Society/Culture Violence in Society; Who is to blame?

[Floor Pie]

This woman disagrees with you.

http://returnofqueens.com/womens-responsibility-in-preventing-rape/

Yet here that is what you are telling tesseract. You lead him and tell him what his views should be which are also your own. You say women and men must do things to reduce rape, then say women should be able to dress in a way society dictates. If they dress in a sexually promiscuous manner for example deliberately to attract attention and also act in a way while out that invites or suggests that they are interested in engaging in sexual behaviours they should be held in no way responsible for their actions?

Yet you directly contradict this claim as soon as you say women and men should be doing things to reduce rape. Wouldn't not going out getting blind drunk, dressing slutty, leading on males be good examples of such behaviour to reduce rape. Seems you are happy to have your cake and eat it too.

Maybe a woman wouldn't have been 'raped' in your eyes and definition of it if she had taken measures to reduce the fact before hand. Therefore it seems you are willing to utilise the all are equal and some are more equal argument to say men and women should reduce the risks of rape and yet then excuse their behaviours which exacerbate the likelihood of rape happening.

What the * is wrong with a woman or a man, being able to dress as they wish, and live as they wish, without the fear of being raped??

I'm sorry, there is nothing I, you, or anyone can do, that justifies being raped...

If a person says no, or tries to disengage, or you know they are in no state to be aware of anything and you are and continue, then it's rape.

Reducing rape means finding ways to decrease the activieties of rapists, not restrict our civil liberties.

 

[Gough]

There's one and only one person who is at fault in a case of rape and that's the rapist.

 

[mottrain]

That's a revolting argument. If you go and get pissed, wear a pair of tight jeans, have a bit of a gentle flirt, and then get raped, would you be at fault?

It is like a car accident. You can be found to be not negligent or responsible for the actions that lead to it but you can be deemed to have contributed to it through mitigating factors. This is seen already in countless criminal cases and judgments now.

 

[Gough]

It is like a car accident. You can be found to be not negligent or responsible for the actions that lead to it but you can be deemed to have contributed to it through mitigating factors. This is seen already in countless criminal cases and judgments now.

Please cite examples, because right now you are looking like an apologist for rape.

 

[mottrain]

What the **** is wrong with a woman or a man, being able to dress as they wish, and live as they wish, without the fear of being raped??

I'm sorry, there is nothing I, you, or anyone can do, that justifies being raped...

If a person says no, or tries to disengage, or you know they are in no state to be aware of anything and you are and continue, then it's rape.

Reducing rape means finding ways to decrease the activieties of rapists, not restrict our civil liberties.

Nah this is the simple step and the first step. It is no different to children being taught the stranger danger stuff where they are told not to talk to adults and let someone like teacher know if they have had a stranger approach them or similar. Why? Because it provides a mechanism to reduce the risk at infant stages. Not let it escalate by following them to where they want to go with you etc. If you cannot see this then you have problem.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

It is like a car accident. You can be found to be not negligent or responsible for the actions that lead to it but you can be deemed to have contributed to it through mitigating factors. This is seen already in countless criminal cases and judgments now.

There we have it, mottrain believes that rape victims can be deemed to have contribute to their being raped. Glad we have cleared that up. Now tesseract, your views?

 

[mottrain]

Please cite examples, because right now you are looking like an apologist for rape.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...pport-daughter-didn-existed-article-1.1927767

 

[Floor Pie]

Nah this is the simple step and the first step. It is no different to children being taught the stranger danger stuff where they are told not to talk to adults and let someone like teacher know if they have had a stranger approach them or similar. Why? Because it provides a mechanism to reduce the risk at infant stages. Not let it escalate by following them to where they want to go with you etc. If you cannot see this then you have problem.

Seriously... if a child is abducted, you think the child is partially responsible?
If a priest rapes an altar boy, who do you also blame there? The child? The parents for letting the child be an altar boy?

What you're saying, is that if someone exists, they increase the risk of being raped... and thus it is partially their fault.

