Saints News Luke Ball sacked from St Kilda because he wasn't fast enough

[Falchoon]

Collingwood offered either Sharrod Wellingham or Tyson Goldsack along with pick #30 first though.

bollocks

 

[Flyingsaint]

Just when you thought Saints and Pies supporters had finally reached some sort of agreement regarding Luke Ball

By the way, is The Bubble out in bookstores? Haven't seen it before and really would like to get my hands on it

d you ever check saints.com.au- was released in Nov dec and has been available since before christmas from the saints shop where all profits go to the club

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The Bubble is a very good read, especially for those who think the club isn't promoting a professional culture. If you are in doubt read it and get back on the wagon.

 

[CrazyQ]

Ball is one of my favourite players but there is no ****ing way he is better than Hayes. Ball should make St.Kilda's 22. Not sure why people think Peake, Eddy and co. would get a spot before him.

 

[FIGJAM]

According to the AFL
Luke Ball had 206 CP from 24 games ( 8.58 ).
Lenny Hayes had 217 from 25 ( 8.68 )
Leigh Montagna had 231 from 26 ( 8.88)
BJ had 236 from 25 ( 9.44 )
DalSanto had 210 from 25 ( So yes Nick had less per game than Luke ).

But hell these are official figures from the AFL site and are obviously unreliable compared to the KS opinion.

Contested possessions are fairly useless stats in isolation. Ball's best work for us is/was completely possessionless. He wins his share of possies, but he also gets stacks of uncredited ball wins that result in him drawing for a bounce. He's like a shock absorber and is the only player of that type that we have (Blair might be a midget version in the future and McCarthy could play this role if he can ever get fit...and he may not).

The reasons behind him going have been covered to death, but in a nutshell, he was too expensive depth in a position where both he and Hayes aren't flexible enough to be of any other utility. That's obvious and I don't much think there is anything surprising here.

 

[the emergency]

d you ever check saints.com.au- was released in Nov dec and has been available since before christmas from the saints shop where all profits go to the club

holy s**t
and to be honest, i sort of avoided everything footy - this forum and saints website included - for much of the rest of the year post-september, so i never noticed the book for sale. will get onto it

 

[Flyingsaint]

holy s**t
and to be honest, i sort of avoided everything footy - this forum and saints website included - for much of the rest of the year post-september, so i never noticed the book for sale. will get onto it

you will have an anjoyable day or two wwith it- depending on your mood- not that it's light to read But when your' connected'- a saints supporter then the iineterest keeps you reading.

was good to hear dave say on radio yesterday that there were some bits' not included' because it seemed the opposition hadn't clued onto them so keeping a few secrets.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Is Ralph a poor mans Hutchy, or is Hutchy a poors mans Ralph...
Did he walk or was he sacked? Is there any moral high ground?

The only thing that matters when a player leaves a club and joins another is what each club gets and what each club gives. These are facts with no subjective value.
Which club is advanced the most toward team success clearly is the winner in the deal.
Salary caps,leadership and all off field issues are all factors in the outcome as real indicators of team success

Comparing Ball to Hayes, player X to Y head to head is only relevant if the players swap clubs. Numbers of contested possesions...who cares?


Claims of manipulating draft rules is irelevant and is the claim of the loser in the deal.

 

[captain peanut]

bollocks

whether or not they were formally offered to st kilda is unclear and really doesn't matter. but there is no doubt that collingwood let it be known that goldsack and wellingham were available for trade during the trade period in question. the saints weren't interested in either. if they had been, they only had to inform collingwood accordingly and the ball deal would have been done. it should also be said that north could have got wellingham but also declined

i can tell with you absolute certainty tho that there was interest from within st kilda in the pies nathan brown. they enquired of coll as to whether he would be available under any scenario and were promptly informed that he was not. the story goes that a certain st kilda talisman was overheard after the saints were informed that brown was not avail saying words to the effect of "thank christ, why would we want that spud anyway" while having a coffee with another saints player in clarendon st sth melb

 

[Falchoon]

the story goes that a certain st kilda talisman was overheard after the saints were informed that brown was not avail saying words to the effect of "thank christ, why would we want that spud anyway" while having a coffee with another saints player in clarendon st sth melb

baaaaa


I tell my kids to not let the bed bugs bite.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Is Ralph a poor mans Hutchy, or is Hutchy a poors mans Ralph...
Did he walk or was he sacked? Is there any moral high ground?

The only thing that matters when a player leaves a club and joins another is what each club gets and what each club gives. These are facts with no subjective value.
Which club is advanced the most toward team success clearly is the winner in the deal.
Salary caps,leadership and all off field issues are all factors in the outcome as real indicators of team success

Comparing Ball to Hayes, player X to Y head to head is only relevant if the players swap clubs. Numbers of contested possesions...who cares?


