Moved Thread Ryan Schoenmakers - is now a premiership winning forward and has a 2 year contract extension

[mikeder]

He did not have to kick for goal. He just palmed it to Mathews and he did the rest.

"Martello the worst kick for goal in Hawthorn's history". You are of course kidding. I haven't the time to list all those who were worse.

Hey maybe you are right. He did miss a few from 100 meters out.

Ye, I have seen some bad kicks for goal over the last fifty something years

 

[Noneedforaname]

Excellent observation and comment. Couldn't have put it better myself. Couldn't believe I was watching the same side in action as the previous 3 weeks!

I'm happy to not read too much into it. Over the last month we've seen massive extremes in form from the top 4.

Freo playing un-Freo like, got smashed
Syds playing un Syds like, got smashed x 2
Hawks playing un-hawk like, still almost got over line
Weagles played ... below themselves and got the draw.

Tis the time of upsets and teams readying themselves for September.

 

[Hawks1994]

I'm happy to not read too much into it. Over the last month we've seen massive extremes in form from the top 4.

Freo playing un-Freo like, got smashed
Syds playing un Syds like, got smashed x 2
Hawks playing un-hawk like, still almost got over line
Weagles played ... below themselves and got the draw.

Tis the time of upsets and teams readying themselves for September.

It's always a strange time of the season rounds 14/15 through to round 19/20

 

[grumbleguts]

Knights kicked 201 goals and 138 behinds. Which is 5.929 goals for every 10 shots
Hendrie kicked 254 goals and 271 behinds. Which is 4.838 goals for every 10 shots
Holland kicked 239 goals and 157 behinds. Which is 6.035 goals for every 10 shots
Heath kicked 43 goals and 39 behinds. Which is 5.244 goals for every 10 shots

Further to this, by way of comparison
Matthews kicked 915 goals and 722 behinds. Which is 5.589 goals for every 10 shots
Hudson kicked 727 goals and 330 behinds. Which is 6.878 goals for every 10 shots
Dunstall kicked 1254 goals and 641 behinds. Which is 6.617 goals for every 10 shots
Moncrief kicked 629 goals and 366 behinds. Which is 6.322 goals for every 10 shots
Tuck kicked 427 goals and 268 behinds. Which is 6.144 goals for every 10 shots
Schoey kicked 23 goals and 10 behinds. Which is 6.97 goals for every 10 shots

Lord Mud of Glenferrie

 

[Gralin]

It's a pity out on the full isn't recorded as it would make a decent difference to some players numbers *cough* Richo and Buddy *cough*

 

[Ordovician]

Surely the coaching instruction is mark the bloody thing first, but if you can't mark it then don't let them !!

One might think so, but sadly that is not the case.

Ask any one who goes to trainering regularly e.g. 4P, Rusty etc., and they'll tell you that you can watch them practice the deliberate tap down when they can easily mark the ball and then see them apply it in the match simulations.

It is very old footy theory that dates back to the 50s from memory. It is the solution to the problem of what is the quickest way to score a goal. Answer: centre square bounce, ruckman taps to rover who kicks long and straight to the tall forward who taps to the crumber running past and bang, a goal in about 6 seconds.

 

[cryptor]

One might think so, but sadly that is not the case.

Ask any one who goes to trainering regularly e.g. 4P, Rusty etc., and they'll tell you that you can watch them practice the deliberate tap down when they can easily mark the ball and then see them apply it in the match simulations.

It is very old footy theory that dates back to the 50s from memory. It is the solution to the problem of what is the quickest way to score a goal. Answer: centre square bounce, ruckman taps to rover who kicks long and straight to the tall forward who taps to the crumber running past and bang, a goal in about 6 seconds.

Correction; the quickest way to score a goal from a centre bounce is Cyril Rioli flying through sharking the opposition rucks tap, taking a bounce and slotting it from 60 out on the run.

 

[Gordo17]

One might think so, but sadly that is not the case.

Ask any one who goes to trainering regularly e.g. 4P, Rusty etc., and they'll tell you that you can watch them practice the deliberate tap down when they can easily mark the ball and then see them apply it in the match simulations.

It is very old footy theory that dates back to the 50s from memory. It is the solution to the problem of what is the quickest way to score a goal. Answer: centre square bounce, ruckman taps to rover who kicks long and straight to the tall forward who taps to the crumber running past and bang, a goal in about 6 seconds.

I'm not sure whether u r defending Schoe's efforts alone here, or that of all our forwards. All I can add is your comments are questionable i.e. Hudson, Dunstall, Lockett et al. Quickest way to goal is a mark in the forward 50m. Always was and always will be.

If you are suggesting we are playing a deliberate tap game in the forward line because we can't take a contested mark then that's ok, however we aren't doing that so well either - Schoe included.

 

[Ordovician]

I'm not sure whether u r defending Schoe's efforts alone here, or that of all our forwards. All I can add is your comments are questionable i.e. Hudson, Dunstall, Lockett et al. Quickest way to goal is a mark in the forward 50m. Always was and always will be.

I am merely pointing out for the benefit of the readership here, what the tall target forwards like Shoey, Roughy and Hale are actually under instruction to do. If you don't want to believe this then you are perfectly free to do so.

The quickest way to score a goal is as exactly I have described above. If a forward takes a mark and goes back and has a set shot this adds another 15 to 20 seconds of consumed game time to the process.

The simple arithmetic is irrefutable.

The word "quickest" is the superlative form of the adjective "quick".

In this context "quickest" means "to do something in the shortest possible time".

What you are talking about with the Dunstall et al. example, might be the safest way to kick a goal, it might be the most effective way to kick a goal, but it is not the quickest way to score a goal as measured by the effluxion of time.

