Players that nominate one club.

[OB1]

The Chalmers incident was different, although you're stretching my memory. There's a difference between saying you'll only play for one club, and not allowing each club to interview/test you.

Anyway, cases like Ball's won't be common anymore with the introduction of FA.

How is what Ball did any different? His management stated he was only interetsed in playing for Collingwood & would not speak to any other club or allows tests - that is clearly tampering with what a draft is supposed to be. Again I have no problem with Ball stating he is only seeking a trade to 1 club BUT when that fails & you choose to enter a draft then you should agree to be drafted without compromise. It should make no difference if you are an 18 year old kid or a 200 game vetran - a draft should not be compromised. Clubs should be free to select whom they deem is the best available player without threats of sitting out or retirement. This is the same thing Chalmers did. Yes other clubs still could have drafted Chalmers but they were frightened off. If there is no rule against this then whats to stop clubs doing the same thing with kids (as Collingwood did with Chamlers & tried with Rocca)? Also why will free agency stop it when players have to wait years to qualify for FA? Wellingham for example wants to go to WC but doesn't qualify for FA so they need to work out a trade. Why should WC do this if they can just get Wellingham to nominate for the draft & make a threat (directly if there is no rule or indirectly if, as I suspect ,there is a rule) that he will sit out a year if any other club selects him. He doesn't have to actually be willing to sit out but it holds a gun to every other clubs head. Do you really think thats how it should work?

Stevens is the example of whats supposed to happen. He wanted to go to Collingwood, they couldn't broker a deal so Stevens went into the PSD. Carlton had the 1st pick so they rightfully took him. IF he had of done what Ball did then that IMHO would have also been tampering.

 

[bombermick]

Ball never said he'd retire, Chalmers did.

Ball certainly broke the spirit of the rules, but the AFL wouldn't have been able to get him for draft tampering. Besides, they never would have taken an intelligent guy like Ball on - or a court would have destroyed the draft and salary cap.

 

[OB1]

Ball never said he'd retire, Chalmers did.

Ball certainly broke the spirit of the rules, but the AFL wouldn't have been able to get him for draft tampering. Besides, they never would have taken an intelligent guy like Ball on - or a court would have destroyed the draft and salary cap.

Ball (through his management) did threaten to sit out. The following year Tarrant threatened to retire, Chamlers threated to not go to any other club & Rocca carried out his threat to leave at the 1st opportunity. I'm seeing a pattern here & it looks like draft tampering to me. Seriously if we are going to let a player or clubs' veiled threats of possible court action compromise drafts & the salary cap then we might as well disband the comp now. The AFL can & should have clearer contractual conditions on all drafts (you have to nominate & be accepted into the draft). Ball should not have been allowed to enter the draft with a prejudiced outcome manipulated - it is, as I keep stating, not only against the spirit of the rules, its against the basic pricinples of a draft & also compromises the trading process.

I get that the AFL are too pissweak to have clear rules & enforce them but I'd just like to have a clearer idea of what the rules actually are & if tampering is OK then we need to get on board. The AFL should, at the very least have made an effort to close these explotations

 

[JackOutback]

I don't have a problem with players nominating the clubs they want to play for, and I say that as a fan of a team that lost Judd and Ebert to the phenomenon. We already expect 17 year old kids to go anywhere in the country to play for any club, with absolutely no say in their professional career.

I know that we are fans of clubs and not players (generally) but they are human beings who should be allowed to have some say in who they play for (a club, a coach, a city etc).

 

[kranky al]

We have also - in fairness, done quite well out of players coming home...

 

[Lord Nicholson]

The fact that players can do this is extraordinary to me. Makes a mockery of the whole concept of a draft.

They should be able to pick a state, and be no more specific than that.

 

[JackOutback]

The fact that players can do this is extraordinary to me. Makes a mockery of the whole concept of a draft.

They should be able to pick a state, and be no more specific than that.

I find it extraordinary that you think players should have no say whatsoever in who they play for. If someone grew up as a lifelong fan of essendon and always wanted to play for them, shouldn't they have the opportunity to do so?

