Melbourne have made an official PSD play for Ball.

[Invigoration]

Mabye your blokes shouldnt of told him he would be in black and white next year which would of allowed him to seek other trade options with clubs also close to a flag.

He is a big boy, I'm sure he knew the risks and I'm sure he knew there were no promises.

 

[MaggieNo20]

If he goes to Melbourne, he will have a very good chance of playing in a grand final in a few years time, considering he is still pretty young.

I honestly don't see Collingwood challenging for some time, as they have a decent side, but lack the quality to go all the way.

LOL, you have made my day, that is some funny stuff!.

 

[Damon_3388]

I've posted this elsewhere, but it's somewhat relevant here too - couldn't it just be as simple as all this?:

- Luke Ball's current contract with St Kilda expires on October 31, effectively making him a 'free agent' without a club who still has to go through the draft process.
- After October 31, Luke Ball makes an official statement through the media that he "only wants to play for Collingwood in 2010" and that he "rufuses to deal with any other club and/or play for any other club in 2010", thereby warning off other clubs from picking him in either the National Draft or Pre-Season Draft.
- Collingwood then expresses official interest in Ball after he has made this statement (and after his St Kilda contract has officially expired), so as not to have dirt-diggers accusing them of publically 'tampering with the draft' or anything silly like that. They would have obviously come to a good-faith agreement with Ball that they would indeed draft him (given the chance) prior to this (similar to what happened with Ben Cousins and Richmond last year), as I imagine they are allowed to do with any other eligible draftee.
- On November 26, other AFL clubs heed Ball's words that he'll refuse to play for them if they select him, and (just as other clubs conceeded and agreed to leave Ben Cousins for Richmond last year) Collingwood then use pick #30 in the National Draft to secure Luke Ball's services.

Can anyone pick any flaws/incorrectness/impossibilities/variables with that scenario? In the scenario I laid out, Melbourne would be making fools of themselves if they 'panicked' and decided to pick Ball in the National Draft anyway (before he falls to Collingwood's pick), as he would have already made it perfectly clear a few weeks before the National Draft that he doesn't want to deal with and/or play with any club but Collingwood in 2010. And obviously he wouldn't be able to be picked by Melbourne in the PSD if he's already gone by then.

 

[bodazoka]

In the above scenario Melbourne would still take Ball in the PSD, he is just too good to pass up. I would do it purely so I would have a great uncontracted player to trade to the GC next year, or any other club for that matter.

The only chance you have is to put a massive massive price $$$ on his head, and its likely that some of your players would have to take a pay cut to get him.

 

[w00dy]

I don't mean this as an insult to Melbourne, but I'd be willing to take my chances, odds are he is going to land at a team that is in a better position than Melbourne because I don't see why the bottom 4 teams would use a first or second rounder on him?
I couldn't see you guys sacrificing pick 18 for him, I could be wrong though, would you want them to use it?

I would just think if I was him, if I don't make it to Collingwood, chances are a better team than Melbourne will take me... I mean, 15 teams were better than you this year, not saying your scope for improvement isn't large, but Ball could be completely broken down by the time you guys are really ready to challenge.
A lot of your supporters were justifying moving McLean on because of how far away your window is, Ball is a more severe case of that IMO.

If he goes to the PSD it is a great get, but if he chances the draft I think it would work out better for him. I don't know why the certainty of going to Melbourne would encourage him to go into the PSD?
Anyone have the order of the picks after the first rounders (don't assume anyone will use one on Ball)?

Here is the order of draft picks from 18 - 30... You'd think Essendon would snap him up at 26... Could easily go before that though too, so I don't think he'd get through to Collingwood...

2 18 Melbourne
2 19 Richmond
2 20 Fremantle
2 21 North Melbourne
2 22 West Coast
2 23 West Coast
2 24 Essendon
2 25 North Melbourne
2 26 Essendon
2 27 Brisbane Lions
2 28 Geelong
2 29 Adelaide
2 30 Collingwood

I see where you're coming from, but even though we were the worst side in the comp, we're obviously going to improve in the coming seasons... There are sides who are going to get worse before they get better over the coming seasons, Richmond comes to mind... Would he risk ending up at Richmond when he could go to Melbourne with certainty? As a Melbournian, would he risk being drafted interstate, when he could choose to play for Melbourne?

Things that Ball obviously has to weigh up, and decide for himself, and if I had to guess, I think he would choose the PSD.

 

[jimmy35]

Sounds a lot like draft tampering to me.

 

[dave_27]

lol poor luke ball.

From near guaranteed finals appearances the next couple of years to now playing infront of empty stadiums while trying to avoid the spoon.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Draft tampering?

