Certified Legendary Thread Sympathy for *essendon - congratulations on '16 Wooden Spoon (RIP The Scales)

[astrovic]

Yes, this has been done to death (of course) on the HTB. It's in the AFL's discretion - and they have already basically said they won't come back at the club again. Of course they should, especially because Little was such a smartarse insisting that any reference to drugs was removed from the original agreed penalties, but I don't think anyone really expects them to.

It does seem the AFL are indicating that they've "punished * enough".

But given how much of a political animal the AFL is, it will be interesting to see whether or not it will stick to that line if the tribunal rubs out the *34.

I imagine there will be significant pressure on the AFL to whack * again, even though the AFL was keen to only do it once (last year). And given how the AFL twists and turns like a....twisty turny thing...who knows what they will end up doing? At the very least, we will get to enjoy extra bonus overtime schadenfreude while they wrap themselves in knots over it

 

[Jade]

Out of interest you crazy, goofy kids, what do you think would be an appropriate penalty (assuming you don't think the existing whack was enough)?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Out of interest you crazy, goofy kids, what do you think would be an appropriate penalty (assuming you don't think the existing whack was enough)?

What whack, for the club, you wouldn't expect a great deal more unless players sue. Players 18 month bans all around.

 

[DesertRoo]

Out of interest you crazy, goofy kids, what do you think would be an appropriate penalty (assuming you don't think the existing whack was enough)?

Two years for the drug cheats. And a lifetime of laughing at your shitty club.

 

[Jade]

What whack, for the club, you wouldn't expect a great deal more unless players sue. Players 18 month bans all around.

Dude WTF is with the insanely hot german chick.... I get about halfway through your post and.....

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Dude WTF is with the insanely hot german chick.... I get about halfway through your post and.....

Verena Stangl, 2013 German Playmate of the Year.

 

[Jade]

Verena Stangl, 2013 German Playmate of the Year.

I love Google. Don't you love Google?

 

[Only Forwards]

Out of interest you crazy, goofy kids, what do you think would be an appropriate penalty (assuming you don't think the existing whack was enough)?

I think that bargaining power for being complicit to the process should be gone.

How can you get reductions based on being cooperative when it's been dragged through every court possible specifically arguing about the process undertaken.

I think 6 months in season is a massive penalty for the players some of whom I legitimately believe fall into a category of being unaware. If they were 18 and just happy to be playing I expect less from them. Your leaders should have taken it upon themselves to check the substances in this 'on the edge' program.

If they take a carte blanche approach I think 12 months total is about the most appropriate.

I will be happy when he hands back the brownlow while he keeps it the award remains tainted.

 

[Mav]

Havent the AFL handed down punishment for poor governance only? If players get banned then the club is going to have to cop punishment for systematic doping of 34 scumbags.

As for the AFLPA they have lost the plot. They are spending all their time looking after the interests of 34 players. They should be looking after the interests of the other 700 players by making sure the cheats amongst their ranks get the punishment they deserve.

 

[LT Smash]

Out of interest you crazy, goofy kids, what do you think would be an appropriate penalty (assuming you don't think the existing whack was enough)?

A season playing for no points would be about evens.

 

[Jade]

I think that bargaining power for being complicit to the process should be gone.

How can you get reductions based on being cooperative when it's been dragged through every court possible specifically arguing about the process undertaken.

The answer there would seem fairly obvious, that was not of the players doing.

I think 6 months in season is a massive penalty for the players some of whom I legitimately believe fall into a category of being unaware. If they were 18 and just happy to be playing I expect less from them. Your leaders should have taken it upon themselves to check the substances in this 'on the edge' program.

If they take a carte blanche approach I think 12 months total is about the most appropriate.

I will be happy when he hands back the brownlow while he keeps it the award remains tainted.

Why?

I know there was an absolute frenzy re: Jobe in 2013 - but after all the reporting and frothing, what the players stand accused of being administered offered no performance enhancing benefits.

 

[Jade]

Havent the AFL handed down punishment for poor governance only? If players get banned then the club is going to have to cop punishment for systematic doping of 34 scumbags.

