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Funny bit where Tone talks up the 'boost'( to 2!) in females in the cabinet and how they appoint people on merit. Crikey, if Sussan Leys isn't more talented than Brandis, Abetz, Hockey, Pyne, Johnston, I will be pretty surprised. One would expect that in a cabinet of such underwhelming calibre, they could have squeezed her in. Its not like there are outstanding pollies keeping the females out-just dud after dud after dud. And if Tone's initial assessment was correct and she is behind those chaps in ability, well woe is us. ;)
 
romeoh said:
Funny bit where Tone talks up the 'boost'( to 2!) in females in the cabinet and how they appoint people on merit. Crikey, if Sussan Leys isn't more talented than Brandis, Abetz, Hockey, Pyne, Johnston, I will be pretty surprised. One would expect that in a cabinet of such underwhelming calibre, they could have squeezed her in. Its not like there are outstanding pollies keeping the females out-just dud after dud after dud. And if Tone's initial assessment was correct and she is behind those chaps in ability, well woe is us. ;)
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I have toe fungus that's more talented than Brandis, Abetz, Hockey, Pyne, Johnston...
 

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romeoh said:
Women are up to the job in most other fields-just not Tone's. Go figure.
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Who are the women in the Liberal Party which through their experience and skills are demanding a position as Minister?

Julie Bishop
Sussan Ley
Michaelia Cash (Assistant Minister)
???
 
kfc1 said:
Who are the women in the Liberal Party which through their experience and skills are demanding a position as Minister?

Julie Bishop
Sussan Ley
Michaelia Cash (Assistant Minister)
???
Click to expand...
Who knows? Can you tell me what you know of the men in the outer ministry etc ? Can you tell me what you knew about the experience and skills of all the males in the cabinet before they were given portfolios? Can you tell me what you know about the experience and skills of them now, let alone beforehand?
Apart from certain specific careers, it is actually common these days to have a fairly even spread of the genders in many fields. As I see no reasonable barrier to a female being in government, then I take it that there are plenty of capable women in the lib ranks who have the experience and skills.
 
romeoh said:
Who knows?
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Well there's my answer.

romeoh said:
As I see no reasonable barrier to a female being in government, then I take it that there are plenty of capable women in the lib ranks who have the experience and skills.
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Working on rhetoric doesn't get you real answers.

My suggestion is don't claim or imply sexism in ministerial appointments if you have no idea what you're talking about. I might take you seriously if you could outline a few female Lib MPs that are being denied a fair opportunity based on their skills and experience.
 
kfc1 said:
Well there's my answer.


Working on rhetoric doesn't get you real answers.

My suggestion is don't claim or imply sexism in ministerial appointments if you have no idea what you're talking about. I might take you seriously if you could outline a few female Lib MPs that are being denied a fair opportunity based on their skills and experience.
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And I would suggest to you that your attitude carries with it an embedded attitude that is discriminatory.
I don't have to give you the names-the expectation is that if there are a number of capable men, then there are just as many capable women.
Go ahead-tell me how many of the ministers did you have knowledge of beforehand-and did you ask that question about them?
 
romeoh said:
And I would suggest to you that your attitude carries with it an embedded attitude that is discriminatory.
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In what way? You are claiming that female MPs are not being discriminated against when Tony is selecting the cabinet. The onus is on you to provide some evidence for your claims - e.g. who are these female MPs that are missing out?

romeoh said:
I don't have to give you the names-the expectation is that if there are a number of capable men, then there are just as many capable women.
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Your rhetoric doesn't match reality. Your statement makes about as much sense as saying that if there are a number of capable male cricketers, then there are just as many female cricketers and therefore females are discriminated against when selecting the Australian team (assuming it was a mixed team).

romeoh said:
Go ahead-tell me how many of the ministers did you have knowledge of beforehand-and did you ask that question about them?
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Most of them as they were shadow ministers. I certainly do ask the question of some of them.
 
kfc1 said:
In what way? You are claiming that female MPs are not being discriminated against when Tony is selecting the cabinet. The onus is on you to provide some evidence for your claims - e.g. who are these female MPs that are missing out?


Your rhetoric doesn't match reality. Your statement makes about as much sense as saying that if there are a number of capable male cricketers, then there are just as many female cricketers and therefore females are discriminated against when selecting the Australian team (assuming it was a mixed team).


