Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Gough]

I'd like to know what else the Italians can do? They are so close to mainland Africa that there are very different circumstances in play,
to compare to the Australian situation shows at the very least a poor knowledge of geography.

 

[mottrain]

Why does Chief allow you to post on here?

Because he has disagreed with your view?

 

[Floor Pie]

Because he has disagreed with your view?

Over your head, at speed!

 

[Xsess]

Why does Chief allow you to post on here?

Perhaps he agrees the Greens have no credibility on this issue. Perhaps he agrees their media exposure on this subject is out of kilter with the reality of their failed policies and fringe electoral appeal. Perhaps you should mount a better argument instead of running to the mods.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Perhaps he agrees the Greens have no credibility on this issue. Perhaps he agrees their media exposure on this subject is out of kilter with the reality of their failed policies and fringe electoral appeal. Perhaps you should mount a better argument instead of running to the mods.

Running to the mods? I didn't report your post, just invited Chief to comment. He likes this board.

As to your question - I hardly ever hear anything from the Greens. I monitor Twitter and refresh Google News every hour and I can't recall the last time I saw the Greens even get mentioned. Are they over-indexing on share of voice? Not in my media.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Because he has disagreed with your view?

Yes, that would be it.

Or not.

 

[GuruJane]

Waiting for you to define "not terrific'.
Prefer to be my way although it can be learned.

Maggie - "not terrific" was Jiska's term not mine. Okay?
Ask him what it means, not me.
Reading posts more attentively might help too.

 

[Maggie5]

Maggie - "not terrific" was Jiska's term not mine. Okay?
Ask him what it means, not me.
Reading posts more attentively might help too.

Fair enough, couldn't find it.

 

[Max zero]

My money's already been grabbed. So has yours, possibly. It's called taxation. I pay it. How it's spent after that is up for debate one might think. Can you explain to me the benefits of a Collins class submarine?

My understanding of economics stands to be challenged. Go for your life. A million dollars? Firstly, the government doesn't have it and wouldn't borrow it. Hell, $10K stimulus nearly sent us broke didn't it? Secondly, many would view it as an investment opportunity (define 'spent') and purchase property. That's in no way related to the social security net, where the potential for leakage through savings and investment is very low. Social welfare dollars by & large contribute directly to GDP in the form of consumer spending through general retail.

Consumer spending does not drive s**t. Keynesian nonsense. Spend your way forward!

Its the same reason we don't set the minimum wage to a $100 an hour. Increased consumption without the increased productivity simply leads to inflation. Its why Australia has one of the highest minimum wages in the world but are they comparitively twice as well off the someone on the minimum wage of France, Germany or Canada?

Just for the record I didn't support the Collins class submarine. We would of be far better off buying a cheaper and better off the shelf option. Pointless busywork and vote buying in South Australia.

 

[Max zero]

There's 'Open Door' and there's 'Fair Share'. Fair Share based upon what we could actually accommodate & afford. It wouldn't be overly difficult for a few modestly intelligent bureaucrats to work this out.

Don't ease up on your sentiments now mate. You don't want to change it because it might affect your quality of life. Looking out for numero uno.

Actually I am looking out for the best interests for Australia. Its not in Australia's best interest to take a larger share of asylum seekers or in a number of other matters.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Consumer spending does not drive s**t. Keynesian nonsense. Spend your way forward!

Its the same reason we don't set the minimum wage to a $100 an hour. Increased consumption without the increased productivity simply leads to inflation. Its why Australia has one of the highest minimum wages in the world but are they comparitively twice as well off the someone on the minimum wage of France, Germany or Canada?

Just for the record I didn't support the Collins class submarine. We would of be far better off buying a cheaper and better off the shelf option. Pointless busywork and vote buying in South Australia.

Let me rephrase the question then. Can you detail the benefit that Australians derive from submarines? Or Fighter Jets for that matter?

As for the rest of it, yep, sorry, but Keynes keeps on keeping on. Consumer spending is at the heart of our economy, and the social welfare network works. I'm happy with wage growth in line with productivity, and it would appear that the standard of living for ordinary Australians is still pretty good:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...-wage-em-really-em-stacks-up-globally/279258/

Now you obviously consider that our social welfare network is too generous, and would support the Fed Govt in dismantling it as this would be better for you, personally, assuming that you have an income and pay taxes. I wonder whether you would be concerned if this story was about a fellow Australian?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/n...sequences-of-one-dangerous-decision.html?_r=0

 

[Brown Bottle]

Actually I am looking out for the best interests for Australia. Its not in Australia's best interest to take a larger share of asylum seekers or in a number of other matters.