If you are suggesting we are playing a deliberate tap game in the forward line because we can't take a contested mark then that's ok, however we aren't doing that so well either - Schoe included.

I have not enquired of the coaching group why they are employing this tactic.

Given that the team has very good dangerous ground level crumbers like Rioli, Pops and Breust and forwards who aren't the strongest of contested marks, this provides a strong rationale for the tactic.

Additionally, it provides an interesting variation on the traditional kick-mark-goal to forward play and gives the defenders something to worrying about other than making the spoil and setting up for the clearance or a stoppage.

 

[HairyO]

What seems to amaze many here is that Schoey now seems to be a permanent fixture in the team despite all the bleatings of fans on this board and others who call for him being dropped.

Clearly Clarko is relying on his own stats and perceptions and not those of the fans.

I think his form is easily back to 2012 standard. Very much like the knee reco reset his development and he is improving again.

Much like Bailey and Suckling, would be great for him to get a flag. Even better if Whitecross can find a way back in - but we seem to be overloaded with midfielders / small forwards / small defenders.

 

[SodaPop]

One might think so, but sadly that is not the case.

Ask any one who goes to trainering regularly e.g. 4P, Rusty etc., and they'll tell you that you can watch them practice the deliberate tap down when they can easily mark the ball and then see them apply it in the match simulations.

The tigers were ready for this last week. The crumbs always seemed to fall to them.
I'm guessing this tactic is just for H&A games, we'll see a different tactic entering our forward line come finals.

 

[Great 2008]

Agree with both posts by Roger Rogerson and Ordivician.

Bringing the ball to ground for a runner in the manner of Martello to Mathews is a luxury this team cannot afford. Schoey ain't no Martello and as good as some of our players are none are in the same ball park as Mathews.

Just mark the bloody thing. Let the opposition try to bring the ball to ground. It is ridiculous all players in the contest are trying to do the same thing.

Remember watching pre-season training video reports and they were passing to Roughy who instead of marking was tapping it to the smalls running past. I recall thinking and hoping we did not see this in the season proper.

 

[Ordovician]

Remember watching pre-season training video reports and they were passing to Roughy who instead of marking was tapping it to the smalls running past. I recall thinking and hoping we did not see this in the season proper.

And yet your hopes were dashed ...

 

[Great 2008]

And yet your hopes were dashed ...

We are 3rd so it's not all bad.

 

[Ordovician]

The tigers were ready for this last week. The crumbs always seemed to fall to them.
I'm guessing this tactic is just for H&A games, we'll see a different tactic entering our forward line come finals.

Well they did their homework diligently.

It works best in space.

There was perfect example in the carltank game when we were kicking to the right of screen probably in the first. Schoey was leading towards the centre wing and Breust was running angled across his front towards the boundary side.Schoey jumped at put both arms the air as if to mark and just tapped the ball down to Bruest who continued running past the play.

When you see them doing this deep inside the F50 when a contested mark would suffice, it can be a little frustrating.

 

[Davo23]

Remember watching pre-season training video reports and they were passing to Roughy who instead of marking was tapping it to the smalls running past. I recall thinking and hoping we did not see this in the season proper.

We've done this for 2 years and it has won 2 premierships.

We've also got the best small forwards in the business, in fact, the best forward line in the league.

 

[TheFourPillars]

There is no doubt Richmond knew what we were going to do and i think most of the AFL does its no secret. However its our ability to hit up targets that makes the second part of the game plan so much more dangerous. We just weren't playing well enough to do that against Richmond

 

[tommyk72]

We've done this for 2 years and it has won 2 premierships.

We've also got the best small forwards in the business, in fact, the best forward line in the league.

Not just as individuals, but as a whole in both composition and cohesiveness. Hence our spread of goal kickers. Just need to not fail again with a < 70 point game...

 

[JD1992]

He also pinch hits in the Ruck when we sub Hale out a couple of times

 

[nickrebellious]

Been overseas for awhile and just finally got around to watching us smash Sydney. Schoey was massive in that. Set Gunston up twice in the first quarter. Got Luke Parker holding the ball. Crashed packs and got back in defence to spoil. Haven't seen any game in a while but he was really good.

 

[Great 2008]

We've done this for 2 years and it has won 2 premierships.

We've also got the best small forwards in the business, in fact, the best forward line in the league.

Well people should stop bagging Rough for going one handed it is obviously a set play.

 

[Pessimistic]

What seems to amaze many here is that Schoey now seems to be a permanent fixture in the team despite all the bleatings of fans on this board and others who call for him being dropped.

Clearly Clarko is relying on his own stats and perceptions and not those of the fans.

I think his form is easily back to 2012 standard. Very much like the knee reco reset his development and he is improving again.

Much like Bailey and Suckling, would be great for him to get a flag. Even better if Whitecross can find a way back in - but we seem to be overloaded with midfielders / small forwards / small defenders.

Clarko loves flexibility

 

[Pessimistic]

He also pinch hits in the Ruck when we sub Hale out a couple of times

Maybe long term plan is forward ruck ?

 

[TyHawk]

If we continue to look flat for the next two weeks, than I believe that Clarko will use only one ruckman. McElroy/cegs (either one) with rough and schoe (who hasn't looked too bad in the centre square because of his leap and timing) could be the go, so that we can add another runner to the mix. Wouldn't put it past Clarko.

 

[burner1]

As long as Shoey is playing moderately well I reckon he'll be in team. He just provides a heap of structural flexibility, including ability to cover a loss of a key tall down back (we lost 2+ games due to an early injury to a kpd). Means rough can go into middle, can cover a ruck etc.

He just needs to stick a few marks and he could easily kick a bag - which going into finals is great as provides another scoring option that teams have to cover.