Most of them as they were shadow ministers. I certainly do ask the question of some of them.
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Nope-the onus is not on me-unless the lib/nat parties have far fewer women in their ranks (in contrast to any 'normal profession these days) then the number should be far more similar.
Do you know numbers for the gender split in the political ranks of those parties? I am just making a reasonable assumption that the political career path reflects our society. If it doesn't then maybe there are more males but not 1/19 sort of numbers. Not 2/20 sort of numbers. If there is a great disparity between the gender numbers in those parties, then that also tells us something already doesn't it?
 
romeoh said:
Nope-the onus is not on me
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Well then there's no point conversing with you if you're just going to make claims and not bother to back them up.

romeoh said:
-unless the lib/nat parties have far fewer women in their ranks (in contrast to any 'normal profession these days) then the number should be far more similar.
Do you know numbers for the gender split in the political ranks of those parties? I am just making a reasonable assumption that the political career path reflects our society. If it doesn't then maybe there are more males but not 1/19 sort of numbers. Not 2/20 sort of numbers. If there is a great disparity between the gender numbers in those parties, then that also tells us something already doesn't it?
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There are several more female parliamentary secretaries in the LNP suggesting that seniority and experience is a significant contributing factor. Not sure how you create seniority and experience overnight - change takes time.
 

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kfc1 said:
Well then there's no point conversing with you if you're just going to make claims and not bother to back them up.


There are several more female parliamentary secretaries in the LNP suggesting that seniority and experience is a significant contributing factor. Not sure how you create seniority and experience overnight - change takes time.
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I knew hardly anything of the 'experience and skills' of the males or females elevated into the cabinet of Daniel Andrews. I imagine you didn't either. Just like you can't even tell me the names of Tone's outer ministry, let alone their capabilities regardless of gender. But guess what? The Andrew's cabinet panned out pretty well along the lines I would expect of an important organization that represents our community in 2014-13 men and 9 women. How on earth did he manage to find that many capable women in Victoria alone when Tone could hardly find 1 in the whole of Australia? Do you think Dan went down the beach and just gave a hoy? Otherwise the likely scenario strikes me is either of 2 things. Tone is a dinosaur or his party is a dinosaur that doesn't encourage equality.
To say change takes time is lol. What era is this?
 
romeoh said:
I knew hardly anything of the 'experience and skills' of the males or females elevated into the cabinet of Daniel Andrews. I imagine you didn't either. Just like you can't even tell me the names of Tone's outer ministry, let alone their capabilities regardless of gender. But guess what? The Andrew's cabinet panned out pretty well along the lines I would expect of an important organization that represents our community in 2014-13 men and 9 women. How on earth did he manage to find that many capable women in Victoria alone when Tone could hardly find 1 in the whole of Australia? Do you think Dan went down the beach and just gave a hoy? Otherwise the likely scenario strikes me is either of 2 things. Tone is a dinosaur or his party is a dinosaur that doesn't encourage equality.
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"I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about and neither do you but hey a completely different Government managed to appoint 9 female ministers - wow"

romeoh said:
To say change takes time is lol. What era is this?
Click to expand...
2014.
 
kfc1 said:
Your rhetoric doesn't match reality. Your statement makes about as much sense as saying that if there are a number of capable male cricketers, then there are just as many female cricketers and therefore females are discriminated against when selecting the Australian team (assuming it was a mixed team).
.
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What level of stupid is this?
 
Getz said:
What level of stupid is this?
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That was the point.
You got something more than "its the vibe" to add to the discussion? I was hoping romeo might actually be able to tell me that there were several promising female MPs who definitely should not have been overlooked for a cabinet role but I mistakenly thought he was speaking from a position of knowledge.
 
kfc1 said:
That was the point.
You got something more than "its the vibe" to add to the discussion? I was hoping romeo might actually be able to tell me that there were several promising female MPs who definitely should not have been overlooked for a cabinet role but I mistakenly thought he was speaking from a position of knowledge.
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Your point was to make yourself look stupid? Well you nailed it.

As has been put to you multiple times, it's very hard to work out who has been overlooked, or their abilities in a portfolio, until they are actually in that portfolio.
What has also been put to you, is the fact that there is no reason that such a disproportionate amount of women are unable to fill a portfolio in the coalition, compared to stats in other areas.

Especially considering there is no gender discrimination. ..................
 
me said:
You got something more than "its the vibe" to add to the discussion?
Click to expand...
Getz said:
Your point was to make yourself look stupid? Well you nailed it.

As has been put to you multiple times, it's very hard to work out who has been overlooked, or their abilities in a portfolio, until they are actually in that portfolio.
What has also been put to you, is the fact that there is no reason that such a disproportionate amount of women are unable to fill a portfolio in the coalition, compared to stats in other areas.

Especially considering there is no gender discrimination. ..................
Click to expand...
So that's a no then?
 
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