Claims of manipulating draft rules is irelevant and is the claim of the loser in the deal.

This is similar to the philosophy adopted by the Collingwood supporter who is stealing your wallet.

 

[KissStephanie]

According to the AFL
Luke Ball had 206 CP from 24 games ( 8.58 ).
Lenny Hayes had 217 from 25 ( 8.68 )
Leigh Montagna had 231 from 26 ( 8.88)
BJ had 236 from 25 ( 9.44 )
DalSanto had 210 from 25 ( So yes Nick had less per game than Luke ).

Actually, Luke Ball had 281 contested possessions in 24 matches (11.7 per match), and not 206. Hayes had 305 contested possessions in 25 matches (12.2 per match). Montagna had 286 contested possessions in 26 matches (11.0 per match). Goddard had 262 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.5 per match). Dal Santo had 260 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.4 per match).

But hell these are official figures from the AFL site and are obviously unreliable compared to the KS opinion.

Absolutely unreliable considering that the AFL web site has stated that Ball had zero contested possessions in the Preliminary Final when he had 14. Considering that massive error, then I don't find them reliable at all, and I would rather use the stats that the coaches use (see above). Therefore, I believe that Ball averaged more contested possessions last season than Montagna, Goddard and Dal Santo as I had originally stated, and I have supplied a source I trust to confirm my opinion.

 

[Mister Magic]

Actually, Luke Ball had 281 contested possessions in 24 matches (11.7 per match), and not 206. Hayes had 305 contested possessions in 25 matches (12.2 per match). Montagna had 286 contested possessions in 26 matches (11.0 per match). Goddard had 262 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.5 per match). Dal Santo had 260 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.4 per match).Absolutely unreliable considering that the AFL web site has stated that Ball had zero contested possessions in the Preliminary Final when he had 14. Considering that massive error, then I don't find them reliable at all, and I would rather use the stats that the coaches use (see above). Therefore, I believe that Ball averaged more contested possessions last season than Montagna, Goddard and Dal Santo as I had originally stated, and I have supplied a source I trust to confirm my opinion.

I cannot believe I'm actually responding to this zealot but given she's now infecting the Saints Board with her viral drivel I feel I cannot let it pass without comment.

I have absolutely no idea where she found those particular stats from given that she refuses to use the AFL ones. Are they a special set concocted at The Westpac Centre for use by Pie Zealots when arguing with other fans?
But there's a fatal flaw in those 'stats'.
You're comparing Ball, an inside mid, with
Dal Santo and Montagna (both outside mids)
and Goddard (a sometime mid).
The only one you might fairly compare him to is Hayes who is also an inside mid.

What were Ball's stats for the other aspects of the game (eg disposals, efficiency, marks, goals, goal assists, shepherds, tackles etc) compared to the Saints midfielders and the other Collingwood midfielders.
For 500k per season I'd be expecting him to be producing as much as my other highly paid players.
For that type of money he'd be earning more than Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo and Montagna so I would be expecting a greater output than from any of them to get value for what he's being paid.

How were his stats in 2010 compared to his stats of 2004-2005 when he was earning the huge back-ended contract that saw him on 600k+ in 2009?

 

[Squizz]

whether or not they were formally offered to st kilda is unclear and really doesn't matter. but there is no doubt that collingwood let it be known that goldsack and wellingham were available for trade during the trade period in question. the saints weren't interested in either. if they had been, they only had to inform collingwood accordingly and the ball deal would have been done. it should also be said that north could have got wellingham but also declined

i can tell with you absolute certainty tho that there was interest from within st kilda in the pies nathan brown. they enquired of coll as to whether he would be available under any scenario and were promptly informed that he was not. the story goes that a certain st kilda talisman was overheard after the saints were informed that brown was not avail saying words to the effect of "thank christ, why would we want that spud anyway" while having a coffee with another saints player in clarendon st sth melb

Dunno why you'd bother to ruin the post with the dribble at the end.

No question that Goldsack or Wellingham were offered (note the or).

No question that St Kilda wanted Brown.

North were happy to take Wellingham and offered pick #25. Collingwood then offered #25 and #62 to St Kilda which was declined.

 

[Squizz]

MM - the KissTroll variety of troll lives in an alternate universe where you're allowed to dismiss any reasoning that doesn't suit your arguments - even official statistics are no match.

But part of the strategy is to selectively quote parts of posts, and dribble on endlessly until you give up. Then if you selectively quote back, it will cry "out of context!!!".

And it's never wrong - if you push for an acknowledgement that it has erred you'll end up on it's "ignore list".

I wish more of you guys were on the list. Now we are going to have to disinfect the board.

Assume K knew what he'd done when he made the OP - it's like moths to the porchlight (or in this case pickpockets at a boxing day sale).

