Siege in Martin Place, Sydney

[Malifice]

And which alias are you?

A nuked one.

 

[Ashton Agar]

Did anyone just see that add for Channel 7?

cringed a little

Just saw it, it will be unmissable. The ad was eerily intriguing.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Just saw it, it will be unmissable. The ad was eerily intriguing.

I agree, but sometimes they just take things further than needed

 

[Ashton Agar]

I agree, but sometimes they just take things further than needed

I thought they did pretty well to draw in viewers, which is the point of ads. For me that bit where no one is in Martin Place and it is dead silent apart from the lockdown sirens hit me especially, but the whole ad was eerily intriguing.

Not that people wouldn't watch it anyway!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I thought they did pretty well to draw in viewers, which is the point of ads. For me that bit where no one is in Martin Place and it is dead silent apart from the lockdown sirens hit me especially, but the whole ad was eerily intriguing.

Not that people wouldn't watch it anyway!

Do you know when it's on?

 

[Ashton Agar]

Do you know when it's on?

Not sure, I think I read somewhere its on February 1.

 

[Ashton Agar]

For those that haven't seen the ad.

 

[Whit3y]

so the woman victim was indeed shot by the police

why couldnt they just come out and say so

 

[Admiral Byng]

so the woman victim was indeed shot by the police

why couldnt they just come out and say so

No.

 

[little graham]

so the woman victim was indeed shot by the police

why couldnt they just come out and say so

Wasn't there an unexplained round of gunfire a fair bit after this dickhead took 11 rounds to the head? Wanted to be sure it wasn't ricochets from that?

 

[Gough]

Just unlucky by the sounds of it, first she's there in the first place and then she cops a fragment in the femoral artery. Poor lass.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Wasn't there an unexplained round of gunfire a fair bit after this dickhead took 11 rounds to the head? Wanted to be sure it wasn't ricochets from that?

From memory it was flash bangs not gunfire

 

[Whit3y]

No.

ok

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

I'm more and more uneasy about the police response after reading some coverage of the first day of the inquest.

First they fired 22 shots in a crowded room.

Second, why were they using M4A1 carbines (rifle bullets)
rather than, as is typically the case in hostage rescue type situations, MP5 sub machine guns (9mm pistol bullets) given the way higher potential for ricochets from a heavier rifle bullet?? Bear in mind they knew he just had a shot gun.

I'm really not trying to have a crack at them, but I just really don't see any evidence they behaved appropriately and plenty of indications that they may not have.

 

[Lester Burnham]

so the woman victim was indeed shot by the police

why couldnt they just come out and say so

Because it doesn't fit with the police/media narrative of evil bad guy vs good professional guys who will save us. It was clear that the police shot the hostage but the story was being controlled.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Because it doesn't fit with the police/media narrative of evil bad guy vs good professional guys who will save us. It was clear that the police shot the hostage but the story was being controlled.

No.

 

[Lester Burnham]

No.

If you haven't got any meaningful to say then * off.

 

[Admiral Byng]

If you haven't got any meaningful to say then **** off.

(sigh)

There is no suggestion she was shot by police. Just that she was killed by the ricochet of bullet fragments hitting a hard surface like marble.

It may have been one of the very same bullets that inflicted a fatal wound on the dickhead and passed out the other side of his body, hit a marble wall, split into fragments which sprayed everywhere, one of which unluckily struck her artery.

That's a long way away from being "shot by police" as if they just burst in with the old "kill everyone and let God sort them out" approach.

Why can't you be a bit more discerning and tempered in your approach before you blame the police for everything?

 

[Maggie5]

The only real blame that can be attributed is to the madman that held them hostage.
You then perhaps talk about 'mistakes' that may have been made.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

I'm more and more uneasy about the police response after reading some coverage of the first day of the inquest.

First they fired 22 shots in a crowded room.

Second, why were they using M4A1 carbines (rifle bullets)
rather than, as is typically the case in hostage rescue type situations, MP5 sub machine guns (9mm pistol bullets) given the way higher potential for ricochets from a heavier rifle bullet?? Bear in mind they knew he just had a shot gun.