The draft is about equalisation, but after that, they are people with their own goals, ambitions etc.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

I find it extraordinary that you think players should have no say whatsoever in who they play for. If someone grew up as a lifelong fan of essendon and always wanted to play for them, shouldn't they have the opportunity to do so?

The draft is about equalisation, but after that, they are people with their own goals, ambitions etc.

Why even have the draft, then?

Just to make life difficult for people?

Equalisation is rendered a bit of a joke when players can pick and choose to go direct to a successful club. If you nominate for the draft you know what you're getting into. You can either chose to play for whoever picks you, or play in your bush league.

 

[JackOutback]

Why even have the draft, then?

Just to make life difficult for people?

Equalisation is rendered a bit of a joke when players can pick and choose to go direct to a successful club. If you nominate for the draft you know what you're getting into. You can either chose to play for whoever picks you, or play in your bush league.

I don't think equalisation is a joke simply because some people nominate clubs...it can still be pretty difficult to get exactly where you want to. It's a balancing act between equalisation and giving players some say over their career. Clubs shouldn't be able to treat them as cattle, shuttling them between states just because it serves their interests.

 

[Agent93]

Unlike most other professional sports that involve trading, we require the player/s in question to agree to the move.

I don't see why this is the case. If it's in the CBA, the AFL should throw this out, in exchange for looser free agency rules. Here's some changes I'd like to see to facilitate player movement, without handcuffing clubs:

1. Restrict national draft to players under 20, who have never been drafted. Abolish pre-season draft.
Why? Prevent players ransoming teams in conjunction with other changes. Keeps the national draft to be purely a way to obtain the rights to new young players.

2. AFL clubs only draft rights to players, are not obliged to add them to list. Rights held for 2 years.
Why? That kid you drafted pick #65 may be a list clogger. Let him plug away in the V/SAN/WA FLs to prove worth.

3. Creation of senior and minor lists. Reduction of senior list size, increase in total contract size. Abolish 'rookie' list. Senior list payments count to salary cap.
Why? Allow clubs flexibility over their squads and salary caps. Inured players no longer count.

4. Drop the number of seasons requirement for UFAs and replace an age (24/25ish) or games (100... see F/S rule) requirement.
Why? Give the players an ability to move if they want to. Also allows 'mature-age' recruits UFA privileges (eg. James Podsiadly currently has no way to move from Geelong if he wants, same with Ian Callinan and Adelaide).

5. If necessary keep the top 25% RFA category. Add RFA category for out of contract players who do not meet the age or games requirement.
Why? Clubs want some compo for losing superstars. Young players want to move as well (see Caddy / Stevens / Wellingham). There's no reason they should be restricted if out of contract, or should have to re-negotiate the draft.

6. Clubs who sign RFAs forfeit draft picks as compensation based on average annual salary of RFA's contract.
Why? You poach, you pay. And it stops the below. Also stops the hand-wringing over what is fair compensation if it is listed and written. (eg. Goddard goes for huge contract, Essendon forfeit 1st and 2nd round picks to St Kilda in following year's draft, 2013 in this case).

7. No other magical fairy compensation draft picks.
Why? The hardcore AFL fans are sick of the AFL screwing with the draft. The less invested have no idea what is going on and it puts them off. The casual don't care. The only advantage to the fairy picks is keeping some clubs happy.

8. Abolish trade period. Add trade deadline / free agent deadlines which end mid season.
Why? Drop the restriction. Remove the want for a mid season draft. Allow teams with an early season ending injury to LTI the player and sign a free agent from the V/SAN/WA FLs if they want to cover and have the contract and salary space.

Lastly, get some god damned tampering rules written up a la the assistant coach rules.

 

[Superstar swan]

It sucks for the club but it is what it is. What gets me is people bang on about loyalty. There is no loyalty in afl. If u are not a proven star and have a couple of injury prone years u will be delisted by the club, they won't say oh he's had a bit of bad luck lets keep him round and give him a go. If the club does not want u they will cut u.... Where is the loyalty in that

 

[andypie]

But 21 or 25 was never offered. It was 30 which WE didn't want.