Interesting. Do you think 34 players doped?

As for the AFLPA they have lost the plot. They are spending all their time looking after the interests of 34 players. They should be looking after the interests of the other 700 players by making sure the cheats amongst their ranks get the punishment they deserve.

Ha ha ha - be a poor player representative eh?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I love Google. Don't you love Google?

Its helped my relationship with Jennifer Lawrence over the last month and a half.

 

[LT Smash]

Interesting. Do you think 34 players doped?
?

34 dopes failed to ask the most important question of the appropriate authority.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

A thousand season's playing for no points in the VFL would be about evens.

Harsh, but fair.

 

[Jade]

Its helped my relationship with Jennifer Lawrence over the last month and a half.

I've been told I have to feel bad about that.

But I don't.

 

[ShinbonerBaz]

Why?

I know there was an absolute frenzy re: Jobe in 2013 - but after all the reporting and frothing, what the players stand accused of being administered offered no performance enhancing benefits.

I'll have a crack at this. Is it because it is a banned substance?

 

[muttley45]

Interesting little tidbit in The Age today that I had completely forgotten about.

"Under the WADA code, if two more more players from one team are found guilty of a doping violation, the ruling body "shall" impose sanctions on the team.

Does this mean that if any 2 of Ryder, Monfries, Crameri, Prismall etc do a deal and therefore admit guilt, team sanctions are inevitable ??

 

[GarnerSmash]

Does this mean that if any 2 of Ryder, Monfries, Crameri, Prismall etc do a deal and therefore admit guilt, team sanctions are inevitable ??

There is no inevitability to team sanctions. That is at the discretion of the AFL. They however run the risk of a WADA appeal to CAS if they choose not to apply team sanctions if two or more players from * are found guilty of doping.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Out of interest you crazy, goofy kids, what do you think would be an appropriate penalty (assuming you don't think the existing whack was enough)?

I'll settle for 12 months suspension for the *players, minimum 4 years + jail time for *Hird and life ban + jail time for Dank.

Cheers

 

[Jade]

I'll settle for 12 months suspension for the *players, minimum 4 years + jail time for *Hird and life ban + jail time for Dank.

Cheers

Holy *! What for?

 

[GarnerSmash]

If found guilty of doping:

I reckon the players for the most part were doe eye eejits but that should provide them with no defence for their inaction. They are educated well enough these days to question what substances they are given to know that what Dank was doing was not the norm. 1 year minimum.

As for *, well, all associated with the program should be banned from sports for life. Look at it this way:

*Hird - He and Corcoran decided that * were well behind other clubs in relation to supplement usage and engaged in research throughout 2011 to determine what the environment looked like. He passed on an article on a particular substance (co-authored by Stephen Dank) to a then employed and fully qualified staffer in the field to get feedback. This staffer advised that the research was flakey at best and side effects were not fully understood. His reaction to this was to email this to Corcoran and say "See what we are up against?", to which Corcoran replied "Some people just can't learn any more", or something along those lines. This clearly indicates that *Hird was looking to take supplement usage to a new, unprecedented level at *.

*Hird, under the advice from Thompson, agreed to engage Dean Robinson outside normal recruitment processes. *Hird, under advise from Robinson, agreed to hire Dank outside the normal recruitment process. They all then met with Shane Charters (*hirdy's old mate from his playing days), a convicted drug trafficker and known steroid aficionado to discuss setting up a supplement program. Robinson and Dank were given free reign to do as they pleased from that point in Nov 11, until Feb 2012, until Doc Reid then decided that he was not happy with the freedom Dank had been granted. Until this point no checks were put in place and no process was initiated. Even after this point the agreed protocol's were ignored until at least August 2012.

These facts show that the environment that Hird and Corcoran initiated and had oversight over was so shoddy, was filled with shifty quasi-sports scientists and has led to the highly likely doping of athletes that none of these people should be let anywhere near a sporting organisation again. And this is ignoring the fact that *Hird allowed himself to be injected with banned substances on site at Windy Hill for the purpose of vanity. Anson Cameron has a wonderful quote on the mindset of someone who would do that. Check out LT Smash's sig.

