Mega Thread Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation? Everything to do with Dees Tanking goes in here

[stickman11]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

What he actually said was:

"I had no hesitation at all in the first two years of ensuring this club was well placed for draft picks," Bailey said.


http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsartic...6/default.aspx

which means he didn't care about dropping the like of Yze and white even if it meant we'd lose more games through inexperience.

Little different from libba who came out dob your lot in

 

[Ant85]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

This should be investigated, and if found true, Melbourne should be dealt with appropriately (perhaps suspend them from a few drafts ala Carlton's punishment).

Although I don't trust the AFL to run the investigation.

The AFL's last investigation into tanking conveniently found "nothing". I'd prefer an independent investigation.

 

[Hornberger]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

it is a big deal, IMO. it's one of the major problems with this league. the elite league of any sport is not an arena for player development, unless it's the AFL.

Bullshit. So in every other top tier professional league every team tries to win the title every year regardless of how strong their team is?

 

[stickman11]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

This should be investigated, and if found true, Melbourne should be dealt with appropriately (perhaps suspend them from a few drafts ala Carlton's punishment).

Although I don't trust the AFL to run the investigation.

The AFL's last investigation into tanking conveniently found "nothing". I'd prefer an independent investigation.

they can go back and investigate all cases including collingwood

 

[mcgarnacle]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

I doubt the alleged tanking of Carlton, West Coast and Collingwood are in the same league. All of those clubs were just that shit.

Carlton were hamstrung by draft penalties.

but there has always been an issue regarding perception, no matter which club it is. the AFL themselves provided the incentive. and really, no other recruitment alternative is available for genuine improvement. it's just the draft.

 

[Carlton_Blues]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

which means he didn't care about dropping the like of Yze and white even if it meant we'd lose more games through inexperience.

Little different from libba who came out dob your lot in

What it actually means is:

"I had no hesitation at all in the first two years of ensuring this club was well placed for draft picks," Bailey said.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsartic...6/default.aspx

 

[whatboutbob]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

well at least it will all be levelled out when scully walks out

Not if they get two first round picks for him.

The quote is damning, but I assume the AFL will keep their head in the sand.

 

[WCE_phil]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

honestly how the **** does anyone think we tanked last year??? We lost 2 games in the final few rounds due to dodgy umpiring decisions in the last minute. We would have won 6 games unless anyone is trying to suggest the eagles tanked last year with the aid and collusion of the umpires hmmmm?

 

[Barnzy]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

I love how some Melbourne supporters still denied their club tanked even though it was the most blatant tanking in AFL history. Worse than Carlton's IMO. AFL were only denying it and turning a blind it because they didn't want to get into a shitstorm that it would inevitable cause especially with all the media attention in it. We've all learnt by now they're pissweak.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

Bullshit. So in every other top tier professional league every team tries to win the title every year regardless of how strong their team is?

did i say that? i said it shouldnt be an arena for player development.

please give me examples of the elite league of a sport where clubs use it for development. it probably happens, but i obviously dont follow the farce and will make a note not to.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

All tanking does is set your club up for a massive fail. You can't just instill a winning culture overnight.

I've said this time and time again on tanking threads on this board.

there are a lot of people in sports with draft systems that think 'Yeah we lose for a couple of years, stock up on top draft picks, and that guarantees you success', and the AFL is no exception.

The thing that amazes me is that none of them seem to have worked out that tanking for draft picks rarely guarantees success, and that really, it's not about how high your picks are, but how well you use them.

Just on the post I quoted, it really irks me that clubs are willing to do this sort of thing.

One thing i'm proud of as a Geelong supporter is not just that we haven't bottomed out to get a bunch of high picks. It's that from the minute we've got the young blokes we've drafted, we have encouraged them to unleash their competitive instincts. Those instincts have in several games this year been the difference between winning and losing. It's been said several times that our players hate losing with a passion, and will do anything within reason to avoid it. That's the sort of culture we've been missing at our club for it's entire existence until 2006, and it's that sort of attitude why clubs like Essendon and Carlton are rarely away from the pointy end of the season for very long, and why they've won twice the flags we have.

It would sicken me to think my footy club is telling our players 'We don't want to win these games, in fact, we are basically going to legally throw them because we want an extra first round pick.'

What a great way to enhance the players competitive instincts and hunger for a win.

I'd sum it up like this....If you want to win a flag, it should NEVER be ok to lose, no matter how crap your club might be traveling.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

Don't think AFL need to investigate, Melbourne has been paid enough as it is, what would make it worse would be Scully bolting

 

[Brazen]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

Don't think AFL need to investigate, Melbourne has been paid enough as it is, what would make it worse would be Scully bolting

lovin your avatar

 

[Hornberger]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

did i say that? i said it shouldnt.