Edited for accuracy

 

[DanA]

Luke Ball was a board member of the AFL players association. You can be damn sure he new how far he could stretch the rules and that the AFL would be extremely hesitant to punish him.

 

[Didak_attack]

They should be able to pick a state, and be no more specific than that.

That still limits 4 options to only 2 teams (and a few years ago 2 options 1 team). Still fairly restricted isn't it?

If that was the case, when it came to nominating Victoria, they should be able to nominate just 2 teams, not the whole state?

 

[Lord Nicholson]

That still limits 4 options to only 2 teams (and a few years ago 2 options 1 team). Still fairly restricted isn't it?

If that was the case, when it came to nominating Victoria, they should be able to nominate just 2 teams, not the whole state?

Might be a part of the offset of travelling every second week.

It's two options, but unless both sides are really up and firing the fact that there are two options makes it a little fairer.

 

[jakson68]

The whole trade for Ball has been mythical at best. The point is how he got to Collingwood.

He got through to Collingwood because he put a high price on his head for the first year and only a limited number of clubs had the room in their cap to match it. Out of these club, some didn't need him and the others thought better of it, for one reason or another.

 

[The Finger]

He got through to Collingwood because he put a high price on his head for the first year and only a limited number of clubs had the room in their cap to match it. Out of these club, some didn't need him and the others thought better of it, for one reason or another.

You have no idea what happened do you?

 

[Bay Pie]

Wellingham nominated one club.

If you have a shit culture, players are prepared to walk for nothing. If you have a decent one, players more likely to get a deal suitable to all.

Ball, Goddard, Cripps all walk out on club, yet Gilbert stays....hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Furn2]

Look the Saints screwed up in hindsight but that doesn't make what Ball did right.

If you choose to enter the draft you should have to make yourself available for interviews and medicals to ny club that asks, otherwise it opens up a huge can of worms.

What if Wellingham did the same thing ?

 

[The Finger]

Wellingham nominated one club.

If you have a shit culture, players are prepared to walk for nothing. If you have a decent one, players more likely to get a deal suitable to all.

Ball, Goddard, Cripps all walk out on club, yet Gilbert stays....hmmmmmmmmmm.

Beams,Didak,Shaw, and the cleaner basher Swan say hi........

 

[jakson68]

You have no idea what happened do you?

And I guess you are good mates with Luke, so you would have all the answers.

 

[The Finger]

And I guess you are good mates with Luke, so you would have all the answers.

I know what you said is rubbish. Ball was wanted by other clubs but due to Ball and Collingwood manipulating the draft no one had access to him. Fact

 

[jakson68]

I know what you said is rubbish. Ball was wanted by other clubs but due to Ball and Collingwood manipulating the draft no one had access to him. Fact

I know you need to get a hobby. Fact.
Sit down, grab a tissue, calm yourself down, then go build a bridge and get over it ffs.
We got him! We offered a fair trade, it was knocked back, he went into the draft and somehow got through to pick 30.
I guess we were just lucky.

 

[harro92]

I know you need to get a hobby. Fact.
Sit down, grab a tissue, calm yourself down, then go build a bridge and get over it ffs.
We got him! We offered a fair trade, it was knocked back, he went into the draft and somehow got through to pick 30.
I guess we were just lucky.

The only reason he fell to pick 30 was because he refused to do interviews and medicals with any other team & no one would take a risk with out medicals and interviews. He found a loophoel and used it so he got drafted at pick 30, some say its draft tampering, some say he was just smart enough to work the draft system

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

What are peoples thoughts on players that openly nominate a club they want to be traded to? Really holds their current club to randsom I feel and often means a fair trade cant be done. Should it be allowed as it could be seen as draft tampering.

Its called a trade. Not a draft.

You cant tamper with the draft in a trade. They are totally different things

Players have the right to nominate a trade to any club they want to play for. They know and understand that the trade wont always happen but they have the right to refuse to get traded somewhere they dont want to go. Its up to them to make that call and its a right that should be respected. Should they not get their way then they have to review their options....pick another club, stay at their existing club, or roll the dice in the draft.