Judd: the elephant in the room

[The_JUDDERNAUT]

Time for our lawyers to earn their keep. I reckon he probably deserves 2 weeks because although i'm sure he wasn't thinking of dislocating Adams shoulder, it was reckless and dangerous.

You would think that given their is no real precedent and its hard to define exactly what Judd's intent was there is a chance a good legal team could get him off. Then again i don't know that the tribunal operate in the same way as our legal system, and i guess the media hysteria has sealed his fate, the last thing the AFL will want is to look soft.

 

[16bit]

Great article that one.. spot on!

Agreed, great article

 

[Smeg Head]

If Chris Judd was still at West Coast, the media hysteria and all the hate towards him from oppositions supporters etc would be non existent.

If it happened in a year we were challenging for finals then it would, otherwise they wouldn't care so much.

Bit of a shame guilty or not, watching the game he seemed to be getting back into some better form compared with earlier in the year. Noticeably for me his kicking carried more accuracy and penetration that it has.

 

[dumb]

it's the unusual, open-ended nature of it which has allowed people to tee off against him. if it were a cut and dried striking charge we wouldn't be seeing half the bizarre stuff getting levelled at him. that, and the injury report could be damning.

i have to say i didn't like it. by all means hang onto the guys arm, but he didn't need to bend it behind his back to restrain him. i wouldn't like to see someone like jamo have it done to him.

 

[JustaBattler]

thanks for posting - picture confirms what a loud of BS this anti Judd furore is:

Judd was CLEARLY pulling on Adams arm - in an attempt to do two things

1. roll him over and away from the ball and
2. Stop him being able to clear the balll

Carrazzo falling on Adams stopped Judds pulling being able to turn Adams over; and momentum made the pull look like an intentional backwards movement.

THAT is what happenned- teh free should have been for an in the back by Carrazzzo OR a hold the ball.

the report came from 'a boundary umpire'...

woooppeee doo dooo

Now go back your shinboner hole and talk about how good it was that you thugs smashed Josephs cheekbone.

 

[dumb]

thanks for posting - picture confirms what a loud of BS this anti Judd furore is:

Judd was CLEARLY pulling on Adams arm - in an attempt to do two things

1. roll him over and away from the ball and
2. Stop him being able to clear the balll

Carrazzo falling on Adams stopped Judds pulling being able to turn Adams over; and momentum made the pull look like an intentional backwards movement.

THAT is what happenned- teh free should have been for an in the back by Carrazzzo OR a hold the ball.

the report came from 'a boundary umpire'...

woooppeee doo dooo

Now go back your shinboner hole and talk about how good it was that you thugs smashed Josephs cheekbone.

maybe trying to stop him to get a handball away, but trying to roll him over by the arm, with carrazzo on his back? i can't see that going over too well at the tribunal if he tried that on.

the photo doesn't show that judd already had hold of his arm before the position in the photo. he had hold of adams arm while it was more or less at adams' side before deciding on another course of action.

 

[16bit]

The damage was done 19 secs - 21 secs, arm was moved .....................from the North players grabbing Judd and throwing/pushing him before he got let go.

The hold alone (prior to the Norf players jumping) did not dislocate or do any damage. It followed the Sagittal plane and was a regular adduction movement that wouldn't have caused pain.

Which is exactly the moment the photo above was selectively taken and used to make it look worse than it is.

 

[dumb]

The hold alone did not dislocate or do any damage.

north players might have contributed. but looking at the footage then, i realized people are talking about the bending around. but juddy is pulling the guy's arm up while carrazzo's weight bears down on him. that can't be good for a shoulder.

 

[JustaBattler]

maybe trying to stop him to get a handball away, but trying to roll him over by the arm, with carrazzo on his back? i can't see that going over too well at the tribunal if he tried that on.

the photo doesn't show that judd already had hold of his arm before the position in the photo. he had hold of adams arm while it was more or less at adams' side before deciding on another course of action.

Players get rolled over all teh time by another player dragging on an arm - cant see what the hoo haa is really.
Of course a photo doesnt show what happenned before that 1000th f a second OR after - teh video clearly shows it though
The photo DOES show an arm held upwards and Carrazzo on top- but that only goes to show the dynamic of the situation - how was Judd to know what Carrazzo was going to do and what effect of he doing woudl have - all Judd could control was what he was attempting to do.

IF juddy had stomped on the bloke ( ala HUNT) or had pile driven his shoulder into a blokes FACE like Wellingham or Zeibell - then there would be no argument- strange tough that true thuggery is dismissed but ANT chance to have a go at Judd is embraced by teh whoel football world - really weird really really weird.

 

[Chadwiko]

The damage was done 19 secs - 21 secs, arm was moved .....................from the North players grabbing Judd and throwing/pushing him before he got let go.

The hold alone (prior to the Norf players jumping) did not dislocate or do any damage.

Judd (and Judd alone - prior to any North players touching him) bent Adams shoulder behind his back - an unnatural bend. This is when the dislocation occurs, and when Adams is clearly in the most pain, as evidenced by his legs involuntarily kicking out.

When the North players remonstrate with Judd, Adams' arm is pulled back towards the side/front of his body - a natural bend.

 

[Terex8]

So WHY did their GOOD DOCTORS SEND HIM BACK ON GROUND?

That is a result of the absurd sub rule. Doctors are under an undue pressure to let injured players back onto the ground.