As for the * itself, no points for the next commencing season, no National Draft picks for 2 years, $10 million fine.

 

[Only Forwards]

The answer there would seem fairly obvious, that was not of the players doing.

I think 6 months in season is a massive penalty for the players some of whom I legitimately believe fall into a category of being unaware. If they were 18 and just happy to be playing I expect less from them. Your leaders should have taken it upon themselves to check the substances in this 'on the edge' program.

If they take a carte blanche approach I think 12 months total is about the most appropriate.



Why?

I know there was an absolute frenzy re: Jobe in 2013 - but after all the reporting and frothing, what the players stand accused of being administered offered no performance enhancing benefits.

Nah they chose to stick with the organisation. For me that says they agreed with the appeal.

If jobe had put his hand up came out and said 'there is a cloud over the 2012 season and until it is cleared up I will hand my brownlow to the AFL for them to hold.'

I'd at least respect him for it.

It's not an admission of guilt it is recognition of the situation.

If he cheated whether he knowingly did or not is irrelevant. He cheated it has to be handed back.

 

[Jade]

If found guilty of doping:

I reckon the players for the most part were doe eye eejits but that should provide them with no defence for their inaction. They are educated well enough these days to question what substances they are given to know that what Dank was doing was not the norm. 1 year minimum.

After all the bluster, the one substance they stand accused of taking is one they had no way of knowing they were being administered - that is, they were never told they were receiving TB4.

As for *, well, all associated with the program should be banned from sports for life. Look at it this way:

*Hird - He and Corcoran decided that * were well behind other clubs in relation to supplement usage and engaged in research throughout 2011 to determine what the environment looked like. He passed on an article on a particular substance (co-authored by Stephen Dank) to a then employed and fully qualified staffer in the field to get feedback. This staffer advised that the research was flakey at best and side effects were not fully understood. His reaction to this was to email this to Corcoran and say "See what we are up against?", to which Corcoran replied "Some people just can't learn any more", or something along those lines. This clearly indicates that *Hird was looking to take supplement usage to a new, unprecedented level at *.

Agreed on all counts here.

Also why doesn't Corcoran get a *?

*Hird, under the advice from Thompson, agreed to engage Dean Robinson outside normal recruitment processes. *Hird, under advise from Robinson, agreed to hire Dank outside the normal recruitment process. They all then met with Shane Charters (*hirdy's old mate from his playing days), a convicted drug trafficker and known steroid aficionado to discuss setting up a supplement program. Robinson and Dank were given free reign to do as they pleased from that point in Nov 11, until Feb 2012, until Doc Reid then decided that he was not happy with the freedom Dank had been granted. Until this point no checks were put in place and no process was initiated. Even after this point the agreed protocol's were ignored until at least August 2012.

Noooooo not agreed at all.

These facts show that the environment that Hird and Corcoran initiated and had oversight over was so shoddy, was filled with shifty quasi-sports scientists and has led to the highly likely doping of athletes that none of these people should be let anywhere near a sporting organisation again. And this is ignoring the fact that *Hird allowed himself to be injected with banned substances on site at Windy Hill for the purpose of vanity. Anson Cameron has a wonderful quote on the mindset of someone who would do that. Check out LT Smash's sig.

Nah not highly likely at all. In fact, I'm starting to lean towards highly unlikely.

As for the * itself, no points for the next commencing season, no National Draft picks for 2 years, $10 million fine.

$10m eh? What made you come up with that figure?

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Holy ****! What for?

If the details surrounding the AOD project are true and the players were not made fully aware that they were guinea pigs for this trial or the possible side effects etc as is standard for any participants of a medical trial, then I'm pretty sure it is against the law.

Add to that the assertion from some of the flogs on your board that the *players were possibly duped and given something that was different to what they were told. That is also illegal.

Given the known text messages between *Hird and *Dank discussing what was to be given to players as well as the "financials for the AOD project" it is reasonable to assume that *Hird was at least compliant in the whole thing so he should be accountable. Same would go for *Evans. As for *Dank, it is his profession and he should know better.

Hope that helps