 

[crowralph]

The Saints rated around 24 players in that particular draft

In that context pick 30 was as useful as pick 60 something.

sorry to go completely off topic amid my intrusion. but can you re-post this in any of the crows/tambling threads.

also, luke ball is slow and has questionable kicking skills. there is no doubt pies needed his in and under work a lot more than you guys. i have no doubt that he was offered a contract relative to his value to the team. it's unfortunate that saints got nothing for him though. in the end pies got him with 30, so the only loser appears to be saints. however, it could be seen as an investment in future more equitable trading. but when a player wants out, i reckon you just have take what's on offer, unless your nearly certain that he will be picked up by someone else before he gets to your trading foe.

 

[InkerSaint]

Haven't the toothless horde heard of Google, it's amazing the things you can find there if your memory fails you.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/luke-ball-still-up-in-air/story-e6frf9io-1225784579357

 

[AFLOnline]

I don't care what anyone says, I miss him badly and wish the club had of handled him in general a lot better. He was our youngest captain, the prodigal son...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Actually, Luke Ball had 281 contested possessions in 24 matches (11.7 per match), and not 206. Hayes had 305 contested possessions in 25 matches (12.2 per match). Montagna had 286 contested possessions in 26 matches (11.0 per match). Goddard had 262 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.5 per match). Dal Santo had 260 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.4 per match).Absolutely unreliable considering that the AFL web site has stated that Ball had zero contested possessions in the Preliminary Final when he had 14. Considering that massive error, then I don't find them reliable at all, and I would rather use the stats that the coaches use (see above). Therefore, I believe that Ball averaged more contested possessions last season than Montagna, Goddard and Dal Santo as I had originally stated, and I have supplied a source I trust to confirm my opinion.

So there is no official source of Stats and you are the authority of them?
I dont care anyway , its just that you are on my " treat with contempt" list.

 

[mysainters]

I don't care what anyone says, I miss him badly and wish the club had of handled him in general a lot better. He was our youngest captain, the prodigal son...

The side missed him, I wish he had handled it a lot better, being dropped at St Kilda wasn't exclusive to just him.

 

[the emergency]

The side missed him, I wish he had handled it a lot better, being dropped at St Kilda wasn't exclusive to just him.

You say that, but honestly, we have so many of the Luke Ball-esque player at our club. He is a good player, no doubt, but what we were lacking this year was specifically line-breaking pace. He has been a fantastic fit for Collingwood - to the point where he has been added to the leadership group, and good on him, but when push comes to shove, he would've struggled to break into the team this year, not through lack of skill, just because there was far too much competition around him

Also, i think saying he was "sacked" is a little bit extreme - he looked for a new home, and after initially trying to lure him in for a few more years, he declined, after which we were happy to let him go.

Actually, Luke Ball had 281 contested possessions in 24 matches (11.7 per match), and not 206. Hayes had 305 contested possessions in 25 matches (12.2 per match). Montagna had 286 contested possessions in 26 matches (11.0 per match). Goddard had 262 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.5 per match). Dal Santo had 260 contested possessions in 25 matches (10.4 per match).Absolutely unreliable considering that the AFL web site has stated that Ball had zero contested possessions in the Preliminary Final when he had 14. Considering that massive error, then I don't find them reliable at all, and I would rather use the stats that the coaches use (see above). Therefore, I believe that Ball averaged more contested possessions last season than Montagna, Goddard and Dal Santo as I had originally stated, and I have supplied a source I trust to confirm my opinion.

Thank you. You have made your opinion noted. You need not post here anymore. **** off.

 

[krusden]

The side missed him, I wish he had handled it a lot better, being dropped at St Kilda wasn't exclusive to just him.

However you would have thought it was.

He is a player who needed a coach to blow smoke up his ass and tell him how great he is every five seconds a la super coach Thomas.

The only reason we think we actually missed him in any fashion is because he played in a winning gf last year and every player looks better because of that.

I don't think that the side as a whole missed him.

 

[sirviv]

Geez people need to get over this. Plugger went to Sydney, Winmar went to the Bulldogs there was never this much who-ha 18 months on. This is getting very embrassing.

 

[the emergency]

Geez people need to get over this. Plugger went to Sydney, Winmar went to the Bulldogs there was never this much who-ha 18 months on. This is getting very embrassing.

I think we have more or less accepted this and move on - had it not been for this article, the topic would be long since buried, this just takes away the little shroud of mystery as to why he left and under what circumstances it happened. The prevailing opinion here seems to be he's gone, he's going well, good on him

 

[mysainters]

Now Luke's in the leadership group, I wonder what he will tell the boys who are being lured by GWS?

Seriously though, I wish he'd stayed, but I don't think he was happy being Robin at St Kilda, when at Collingwood he could be Batman.