No Tom. The person who rapes someone is to blame.

You have some of the worst ideals of anyo e I've ever come across. I don't understand how you can be like that in this day and age!

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...pport-daughter-didn-existed-article-1.1927767

Yet again, what does that have to do with your argument?

 

[kfc1]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...pport-daughter-didn-existed-article-1.1927767

Disgusting

 

[mottrain]

Yet again, what does that have to do with your argument?

The guy has been raped and is now being told he is responsible for his actions by being made to pay support. I like it how you need to be told everything.

 

[Floor Pie]

The guy has been raped and is now being told he is responsible for his actions by being made to pay support. I like it how you need to be told everything.

No, he is being told he is responsible for his child.

The situation itself though, is crazy ridiculous. How the woman hasn't been jailed for rape is beyond me.
He wouldn't have to pay support, and would get full custody of the child.
Did it say he has gone to police or the courts to press charges for rape?
If he did, and it was ignored, that's infuriating.

 

[mottrain]

Seriously... if a child is abducted, you think the child is partially responsible?
If a priest rapes an altar boy, who do you also blame there? The child? The parents for letting the child be an altar boy?

What you're saying, is that if someone exists, they increase the risk of being raped... and thus it is partially their fault.

No Tom. The person who rapes someone is to blame.

You have some of the worst ideals of anyo e I've ever come across. I don't understand how you can be like that in this day and age!

I could say the same for you. It seems whenever you are pressed about your ideals or have them challenged and disproven you need to resort to attacking the other person to try and regain credibility.

Again you are using examples that are not the same to try and prove your point and credit yours. Note how your example about altar boys and priests doesn't refer at all to the victim behaving in a way which can exacerbate the situation to start with. I don't condone rape or a number of other crimes but to ignore the fact that there is the possibility that the victim has not contributed to a crime committed against them in some way is delusional and not representative of reality.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

The guy has been raped and is now being told he is responsible for his actions by being made to pay support. I like it how you need to be told everything.

Where has he been told that his actions contributed to his rape? Which was your orignal point.

 

[mottrain]

Where has he been told that his actions contributed to his rape? Which was your orignal point.

By being made to pay Child support. This directly says we don't care how the child was born if you're the father you are responsible. Therefore they have said if you get raped by being taken advantage of tough s**t you still need to meet child support.

 

[Floor Pie]

I could say the same for you. It seems whenever you are pressed about your ideals or have them challenged and disproven you need to resort to attacking the other person to try and regain credibility.

Again you are using examples that are not the same to try and prove your point and credit yours. Note how your example about altar boys and priests doesn't refer at all to the victim behaving in a way which can exacerbate the situation to start with. I don't condone rape or a number of other crimes but to ignore the fact that there is the possibility that the victim has not contributed to a crime committed against them in some way is delusional and not representative of reality.

You made all sorts of claims about me just an hour ago. I called you out, and you just ran away. So don't talk about playing the man.
I responded to the issue, and expressed my honest opinion of you. You can be ok, but then you cone out with some ridiculous s**t.

So the altar boy is completely innocent then? There is no portion of blame on the altar boy? Good.. you're human.
But why would someone driving, be partially to blame, if someone crashes onto them?
Is it just because they were in the car???

Rape is taking advantage of someone and commuting a heinous act.
So the abducted child is not to blame. The evil bastard that would kidnap a child is.

Someone finishes work at 8pm, and goes for a jog along the bike/walk path around a park area on their own. Someone attacks them, subdues them and rapes them.
Is the jogger to blame for being out, alone, after dark?


Edit: and what are my ideals? Which ones have you challenged? And when have you ever proved me wrong, on anything??

 

[Floor Pie]

By being made to pay Child support. This directly says we don't care how the child was born if you're the father you are responsible. Therefore they have said if you get raped by being taken advantage of tough s**t you still need to meet child support.

No it is saying that dna matches show he is the father, and legally must pay child support. Not punishing him, or blaming him for being raped.