 

[w00dy]

- After October 31, Luke Ball makes an official statement through the media that he "only wants to play for Collingwood in 2010" and that he "rufuses to deal with any other club and/or play for any other club in 2010", thereby warning off other clubs from picking him in either the National Draft or Pre-Season Draft.

That's called draft tampering... I believe he would be suspended from the draft if he came out and made such a statement... Clubs know it is an empty threat anyway, as he wouldn't be willing to throw away his AFL career, just because he didn't get to Collingwood...

 

[Damon_3388]

In the above scenario Melbourne would still take Ball in the PSD, he is just too good to pass up. I would do it purely so I would have a great uncontracted player to trade to the GC next year, or any other club for that matter.

The only chance you have is to put a massive massive price $$$ on his head, and its likely that some of your players would have to take a pay cut to get him.

If you read the scenario again, Ball would actually be gone by the PSD, leaving Melbourne's only option to use one of their early pick in the National Draft to select him (against his will, mind you). Would Melbourne really be willing to do that?

As for the draft tampering claims - how is what Melbourne are trying to do any different? They're trying to come to a pre-draft agreement with Ball as well, and make sure other clubs don't try to get him nominating for the National Draft. And how was Richmond coming to an agreement with Ben Cousins to draft him last year any different? The Tigers didn't have the 1st pick in the PSD, and he was an uncontracted player whom they had to 'lure' to their club by whatever means they could. Ball will be uncontracted after October 31, so he'd effectively be a 'free agent' without a club who still has to go through the draft process if he wants to play AFL again, making him fair game for courting as far as I can see.

 

[Spook]

If he goes to Melbourne, he will have a very good chance of playing in a grand final in a few years time, considering he is still pretty young.

I honestly don't see Collingwood challenging for some time, as they have a decent side, but lack the quality to go all the way.

Hey I am not saying that Melb are not capable of making a GF in a few years time.... but tell me a club who believe that they CANT make a GF in a few years time.


(before some of you start, Yes I know Freo & Rich wont)

 

[Spook]

If he goes to Melbourne, he will have a very good chance of playing in a grand final in a few years time, considering he is still pretty young.

I honestly don't see Collingwood challenging for some time, as they have a decent side, but lack the quality to go all the way.

Hey I am not saying that Melb are not capable of making a GF in a few years time.... but tell me a club who believe that they CANT make a GF in a few years time.


(before some of you start, Yes I know Freo & Rich wont, but I bet they think they can)

 

[mjr_42]

The only way Ball could avoid a charge of draft tampering is to nominate for either the national or pre-season drafts with a documented price on his head.

There's a particular term for it: a "category xxx player" or something. That way, any club that selects him has to meet his salary terms.

However, that still wouldn't guarantee a clear passage to Collignwood as there are several teams that could accommodate any of Ball's salary demands, including Melbourne and Fremantle.

 

[mjr_42]

As for the draft tampering claims - how was Richmond coming to an agreement with Ben Cousins to draft him last year any different? They didn't have the 1st pick in the PSD, and he was an uncontracted player whom they had to 'lure' to their club by whatever means they could. Ball will be uncontracted after October 31, so he'd effectively be a 'free agent' without a club who still has to go through the draft process, making him fair game as far as I can see.

The difference with Cousins is that every other club had publicly ruled out selecting Ben Cousins. There was no draft tampering; the Tigers were just the last club standing.

You're right that Ball is a free agent for both the national and pre-season drafts - so that means any club is within its rights to select him. If Ball does not sign a deal with the Saints for 2010, he has little say in where he plays.

The only way he can manipulate the process is by nominating his salary terms for the national and pre-season drafts. All that will do is prevent teams who have tight salary caps (Geelong, Brisbane, Western Bulldogs) from taking him.

That leaves Melbourne, Freo, Richmond, Sydney, North, West Coast and Essendon as clubs who could still feasibly afford him - to name a few.

There is next to no chance that Luke Ball will be playing for Collingwood in 2010.

 

[Theo X]

If you read the scenario again, Ball would actually be gone by the PSD, leaving Melbourne's only option to use one of their early pick in the National Draft to select him (against his will, mind you). Would Melbourne really be willing to do that?

As for the draft tampering claims - how is what Melbourne are trying to do any different? They're trying to come to a pre-draft agreement with Ball as well, and make sure other clubs don't try to get him nominating for the National Draft. And how was Richmond coming to an agreement with Ben Cousins to draft him last year any different? The Tigers didn't have the 1st pick in the PSD, and he was an uncontracted player whom they had to 'lure' to their club by whatever means they could. Ball will be uncontracted after October 31, so he'd effectively be a 'free agent' without a club who still has to go through the draft process if he wants to play AFL again, making him fair game for courting as far as I can see.

