Would you ever risk your life for your liberties?

[Long Live HFC]

Bundy was paying the leasing fees to the county, who He reckons owns the land. They have been in court fro 20 years to disputing ownership.

no, bundy tried to pay the county, which they never accepted. he had to pay the BLM. im not sure why he refused at the time or why he still refuses to do so.

If He paid fees to the feds he enters a contract with them acknowledging they are the lessors.

huh?

The Fees are yet another distraction

that's what the entire issue is predicated on. you're just hand-waving it away due to its inconvenience.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

The Fees are yet another distraction , like the debunked turtle problem.

Yep, and the most amusing part is that the two lines of propaganda don't really go so well together.

If the tortoises are so endangered by grazing, why does the payment of grazing taxes suddenly make grazing okay?

It is a simple strategy: smear the target with accusations (words like 'hippy', 'nut', 'greedy twat' etc help with this) and hope that people focus on these claims rather than the corruption going on behind the scenes or the use of armed federal agents who threaten to shoot law-abiding citizens.

It does work to some extent. Particularly on the dull-minded who take their opinions from the MSM. It isn't so effective in the internet age where people can get other opinions and do their own research.

Hence the stand-off near the bridge. Waco won't be quite so easy for the feds this time around.

 

[Long Live HFC]

what corruption? the US government owns the land. they can do what they will with it. 20 years in court and bundy lost on every point.

the use of armed federal agents who threaten to shoot law-abiding citizens.

what planet are you on exactly? which part of violating court orders and obstructing the lawful execution of duties by federal officers is "law-abiding" in your world?

i've spent quite a bit of time answering your inane questions, your inability to do the same speaks volumes.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

what corruption?

Come on champ. You find obscure policies from US agencies but can't google Harry Reid?

On April 3, 3012, Bloomberg reported Chinese billionaire Wang Yusuo, one of China’s richest citizens and the founder of Chinese energy giant ENN Group, had teamed up with Senate Majority Leader Reid to win incentives including land 113 miles southeast of Las Vegas that ENN sought to buy for $4.5 million, less than one-eighth of the land’s $38.6 million assessed value.

Bloomberg reported ENN intended to create solar energy farms on the Nevada land, despite the nearly 50 percent plunge in solar panel prices globally in the previous 15 months that led to the bankruptcy of solar equipment maker Solyndra LLC, which had received approximately $535 million in U.S. government loan guarantees.

Bloomberg further documented ENN had contributed $40,650 individually and through its political action committee to Sen. Reid over the previous three election cycles.

Subsequently, on Sept. 4, 2012, Breitbart.com reported lawyer Rory Reid, the son of Sen. Reid, had been appointed the primary representative for ENN Energy Group, fronting the bid by the Chinese company to build a $5-billion solar panel plant on a 9,000-acre Clark County desert plot in Laughton, Nevada.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/reid-smelling-anything-but-rosy-in-ranch-fight/

And more info here: http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/harry-reids-last-roundup/

Now please do try to reply without smearing the protestors or other posters. You've been asked very nicely.

 

[Long Live HFC]

again, where's the corruption? it's federal government land, they can do whatever they want with it? there's certainly no need to trump up charges against bundy if they wanted "his" land, they could simply not re-issue the lease when it expired.

Ignoring the 20 years of illegal cattle grazing, conspiracy theorists have made the argument that this is somehow in connection with a 2012 proposal for ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in Laughlin, NV. The problem with this “connection” is that Laughlin resides about 180 miles south of the Golden Butte area where the point of contention lies.

http://www.factandmyth.com/conspiracy-theory/cliven-bundys-cattle-and-the-federal-land-grab

but lets not let the facts get in the way of another great conspiracy!! lol.

 

[Long Live HFC]

which part of violating court orders and obstructing the lawful execution of duties by federal officers is "law-abiding" in your world?

still waiting....

 

[Smiling Buddha]

'factandmyth.com' lol. Come on champ, you can do better than that.

Anyway the following video is a fascinating account of what took place on the day of the retreat.

 

[Long Live HFC]

repeated dodges noted!

 

[Long Live HFC]

why can't you answer these very basic questions smiling buddha? what are you afraid of?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Interestingly Harry Reid has said, with a grin on his face, 'It's not over'.

http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/s...ttle-Its-not-over/nT5weKnqFkezV14I5GhESg.cspx

 

[Long Live HFC]

why can't you answer these very basic questions smiling buddha? what are you afraid of?

Still waiting...

 

[JD11]

Still waiting...

christ, it's been 9 minutes. calm down.

 

[Long Live HFC]

christ, it's been 9 minutes. calm down.

over 9hrs by my clock? (more if you count the previous questions from yesterday).

 

[JD11]

over 9hrs by my clock? (more if you count the previous questions from yesterday).

dont know about you but I usually sleep between midnight and 7-9am...

 

[Long Live HFC]

dont know about you but I usually sleep between midnight and 7-9am...

and yet SB was replying prior to my post you originally quoted...

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Another fascinating video.



These guys aren't going down without a fight.

 

[Long Live HFC]

would you say you approve of violence (or intimidation/the threat of violence) over the rule of law, smiling buddha?

 

[clogged]

Bundy was paying the leasing fees to the county, who He reckons owns the land. They have been in court fro 20 years to disputing ownership. If He paid fees to the feds he enters a contract with them acknowledging they are the lessors.