 

[mottrain]

You made all sorts of claims about me just an hour ago. I called you out, and you just ran away. So don't talk about playing the man.
I responded to the issue, and expressed my honest opinion of you. You can be ok, but then you cone out with some ridiculous s**t.

So the altar boy is completely innocent then? There is no portion of blame on the altar boy? Good.. you're human.
But why would someone driving, be partially to blame, if someone crashes onto them?
Is it just because they were in the car???

Rape is taking advantage of someone and commuting a heinous act.
So the abducted child is not to blame. The evil bastard that would kidnap a child is.

Someone finishes work at 8pm, and goes for a jog along the bike/walk path around a park area on their own. Someone attacks them, subdues them and rapes them.
Is the jogger to blame for being out, alone, after dark?

The difference between most altar boys is that they are put in that situation and can be more easily taken advantage of. A woman who goes out and gets trashed and acts like a **** did so on her own choice and thus has put herself at risk through her questionable judgement. This is despite the fact that there is material educating her on this.

As for the jogger example, police make it very clear as do a number of other groups to avoid areas which are dark and secluded. Not just to women but Indian Students etc and also do this after an attack occurs even moreso to prevent repeats especially when it is still being investigated. People who put themselves in situations where they place themselves at risk have contributed to an act even if it is inadvertantly. There is a reason there is strong cross community action on getting drunk because it is proven to put people at risk of a number of things not just getting raped but also driving, fights etc.

As for driving if someone crashes into you, you can be to blame partially simply for not indicating with sufficient notice, driving without headlights etc. Even if the other guy went through the stop sign but did so because he had thought it was clear because he couldn't see your car without the lights on this is sufficient grounds for a magistrate to reduce the negligent party's negligence level in his verdict.

 

[mottrain]

No it is saying that dna matches show he is the father, and legally must pay child support. Not punishing him, or blaming him for being raped.

Having to pay child support for being raped is punishing them for being raped. Other states in America agree and actually have laws in place to stop this scenario from happening.

 

[Floor Pie]

So a woman can't do the same thing as a man?

Ok mottrain. What is safe for a woman to wear to town, if she wants to go clubbing? Where are people allowed to travel? What hours of the day may they travel alone?

Police can say, be careful in certain situations, but that doesn't justify rape, or put the victim at fault.

Seriously... a woman could be wearing whatever, in any environment, acting however she wants, and I wouldn't rape her...
Why is it an excuse for someone else to rape her???

 

[Floor Pie]

Having to pay child support for being raped is punishing them for being raped. Other states in America agree and actually have laws in place to stop this scenario from happening.

No it's not a punishment for being raped... the state hasn't forced him to pay child support because he was raped. They forced him to pay child support, because it was his child.
I'm not sure what the law there is, and why she hasn't been charged and arrested, but as you said, there are laws to protect the victim in other states.

 

[mottrain]

No it's not a punishment for being raped... the state hasn't forced him to pay child support because he was raped. They forced him to pay child support, because it was his child.
I'm not sure what the law there is, and why she hasn't been charged and arrested, but as you said, there are laws to protect the victim in other states.

Had he not been raped would he have had the child with that woman and at that time?

 

[Floor Pie]

Had he not been raped would he have had the child with that woman and at that time?

Causation does not equal correlation. ..

If he hadn't been born, he wouldn't have been raped.. therefore parents are also to blame..

 

[skilts]

A woman who goes out and gets trashed and acts like a **** did so on her own choice and thus has put herself at risk through her questionable judgement.

What sort of quality of judgement is brought to bear in deciding that a woman is a '****', just because she meets some preconceived vision you have of what constitutes one? Is it in any way possible that your assessment of her might be inaccurate? Even if it were accurate, are you saying that it's OK to rape 'sluts', or that they are somehow deserving of your unwanted attentions? You are dangerously ill, and a danger to others.

 

[Gough]

I guess when teh gayz touched Dymot up, he was probably drunk and wearing tight jeans, you need to stop asking for it mate.