I'm really not trying to have a crack at them, but I just really don't see any evidence they behaved appropriately and plenty of indications that they may not have.

That's why breaches are a last resort, their messy.

Also our Cops moved on from MP5's a while ago, it's an issue of militarisation of police. Essentially our cops ended up with that platform due to a number of factors.

A) big Boys toys logic
B) post Iraq surplus M4A1 are cheap as chips and are being actively marketed to law enforcement.
C) desire to base operations around a multipurpose platform to keep costs lower, eg: vest or no vest M4A1 can take the target down.

this frees up room in the budget to by those ridiculous armoured vehicles they need in case "stuff happens"

As usual dickheads at the top, making decisions have a flow on effect.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

That's why breaches are a last resort, their messy.

Also our Cops moved on from MP5's a while ago, it's an issue of militarisation of police. Essentially our cops ended up with that platform due to a number of factors.

A) big Boys toys logic
B) post Iraq surplus M4A1 are cheap as chips and are being actively marketed to law enforcement.
C) desire to base operations around a multipurpose platform to keep costs lower, eg: vest or no vest M4A1 can take the target down.

this frees up room in the budget to by those ridiculous armoured vehicles they need in case "stuff happens"

As usual dickheads at the top, making decisions have a flow on effect.

So why not use the SAS hostage rescue teams, which are trained with MP5s?

 

[Mofra]

I'm more and more uneasy about the police response after reading some coverage of the first day of the inquest.

First they fired 22 shots in a crowded room.

At that rate of fire, 22 shots may have been only 3 or 4 short trigger pulls.
The first time I went full auto I was very surprised at how quickly a 30 round magazine actually lasted in just a couple of bursts. If anything I'd say 22 rounds is quite light for a multi-person entry into a room

 

[Gough]

I think when something like this happens that's so out of the blue and unlike anything seen before mistakes happen because there really is no practical training for the situation, hopeful errors can be identified and learnt from.

 

[Lester Burnham]

(sigh)

There is no suggestion she was shot by police. Just that she was killed by the ricochet of bullet fragments hitting a hard surface like marble.

It may have been one of the very same bullets that inflicted a fatal wound on the dickhead and passed out the other side of his body, hit a marble wall, split into fragments which sprayed everywhere, one of which unluckily struck her artery.

That's a long way away from being "shot by police" as if they just burst in with the old "kill everyone and let God sort them out" approach.

Why can't you be a bit more discerning and tempered in your approach before you blame the police for everything?

Why didn't you say this instead of being a smart arse?

There was a post mortem carried out on Katrina Dawson within 2 days of her death. It would have been crystal clear at that stage that the six bullets or bullet fragments came from police weapons. Yet the media has been running with the story that Monis killed her. What was the source of that story? Why did the police not correct it?

http://www.news.com.au/national/syd...s-bullets-report/story-fncynjr2-1227161070113

That's not to apportion any blame on the police for her death. Though as mentioned by a couple of other posters, the choice of weapon used by the police may have contributed to it.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

At that rate of fire, 22 shots may have been only 3 or 4 short trigger pulls.
The first time I went full auto I was very surprised at how quickly a 30 round magazine actually lasted in just a couple of bursts. If anything I'd say 22 rounds is quite light for a multi-person entry into a room

Agree but that would raise other questions, ie why fire on auto? Interestingly from the footage of the French TRG equivalent at the supermarket siege they seemed to be largely using pistols and firing semi automatic.

The cops had a whole day to think about choice of weapons, they had good intel on how the gunman was armed from hostages and presumably no suggestion he was wearing protective gear.

It seems kind of counterintuitive that on one hand they ruled out a sniper shot because of the risk of richochets, but on the other hand their contingency plan for entering involved lots of high powered rifle shots in a confined space.

I also really really don't think you can say this was a shock to them or something they've never had to deal with before. Hostage situations are not uncommon, and swat units basically train continuously for this kind of situation, it's not unreasonable to expect them to make very very good decisions.