the ball in his area one way or another.

At the same time though, if our crumbers are doing their jobs correctly Witts should be able to create a lot of opportunities for them. Much like Cloke, he more often than not can bring the ball to ground if he doesn't mark. They should love sticking at his feet around the forward line.

 

[Somebody]

Scroll back a few pages, There is a link to the full replay on YouTube.

That's great I didnt' know you could get full games on youtube. Doens't look like you can get otehr games on youtube though. At the torrent site you can get every game at higher res, but you hvae to download the game (or at least a quarter at a time) first.
I like to watch the game of next week's opponent to see their form, so I already got the Carlton Essendon game. i liked what I saw, ie pretty confident for next week. essendon's disposal not too crash hot, but probly flat after the Dawks game.

 

[McGuanes Seven]

This. Varcoe's persistence in that piece of play was fantastic. Hard to see because I was sitting on the opposite side of the ground. But in watching the replay, the Pies fans over there were ecstatic.

As the Adelaide fan once famously said "it happened right in front of me". From P11 I could see the expression on Varcoe's face and those Saints clearly had a ball he wanted!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Am I the only person who thinks Broomhead plays nothing like Sidebottom

Agreed. Reminds me more of Didak to be honest, except he's not as penetrating a kick, and he can tackle.

 

[rose jam]

Yep, rubbish opposition but the same opposition some thought were more talented then us.
.

well David King completely wrote us off at the start of the game and were basically saying how we were going to get crushed.
So typical, everyone looks at the previous weeks result and just goes with that. Idiots.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

well David King completely wrote us off at the start of the game and were basically saying how we were going to get crushed.
So typical, everyone looks at the previous weeks result and just goes with that. Idiots.

I heard this the other day:
One or two well known footballer commentators make predictions as you have described so as to effect the odds on a game during play.
They deliberately say Team X is going to crush Team Y. Many dumb punters then back Team X based on the Commetators prediction thus blowing the odds out on Team Y. The Football commentator then puts money on Team Y at much better odds.
Not saying someone like King would do something like that as I can never recall him being accused of placing dodgy bets on football before.

 

[Somebody]

Lookign at the developing talent I think the team will improve a lot sooner than people think. Should definitley make the 8 and win a final, if I had more guts I'd bet a hundred grand on us making the 8.
Considering how few Afl games Gault has played, I was very impressed, such spriteliness in a guy that tall is pretty rare even in
aFL ranks. I'm expecting big things from him, perhaps by finals time. Hope he gets another game next week but Witts may force him out. But I tink he might be better suited vs the Bummers than Witts.
Would not be at all surprised if we are genuine contenders next year although I am a bit one-eyed I guess.

 

[Somebody]

I think Elliott has that claim

Stricktly speaking Elliot is not steak knives, he's a rooky winner.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think he has ever been this bad at kicking barring his very early games. In our good years he was never a good kick but this year his kicking has been absolutely diabolical.

I thought his kicking was decent last year. In which case this is just an early season hickup.

 

[Prestigerrycomo]

Was a very satisfactory win. Nice to see they haven't beaten us in 5 years

 

[Anzacday]

What is it with the AFL, cannot watch the replay without having AFL Live Pass.
I tried searching Bigpond site link but took me back to AFL, does anyone know where you can watch replay? Thanks

Try here if you're with Telstra it's unmetered...
http://www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay

 

[Kappa]

What is it with the AFL, cannot watch the replay without having AFL Live Pass.
I tried searching Bigpond site link but took me back to AFL, does anyone know where you can watch replay? Thanks

Go to the AFL site, mouse over "video" and hit "match replay". Don't need AFL live pass.

 

[Lord Wilberforce]

Langdon is a awesome. The new Jimmy Clement.

Broomhead is just warming up. The new Steele Sidebottom.

Cloke should have had 9. The new Matthew Richardson.

 

[HFF]

The good:
77 inside 50s. The ball was camped inside our forward 50 and we got reward for effort with the highest score of the round.
Grundy is developing beautifully.
Swan has slowly clicked into gear. Kicking was sharper, his movement and touch cleaner and his breakaway work at the centre clearances in particular are the type of clearances that are just priceless.
Ramsay IMO played his best game in black and white.
Broomhead needs to stay in the side period. The more game time he gets, the better he becomes. He was exceptional.
Cloke is slowly finding touch.
Elliott playing where he needs to spend most of his time- forward and he was a class above.
Dwyer was very good. Remains to be seen if he can back this type of performance up and stay in the side.
Goldsack out of the forward line is also better. Since he offers very little in terms of possession numbers, defence is his go due to his size/athleticism and willingness to tackle. He was alot better in the back half. His kick-in work has probably been the best we've had in along time. At least when he goes long it's a good 55-60m that carries.
Thin midfield in terms of personnel yet we still controlled most of the play.
13 individual goal kickers- been a long time since we've seen that.
A whopping 140 points well over 100. A long time since we've done that also.
Oxley uses the ball well as does Seedsman. We need the ball in their hands more often.
Blair 3 games in a row now exceeding expectations or actually meeting them.
Travis Varcoe- just wow. If he brings that kind of effort and intensity on a consistent basis, that is all we can ask really. He involved himself at every contest he hit.

The bad:
Give up alot of easy goals at times. Defensively still brittle. Fortunately the ball was camped in our forward 50 after qtr time but we need to be able to hold up a resistance when teams are on top of us. The first term giving up 6 goals and pretty easy ones was not good enough.
Toovey works his ass off but he puts on the worst kicking display of any player in the comp. He needs to be instructed to handball. Every time he kicks, we turn the ball over.
We allow the opposition easy ball on the outside when they get on top. They found too many spare/loose players through the middle of the ground and constantly put us under pressure with repeat inside 50 entries in the opening term. A guy who can run and kick like Shane Savage should not be allowed to roam free on the back end of the square and launch deep attacks. The better teams will torch us if we allow this i.e. Birchall.
Uncontested marks all over the ground too. We are huge culprits of allowing teams to hit up loose guys all over the ground in chains that end up un-interrupted and marked inside 50 for shots on goal.

 

[Somebody]

Go to the AFL site, mouse over "video" and hit "match replay". Don't need AFL live pass.

Just doesn't work if you are o/s. But have to wait 12 hours anyway which is no better than I already can get.

 

[PieBeast]

Smashing my most hated side is always good, so I'll leave it at that.

We wouldn't want to dampen the newly found optimistic mood of the board now would we