I'm Australian and you're not representing my best interests. Not in the slightest. Stick to speaking for yourself mate.

 

[Max zero]

Let me rephrase the question then. Can you detail the benefit that Australians derive from submarines? Or Fighter Jets for that matter?

As for the rest of it, yep, sorry, but Keynes keeps on keeping on. Consumer spending is at the heart of our economy, and the social welfare network works. I'm happy with wage growth in line with productivity, and it would appear that the standard of living for ordinary Australians is still pretty good:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...-wage-em-really-em-stacks-up-globally/279258/

Now you obviously consider that our social welfare network is too generous, and would support the Fed Govt in dismantling it as this would be better for you, personally, assuming that you have an income and pay taxes. I wonder whether you would be concerned if this story was about a fellow Australian?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/n...sequences-of-one-dangerous-decision.html?_r=0

Asylum seekers are just not net economic positive. They cost money. Now if we only take small amounts: fine, we can spare some charity. But any large scale program is just going to be a bigger drain.

You want a sad story?

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/death-of-manufacturing-nothing-to-whine-about-20140415-zquwd.html
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...e-australian-car-industry-20140221-3367i.html
http://www.e-fab.com.au/post_catego... steel industry can’t compete with china.html

Just from a 1 minute search.

Can you guess why we are struggling? We simply cannot compete. Now if local industry does collapse how do you expect us to keep paying for the welfare system? I am simply pointing out that a generous welfare system is incompatible with a generous immigration scheme. You can't have both. A welfare scheme needs someone to pay into the system.

You are thinking with your heart and not your head.

Keynesian ways are foolish. Spend your way out of debt? An economy based on perpetual and accelerating growth and consumption? An entire financial system based on debt?

I am not the biggest fan of military spending. Especially some of the decision recent and current governments have made. One poor spending decision does not justify another however.

 

[crackerjack4X4]

So were white men. When are you planning to leave?

I'm here for the long haul. My heritage is Maori mixed with English, Irish so I'm not a pure white. My wife is 5th generation white aussie and has no ambition to move to my home town in NZ

 

[Max zero]

I'm Australian and you're not representing my best interests. Not in the slightest. Stick to speaking for yourself mate.

Seems I speak for most though.

 

[Gough]

Seems I speak for most though.

Congratulations Max, you're a legend in your own mind, standing up for the disenfranchised white man, you go girl.

 

[Max zero]

Congratulations Max, you're a legend in your own mind, standing up for the disenfranchised white man, you go girl.

Says the white boy sitting on the Internet in a 1st world country.

 

[smokingjacket]

I'm here for the long haul. My heritage is Maori mixed with English, Irish so I'm not a pure white. My wife is 5th generation white aussie and has no ambition to move to my home town in NZ

Despite what right wing columnists would have you believe, we of the left don't consider - I'm not completely white so I'm allowed to be a bigot - a valid argument.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Seems I speak for most though.

You might have missed 2007, when you would have been speaking for very few. I wonder if Rupert sat back and patted himself on the back as Bennelong fell? It's funny how just occasionally Rupert reads the mood of the electorate and changes our Government. Usually there's a strong association with further relaxation of media control laws which the governing party, for whatever reason, didn't seem to support. But hey, I'll bet you were all over Tampa and children in detention back then. Now you're an adult though, right?

So, it's a shame you're not a bit older, because you might have spared us the social disintegration associated with the arrival of Brits, Scots, Irish, Greeks, Italians, Germans (!)... oh wait, they were all European so maybe that was ok? What about China and Vietnam? India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka? Or maybe Lebanon? OMG Lebanon's in the middle East!!! Any Sudanese in Perth currently impacting on your standard of living mate?

 

[Max zero]

You might have missed 2007, when you would have been speaking for very few. I wonder if Rupert sat back and patted himself on the back as Bennelong fell? It's funny how just occasionally Rupert reads the mood of the electorate and changes our Government. Usually there's a strong association with further relaxation of media control laws which the governing party, for whatever reason, didn't seem to support. But hey, I'll bet you were all over Tampa and children in detention back then. Now you're an adult though, right?

So, it's a shame you're not a bit older, because you might have spared us the social disintegration associated with the arrival of Brits, Scots, Irish, Greeks, Italians, Germans (!)... oh wait, they were all European so maybe that was ok? What about China and Vietnam? India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka? Or maybe Lebanon? OMG Lebanon's in the middle East!!! Any Sudanese in Perth currently impacting on your standard of living mate?