Who actually owns the land?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

lol @ the desert tortoise angle.

Didn't they ban cattle grazing in the Victorian High Country for conservational issues? Didn't they put the kibosh on a proposed wind farm in Victoria because of the endangered orange bellied parrot? Lots of things around the world are banned or restricted for conservational reasons.

Come on 'long live hfc', if you are going to spread disinformation in every thread that questions growing state power here and abroad, at least stick to the parts of the script that aren't so laughable.

What do you have to say about Senator Harry Reid's connections to Chinese developers who plan to use the land in question for large-scale development?

If that's true and there's anything underhanded going on then the legal system can deal with it just like they did in NSW for whatever that politicians name was who was making money out of making favourable rulings for miners and developers.


What do you have to say about 'First Amendment Zones' being placed around the protest site?

What do you have to say about the 'No Fly Zone' which has been imposed above the area in question?

A no fly zone seems reasonable. No stray shots hitting low flying aircraft and no media sensationalising the event and making it bigger than it needs to be. You think it's the first time a no fly zone has ever been used during something of this nature? You're kidding yourself if you do.


And please, try to answer without denigrating or marginalising any of the innocent protestors involved or posters in this thread.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Who actually owns the land?

the court ruled that the US federal government has owned the title since 1848. game, set, match!

 

[bkozican]

bundy is required to pay grazing fees to BLM just like every other grazer in the country that uses BLM land. it has been this way since 1936 when the act was passed. the rights are leased and if you don't pay you lose your lease. the lease expired in 1998 and the lease was bought by clark county. they did so and then deliberately didn't graze cattle on it because it was part of a conservation plan (it protected desert tortoise habitat apparently).

but billy bob and his gun-toting mates didn't want to abide by rules that everyone else has to follow. they're not being ignorant selfish ****s, they're "fighting for our liberties, man!".

are you even listening to yourself? if a court makes a ruling you disagree with, on what basis do you bring the guns out? who adjudicates such issues exactly? let's say i reckon you owe me $100 but the court says you don't. is it ok to bust out the weapons and make you pay? who or what makes the farmer's actions "right"?

of course not.

that's what i said.

who would i believe about what exactly?

The BLM was established in 1946. Maybe this has been a dispute for decades/generations. One day in "1936" (according to your post) the BLM walked over and said you have to start paying for this land. Who gives that right to the BLM. The said land may be owned within the family for generations.
ie, If you brought a house and when you retire and your kids take over, one day the feds march up and say "you have to pay us more money to live here", Are you just going to bend over and allow them to do so because some court said so

are you even listening to yourself? if a court makes a ruling you disagree with, on what basis do you bring the guns out? who adjudicates such issues exactly? let's say i reckon you owe me $100 but the court says you don't. is it ok to bust out the weapons and make you pay? who or what makes the farmer's actions "right"?

But its ok for the US enforcement agencies to shoot first ask later. Its a 2 way street. Im guessing the police agencies are like here in Aus.......They are public servants, Therefor they work for the public. The videos in this thread, remind me of something you would see in a war zone. It is like henchman flexing their powers because they can.

 

[Ripper]

“The government’s option is to take the amount of money he owes them and docket it, that is file the lien on his property….the federal government could have done that, instead they wanted this show of force,” said Napolitano, adding, “They swooped in….with assault rifles aimed and ready and stole this guy’s property, they stole his cattle, they didn’t have the right to do that, that’s theft and they should have been arrested by state officials”.

 

[Ripper]

would you say you approve of violence (or intimidation/the threat of violence) over the rule of law, smiling buddha?

That's what the FED's did.

 

[Long Live HFC]

The BLM was established in 1946. Maybe this has been a dispute for decades/generations. One day in "1936" (according to your post) the BLM walked over and said you have to start paying for this land. Who gives that right to the BLM. The said land may be owned within the family for generations.

except it wasn't, was it? it was bought by the government from mexico. you can't just handwave this fact aside. the government gave the "right" to manage the land to BLM and NPS etc.

ie, If you brought a house and when you retire and your kids take over, one day the feds march up and say "you have to pay us more money to live here", Are you just going to bend over and allow them to do so because some court said so.

again, this isn't what happened. you can't just frame the question however you wish when the analogy is inaccurate.

But its ok for the US enforcement agencies to shoot first ask later. Its a 2 way street. Im guessing the police agencies are like here in Aus.......They are public servants, Therefor they work for the public. The videos in this thread, remind me of something you would see in a war zone. It is like henchman flexing their powers because they can.

not sure what this irrelevant drivel is meant to mean.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Herne Hill Hammer

"Lots of things around the world are banned or restricted for conservational reasons."

Sure, but the glaring problem with the 'desert tortoise' angle is that the feds have been euthanising hundreds of the critters. Hypocrisy of the highest order. If the government had banned the wind turbines to save a parrot they had admitted to slaughtering themselves, would you take them seriously?

"A no fly zone seems reasonable. No stray shots hitting low flying aircraft and no media sensationalising the event and making it bigger than it needs to be."

There is no risk of the MSM 'sensationalising' this issue, they are doing all they can to downplay it. Why would any aircraft not related to the incident be anywhere near low enough to be hit by 'stray bullets'?