Because no one else wanted him haha, Damon you are a semi-****** buddy

 

[Invigoration]

Here is the order of draft picks from 18 - 30... You'd think Essendon would snap him up at 26... Could easily go before that though too, so I don't think he'd get through to Collingwood...

2 18 Melbourne
2 19 Richmond
2 20 Fremantle
2 21 North Melbourne
2 22 West Coast
2 23 West Coast
2 24 Essendon
2 25 North Melbourne
2 26 Essendon
2 27 Brisbane Lions
2 28 Geelong
2 29 Adelaide
2 30 Collingwood

I see where you're coming from, but even though we were the worst side in the comp, we're obviously going to improve in the coming seasons... There are sides who are going to get worse before they get better over the coming seasons, Richmond comes to mind... Would he risk ending up at Richmond when he could go to Melbourne with certainty? As a Melbournian, would he risk being drafted interstate, when he could choose to play for Melbourne?

Things that Ball obviously has to weigh up, and decide for himself, and if I had to guess, I think he would choose the PSD.

Yeah I reckon Essendon would nab him as well which probably makes the whole discussion irrelevant.

Like I said, he is brilliant if you guys get him in the PSD, but I reckon with the list you are building and the average age of the list, if he went in the draft that you'd be better off using all your top 20 picks on kids.
Thinking about it though, and in agreement with what you said, I'd actually prefer Melbourne over a bunch of other clubs... Richmond the obvious example, but I think Essendon are in for lean times and I doubt he'd really want to end up there.

Will be interesting to watch what happens from here.

 

[mjr_42]

I'd be irritated if we used up one of our top 20 selections on Ball.

PSD or bust, I say.

 

[BOND 007]

I've posted this elsewhere, but it's somewhat relevant here too - couldn't it just be as simple as all this?:

- Luke Ball's current contract with St Kilda expires on October 31, effectively making him a 'free agent' without a club who still has to go through the draft process.
- After October 31, Luke Ball makes an official statement through the media that he "only wants to play for Collingwood in 2010" and that he "rufuses to deal with any other club and/or play for any other club in 2010", thereby warning off other clubs from picking him in either the National Draft or Pre-Season Draft.
- Collingwood then expresses official interest in Ball after he has made this statement (and after his St Kilda contract has officially expired), so as not to have dirt-diggers accusing them of publically 'tampering with the draft' or anything silly like that. They would have obviously come to a good-faith agreement with Ball that they would indeed draft him (given the chance) prior to this (similar to what happened with Ben Cousins and Richmond last year), as I imagine they are allowed to do with any other eligible draftee.
- On November 26, other AFL clubs heed Ball's words that he'll refuse to play for them if they select him, and (just as other clubs conceeded and agreed to leave Ben Cousins for Richmond last year) Collingwood then use pick #30 in the National Draft to secure Luke Ball's services.

Can anyone pick any flaws/incorrectness/impossibilities/variables with that scenario? In the scenario I laid out, Melbourne would be making fools of themselves if they 'panicked' and decided to pick Ball in the National Draft anyway (before he falls to Collingwood's pick), as he would have already made it perfectly clear a few weeks before the National Draft that he doesn't want to deal with and/or play with any club but Collingwood in 2010. And obviously he wouldn't be able to be picked by Melbourne in the PSD if he's already gone by then.

When Ball's contract ends on October 31, he becomes a player no longer registered with the AFL. He then has 2 options.
1) Register for the ND
2) Ignore ND and register for PSD.

If he chooses the former option he forgoes all demands that he can make via PSD (pay etc) and he signs a document agreeing to abide by all rules relating to being drafted in the ND. Part of these rules relate to a player (or his spokesman) making statements that can be seen as being prejudicial regarding desired team destination.

By Ball entering the ND he is treated no different to any other player hoping to be drafted. If he or his spokesman made such a statement (akin to say Morabito advising that he's not going to shift from WA in order to play AFL football) he would receive a please explain letter from the AFL and advised to retract his statement. Failure to do do would probably see him being refused a number at time of on ND draft and therefore being ineligeable to be drafted.

(Note whether he is prepared to run this game and therefore scare other teams off before retracting his statement - is another story altogether)

Option 2 - Is via PSD and in this case I dont reckon he will get to Collingwood. Too many other teams will be able to meet his monetry demands and he may have to end up in SA or even WA.

In realistic terms it is highly unlikely Ball get to Collingwood. A team such as Melb with multiple picks before Coll will use one (I would for pick 18 in this draft if I was Melb).