Yes thats right its all a News Corp conspiracy.

 

[smokingjacket]

Mate you can do whatever you want with your money. Its when you start grabbing others that I have a problem.

Your understanding of economics is limited to say the least.

No consumption does not lead to growth. If it did why doesn't the government give everyone a million dollors with the rule that it must be spent? Because consumption does not drive real growth. Real growth comes from improvements in productivity and capital investment.

You've changed your definition mid sentence here. Whilst I would agree that population growth without the structural underpinnings of an economy that can handle it is a sort of pyramid scheme it does lead to growth. Population growth leads to greater demand, that is irrefutable. You can't then say oh it doesn't lead to growth because it doesn't lead to "real" growth. They're two completely different arguments.

You owe Brown Bottle an apology for saying he had a limited understanding of economics because the Treasury would and has said the exact same thing before.

Demand in the Australian economy during the downturn is likely to have been supported by continued strong population growth. In the context of a negative global demand shock, strong population growth helps to reduce excess capacity by filling in the demand gap. As population rises, demand for goods and services rises irrespective of whether people are actually in employment (that is, irrespective of whether the supply-side expands).

Population growth added close to 1.6 percentage points to cumulative GDP growth over the September quarter 2008, December quarter 2008 and March quarter 2009 — the three quarters of global contraction — and a further 1.3 percentage points over the subsequent three quarters.

http://www.treasury.gov.au/Publicat...-Issue-2/Report/Part-1-Reasons-for-resilience

Thankfully in the case of Australia well managed population growth can actually vastly improve productivity as the biggest problems in the countries economy, environment and politics since colonization have been associated with a lack of population, rather than excess.

 

[crackerjack4X4]

Despite what right wing columnists would have you believe, we of the left don't consider - I'm not completely white so I'm allowed to be a bigot - a valid argument.

Meh....DILLIGAF

 

[Brown Bottle]

Asylum seekers are just not net economic positive. They cost money. Now if we only take small amounts: fine, we can spare some charity. But any large scale program is just going to be a bigger drain.

They cost money if they're on TPVs or in detention mate. That's when they can't contribute or pay their own way.

You want a sad story?

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/death-of-manufacturing-nothing-to-whine-about-20140415-zquwd.html
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...e-australian-car-industry-20140221-3367i.html
http://www.e-fab.com.au/post_category-articles_item-a growing crisis…the australian steel industry can’t compete with china.html

Just from a 1 minute search.

We're competing in a global marketplace mate. Did you miss that? I remember something about us becoming a 'clever country' that drove productivity through innovation and focused on service industries, but then, that can't be true because now we don't even believe in Science. Maybe God will spare these industries? I'm sure the LNP are all praying for it.

Can you guess why we are struggling? We simply cannot compete. Now if local industry does collapse how do you expect us to keep paying for the welfare system? I am simply pointing out that a generous welfare system is incompatible with a generous immigration scheme. You can't have both. A welfare scheme needs someone to pay into the system.

You are thinking with your heart and not your head.

Keynesian ways are foolish. Spend your way out of debt? An economy based on perpetual and accelerating growth and consumption? An entire financial system based on debt?

I am not the biggest fan of military spending. Especially some of the decision recent and current governments have made. One poor spending decision does not justify another however.

I don't think you invested enough time in studying Keynes mate. Perhaps you should do some more reading? Is it a coincidence that the best business schools still rely on Keynes as the cornerstone of the Economic theory that they teach?

Anyway, it's not a battle between heart and head. The simple fact is that there are millions of displaced people looking for a home (many of them, in part, due to the militaristic actions of our nation and its allies) and we should accept some responsibility. Basic economics teaches us about trade-offs. I'm prepared to cash out of submarines and fighter jets so that we can meet some of our obligations (or in LNP speak, stop being ******* leaners).

 

[Brown Bottle]

Yes thats right its all a News Corp conspiracy.

There are none so blind... maybe go back and check the front page of the Daily Tele through 2007 mate, and tell me what it reminds you of? How did you vote in 2007?

Nothing to add about the irreparable damage that has been done to Australian society by all of those diverse ethnicities that have flooded in over the last 60 or 70 years mate?

 

[Brown Bottle]

You owe Brown Bottle an apology for saying he had a limited understanding of economics because the Treasury would and has said the exact same thing before.

Conservatives hate Keynes. They've just never successfully discredited him. I think it eats away at them.