Why shouldn't? Not every team is capable of winning the title in a given year and some teams are certain take a long term view. No matter how good the development system is nothing replicated playing at the top level.

please give me examples tho. im sure it happens, but i obviously dont follow the farce and will make a note not to.

A 2006 study by one of Australian leading sports economist found no evidence of systematic tanking in the AFL. Similar studies in the USA have found evidence of systematic tanking in the NBA and NFL.

 

[Brazen]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

A 2006 study by one of Australian leading sports economist found no evidence of systematic tanking in the AFL. Similar studies in the USA have found evidence of systematic tanking in the NBA and NFL.

So ahhh... that would be BEFORE the Melbourne tanking, and the evidence of the coach admitting it?

 

[Hornberger]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

So ahhh... that would be BEFORE the Melbourne tanking, and the evidence of the coach admitting it?

Irrelevant. I am saying there is strong evidence of tanking in US sport than the AFL.

 

[stickman11]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

What it actually means is:

"I had no hesitation at all in the first two years of ensuring this club was well placed for draft picks," Bailey said.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsartic...6/default.aspx

well atleast he is honest wich is more than can be said for Rattan.

 

[stickman11]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

Not if they get two first round picks for him.

The quote is damning, but I assume the AFL will keep their head in the sand.

The qoute said do what is the best interests of the club, pretty open. That means Bailey made the decision on his own, quite happy for him to admit to cheating if criminal charges are laid against him for match fixing.

 

[Forward Press]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

well atleast he is honest wich is more than can be said for Rattan.

Given up defending Bailey then?

Carlton's is quite a bit different - they were stripped of draft picks. Denis Pagan topped up his list with recycled hacks - and there's a reason why they were discarded by other clubs. I'm not sure why you mentioned Brett Ratten either.

David Teague won a Carlton best and fairest - that gives you some idea of how utterly crap they were. Only recently have they started to shake the losing culture.

 

[Brazen]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

The qoute said do what is the best interests of the club, pretty open. That means Bailey made the decision on his own, quite happy for him to admit to cheating if criminal charges are laid against him for match fixing.

No, again you fail at reading - the quote said

"I had no hesitation at all in the first two years of ensuring this club was well placed for draft picks,"

 

[stickman11]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

No, again you fail at reading - the quote said

"I had no hesitation at all in the first two years of ensuring this club was well placed for draft picks,"

of cause he wouldn't, he is the coach, his professional standing as a coach counted on him doing that. Lots of people in all business take short cuts to further their career.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

Given up defending Bailey then?

Carlton's is quite a bit different - they were stripped of draft picks. Denis Pagan topped up his list with recycled hacks - and there's a reason why they were discarded by other clubs. I'm not sure why you mentioned Brett Ratten either.

David Teague won a Carlton best and fairest - that gives you some idea of how utterly crap they were. Only recently have they started to shake the losing culture.

I have no doubt that Ratts was told 'Don't win any games and you'll get the job next year. We need those picks.'

I'll never forget Carlton's match against Essendon late in that season. Never seen a side so clearly go out of it's way to make sure they didn't win that football game.

 

[whatboutbob]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

The qoute said do what is the best interests of the club, pretty open. That means Bailey made the decision on his own, quite happy for him to admit to cheating if criminal charges are laid against him for match fixing.

I think it would be naive to try to pin this all on Bailey. From the same article:

"I was asked to do the best thing by the Melbourne Football Club and I did it. I did the right thing by the Melbourne Football Club. I put players in different positions to enable them," he said.

"I think the whole football club agreed we wanted to develop our players so we did."

 

[mrpez]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

Given up defending Bailey then?

Carlton's is quite a bit different - they were stripped of draft picks. Denis Pagan topped up his list with recycled hacks - and there's a reason why they were discarded by other clubs. I'm not sure why you mentioned Brett Ratten either.

David Teague won a Carlton best and fairest - that gives you some idea of how utterly crap they were. Only recently have they started to shake the losing culture.

I'm not sure how you can be opposed to tanking, and then justify saying that its more acceptable in some cases than others.

It should be all or nothing

 

[Forward Press]

Re: Admitted Coaching for Picks - AFL Investigation?

I have no doubt that Ratts was told 'Don't win any games and you'll get the job next year. We need those picks.'

I'll never forget Carlton's match against Essendon late in that season. Never seen a side so clearly go out of it's way to make sure they didn't win that football game.

Really?

Well my memory differs - Carlton were quite crap and it was just a continuation in that Essendon game.

In Melbourne's defence, the personnel they had during 2008 and 2009 were also very inadequate.