You can pop a shoulder & it's joint back in but it has little structural strength. When it keeps on popping out on a consistent basis, they will operate on it.

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

Haven't read all the posts but the suggestion that Judd was trying to dislocate his arm seem absolutely ridiculous.

Agree that it was a silly thing to do but do not see the malicious intent that people have suggested. If I recall correctly he has a martial arts background and you can see that in a lot of his general football skills. I actually think this contributes significantly to fantastic player he is and I have long wished that all the CFC players trained more formally in this area (know they do the grappling work). Juddy has an amazing appreciation of balance, leverage, momentum and applies this knowledge intuitively in general play. The only thing the hold on the arm reminds me of that has any relevance is a submission hold. These are very commonly used in a number of martial arts and are used in a very careful and precise manner during almost every training session with your training partner (example link).

http://kitakazebudo.blogspot.com.au/2010/04/tall-and-short-of-it-part-2.html

 

[16bit]

Judd (and Judd alone - prior to any North players touching him) bent Adams shoulder behind his back - an unnatural bend. This is when the dislocation occurs,

Incorrect. If you knew anything about science or anatomy you would know nearly all shoulder dislocations are caused from abduction from the sagittal plane.

Watch from 20.5 seconds. That is the movement that caused the "Damage"

 

[le dominateur]

I think Sticks and Ratten are going to be tested regarding this issue - if they roll over quietly - then sorry I no longer support either. W ehave copped some of the most awful umpiring I have ever seen this year- and our players are fair game to any high tackle opportunity out there - not ONE WORD from our Club regarding this - not ONE WORD.

I'm sick of the high bumps fracturing our players jaws and the most the player cops is 3 weeks, not even a free kick for Joseph, thankyou umpire. Nothing in the Judd incident, just a typical anti-Carlton frenzy. Can see Juddy getting 4-6 weeks here in what would be a great injustice. The AFL should concentrate on fixing the diabolical umpiring, sure looked like the umpires backed Norf by 40+ last Friday night.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Judd (and Judd alone - prior to any North players touching him) bent Adams shoulder behind his back - an unnatural bend. This is when the dislocation occurs, and when Adams is clearly in the most pain, as evidenced by his legs involuntarily kicking out.

When the North players remonstrate with Judd, Adams' arm is pulled back towards the side/front of his body - a natural bend.

Unnatural bend only for a player with dodgy shoulders, if you take the field then everyone assumes you are fully fit and everything goes, including tackling!!

 

[16bit]

I am patiently waiting whilst the North supporter googles for anatomical help.

Looking forward to the reply.

 

[koshari]

Smells big time - the whole thing SMELLS big time.

if your suggesting a conspiracy i would suggest the only thing that smells is the stuff you have been smoking,

judds likely best defence statement could likely be the statement patch made on the ABC radio on saturday morning.

 

[Chadwiko]

I am patiently waiting whilst the North supporter googles for anatomical help.

Looking forward to the reply.

Don't need Google. But evidence is coming that proves your whole "the injury happened when the North guys pushed Judd" wrong.

 

[16bit]

Don't need Google. But evidence is coming that proves your whole "the injury happened when the North guys pushed Judd" wrong.

Are you referring to North's medical report? It's simply that. A medical report of the player. Any thoughts of the cause of the injury will be pure speculation.

 

[16bit]

"Adams' shoulder is twisted a "long way" behind his back."

Excellent medical terminology. I would place a good bet neither a doctor or physio gave these observations

HARD evidence?? If North rock up to the tribunal with these pictures as proof, I'm pretty sure they'll give Adams 3 weeks

 

[16bit]

Answer this - if Carrots is not on Adams back is there any damage done?

Please don't....This North guy probably googles his symptoms when he has a common cold thinking it might be SARS.

I've only just stopped laughing. These photos of medical hard proof, with medically accurate captions are delightfully funny.

 

[The Coach]

Please don't....This North guy probably googles his symptoms when he has a common cold thinking it might be SARS.

I've only just stopped laughing. These photos of medical hard proof, with medically accurate captions are delightfully funny.

Nah - he does not want to answer it

 

[The Coach]

Nah - he does not want to answer it

Come on Chad baby - you have been obsessed with our board all day and you are still on line SO

 

[JustaBattler]

We shudl switch to Bay13 language- it is the language these trolls and boofs understand best.

Every week teh media beast needs a new BIg story - very week more and more HYPE...feeding teh children wh read teh stuff- NOT ONE WORD from these GOONS about their pre-game threats of ZIebell high tackling Murphy - and moreimportantly - nt one word from norfs posters about Joseph hit - which was intentional and DOG ike just liek WWelham from previosu week..

all started with Bomber filth crowing about going hard at Carton - seems that AFL atually SANCTIONS this stuff on Carlton.

 

[Silvagnis]

"Adams' shoulder is twisted a "long way" behind his back."

Excellent medical terminology. I would place a good bet neither a doctor or physio gave these observations

HARD evidence?? If North rock up to the tribunal with these pictures as proof, I'm pretty sure they'll give Adams 3 weeks

Please don't....This North guy probably googles his symptoms when he has a common cold thinking it might be SARS.

I've only just stopped laughing. These photos of medical hard proof, with medically accurate captions are delightfully funny.

On par with Melbourne's power point presentation to Warnock.