As I see it, its a choice between the money Melb will offer him versus a chance of success at the Saints. I always played football to have a chance to play in and win a GF, so I know which way I would go.

 

[mjr_42]

When Ball's contract ends on October 31, he becomes a player no longer registered with the AFL. He then has 2 options.
1) Register for the ND
2) Ignore ND and register for PSD.

If he chooses the former option he forgoes all demands that he can make via PSD (pay etc) and he signs a document agreeing to abide by all rules relating to being drafted in the ND. Part of these rules relate to a player (or his spokesman) making statements that can be seen as being prejudicial regarding desired team destination.

This was definitely the case in previous years, but I believe that ruling has changed for 2009. I think the AFL has allowed uncontracted players to nominate wage terms in both the ND and the PSD this year, in a bid to improve player transfers and stave off the prospect of free agency.

I'm searching for a link to support this at the moment...!

 

[Damon_3388]

Because no one else wanted him haha, Damon you are a semi-****** buddy

Weren't St Kilda looking like Cousins' destination for about 75% of the process? Collingwood were also making a play for him at one stage too. Richmond were hardly the only club interested in his services.

Anyway, I was just using it as an example of a club coming to a pre-draft agreement with a player, which is still what it was, and is still technically what Melbourne have stated they're looking to do with Ball too (albeit in a different way to the Collingwood scenario I set out earlier).

 

[jimmy35]

I'd be irritated if we used up one of our top 20 selections on Ball.

PSD or bust, I say.

I agree. A bonus for you in the PSD but youth is the way to go in the draft.




And he wont get to us in either draft, we had our chance and decided against it.

 

[w00dy]

If you read the scenario again, Ball would actually be gone by the PSD, leaving Melbourne's only option to use one of their early pick in the National Draft to select him (against his will, mind you). Would Melbourne really be willing to do that?

As for the draft tampering claims - how is what Melbourne are trying to do any different? They're trying to come to a pre-draft agreement with Ball as well, and make sure other clubs don't try to get him nominating for the National Draft. And how was Richmond coming to an agreement with Ben Cousins to draft him last year any different? The Tigers didn't have the 1st pick in the PSD, and he was an uncontracted player whom they had to 'lure' to their club by whatever means they could. Ball will be uncontracted after October 31, so he'd effectively be a 'free agent' without a club who still has to go through the draft process if he wants to play AFL again, making him fair game for courting as far as I can see.

The clubs themselves are not capable of tampering with the draft... If they wanted, they can say who they're planning to draft beforehand, that changes nothing, all the teams take who they want with their own selections, nothing changes...

The player's themselves are the only ones capable of tampering with the draft, as by coming out and saying that they want to play for a certain club, this could result in clubs drafting differently to how they otherwise would, and hence the draft has been tampered with...

Ben Cousins didn't say he wouldn't play for anyone but Richmond last year, hence there was no draft tampering... The scenario is exactly the same as when Nick Stevens didn't make it to Collingwood, except that Ball has the ability to nominate a salary in the National Draft if he chooses that option...

 

[doggiesin08]

Seems a perfect fit for the Gold Coast if he was prepared to go. Just sign with Melbourne for 2 years (think you have to sign at least 2 year deals through the PSD) but at the end of next year they can just trade him to the Gold Coast for a pick around the 20-30 mark. Basically he gets to go make some $$ and get good opportunities at the Gold Coast and Melbourne essentially get a decent pick in next years ND plus a year of Balls experience to their young midfielders.

 

[HFF]

Luke won't nominate for the PSD.

He will not want to play for Melbourne. They are still years away from any success.

Luke will also not stay with the Saints. Rossy shafted him all year and did the same again during trade week. Too much bad blood.

IMO he will nominate for the National Draft in the hope of getting drafted by Collingwood at pick 30.

 

[Invigoration]

The only way Ball could avoid a charge of draft tampering is to nominate for either the national or pre-season drafts with a documented price on his head.

There's a particular term for it: a "category xxx player" or something. That way, any club that selects him has to meet his salary terms.

However, that still wouldn't guarantee a clear passage to Collignwood as there are several teams that could accommodate any of Ball's salary demands, including Melbourne and Fremantle.

Would be interesting though if he completely closed up show, refused to speak to any of the clubs or go through their medical checks. Surely clubs wouldn't take a punt on a bloke with a 800k price tag on his head that they hadn't spoken to or checked over, also knowing he didn't want to go to your club.

I doubt it'd happen because I don't think Ball is going to really go out of his way for us from now, but it'd be interesting to see how it unfolded.