Mega Thread AFL to investigate Essendon for controversial fitness program - PART3

[Flawed Genius]

But if in fact it does come out that anything like that has occurred, it would be a disgraceful turn of events. I still can't imagine it would be condoned from the top, but regardless, if it turns out that players were administered illegal substances without their knowledge or consent, then the leadership of the club is untenable. That goes without saying, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

Who goes? Robson, Hird? Thompson?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I do wonder, would we have heard truth from him if he'd remained on Essendons list?

No, we would have heard from somebody else. Thats the thing with systematic cheating, you have to rely on people keeping their mouths shut long after they have left your team. Just ask Lance Armstrong.

 

[mike14]

Who goes? Robson, Hird? Thompson?

All of them, unless they could somehow prove that they put enough checks and balances in place but someone (Dank) still got around them, and that's incredibly unlikely

 

[Gavin Excell]

How long before its known if what Essendon been injecting with banned substances?

 

[Grizzly_82]

It's legal for a 62 year old bloke to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Creepy as all feck, disreputable (arguably), but legal.

Lots of things can be "legal" in AFL but still be considered to bring the game into disrepute.


Just sayin'.

I remember a case a few years ago where a father was abusing his daughter and made/force her sign consent forms before raping her.

He showed the consents forms to the police whilst being interview and were told that doesn't make said illegal acts legal.

Different scenario but once again the consent/waiver forms does absolved the club or players if the substance is a banned substances. And pleading ignorance to said substances/injections will not be a valid defence to ASADA as they place the onus on the athletics and clubs to make sure all practises are above board.

In short if the substance tested I dictated that is it a banned substance the club and players are in deep deep trouble.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Could it be possible that they just didn't check what was going on until it already had happened?

Although I have been constantly repeating my story which, if true, condemns practices at Essendon, I find it almost impossible to think the club (Hird, Robson etc) would knowingly condone it.

Its just like your kids breaking the law. As a parent you should have been able to control them but sometimes things happen and you've taken your eyes off the ball.

I think the penalties are too rigid in this area. Just my humble opinion.

 

[yodellinhank]

Whatever happens many on this board should apologise to Reimers.

He was simply the messenger and he was shot repeatedly for nothing else but speaking the truth as he saw it without malice in his own way. Good on him.

He spoke the truth as he saw it, just happened that it wasn't the truth. His lack of understanding on what had gone on added unwarranted fuel to the fire.

 

[TerryWallet]

"The Fish Rots At The Head" - Tim Watson.

Either David Evans takes swift action to rid the people under him ... or he goes himself very very soon.

 

[mike14]

"The Fish Rots At The Head" - Tim Watson.

Either David Evans takes swift action to rid the people under him ... or he goes himself very very soon.

You'd think they'd wait until the results of the investigation come out

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Who goes? Robson, Hird? Thompson?

mate you'll forgive my reluctance to deal in hypotheticals of this nature. All I can say is that if I was in charge of an organisation and catastrophic illegal activity occurred, I would consider my position untenable.

It really depends on the nature of what's gone on. If it was Dank who did it, unbeknownst to the club and without their imprimatur, then the Robinson should be gone, and Thompson as well. Hird and Robson would be borderline in that scenario for mine. Impossible to say.

If there was any of it condoned from the club itself outside a rogue operator, then all bets are off. The lot of them would have to go. I don't see how you could argue anything else.

Again, I'm pretty optimisitic we'll be found to be guilty of nothing more than a few dicey adminisitration practices from the good "doctor" Dank, but let's see.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

ok, so let me see if I have this right. Essentially little has changed today, except for a more explicit outline of the charges facing Essendon and another club. There's been no outcome of any investigation, just more information around the one we all knew was going on.

What I will say is that whilst nothing is proved, the nature of the charges Essendon are facing are heinous to say the least, and certainly concerning. I'm not sure I'm too much more concerned than I was yesterday, but IF it is found out that the club gave players illegal performance enhancing drugs then it would reprehensible in the extreme and no sane person could condone it.

I've been pretty strong on the fact that if the club are going to produce legal documents then there is no way in hell you would be using those to cover illegal activity, and I still can't believe they would do that. So that still keeps my confidence high.

But if in fact it does come out that anything like that has occurred, it would be a disgraceful turn of events. I still can't imagine it would be condoned from the top, but regardless, if it turns out that players were administered illegal substances without their knowledge or consent, then the leadership of the club is untenable. That goes without saying, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

Let's see what happens. I'm still pretty comfortable we'll be found to be ok - the outlining of an investigation is not the outcome of the investigation, and posters should do well to remember that

I'd be worried if I were you.

The AFL is doing all they can to channel attention towards Essendon. Whether you guys did anything wrong is a different issue to being in their gun. Your the scapegoat and I think they'll claim a scalp eventually.

 

[Gavin Excell]

"The Fish Rots At The Head" - Tim Watson.

Either David Evans takes swift action to rid the people under him ... or he goes himself very very soon.

Yes a statement or something needs to come from the club very soon you'd think.

Essendon members themselves may demand it

 

[TerryWallet]

You'd think they'd wait until the results of the investigation come out

There is already a weight of evidence of shithouse attitudes and practices.

 

[Tigerland]

Wowee. This is a horrible story for my club, the AFL and sport in general. The only thing worse has been the mass hysteria in the media, and on this board.

To my understanding, these are the only "facts" to hand at this stage:

- Essendon are being investigated for possible PED usage
- Whether or not the substances ingested/injected are legal or not, the players involved appear to have believed they were legal
- it is unclear how many staff within the club were aware of the content of these substances

Best case scenario for the club is that Dank went rogue, and in trying to build the players up, (or in trying to repair their bodies, and save his job after the injury crisis hit), deceived everyone at the club as to the content of the substances.

That scenario seems unlikely, and even if it eventuated, I have no idea what sanctions would be levelled at the players and club.

Realistically though, there have been no facts added to this debate since last Thursday.

I tend to think your downplaying the seriousness of this but I believe you are correct that not much has come out since Thursday - other than it's Essendon and 1 other Club with major concerns.

Sadly for the players they would still be gulity if found to be doped without their knowledge. If it was an aliby to not know the full extent of what was going on then it would be used a lot wouldn't you think. I didn't know there were injected me with banned substances! They said they were vitamins! Won't fly even if true.

It's very bad for Essendon. It's now just a matter of how bad, how many players (if any) are affected.
Even even they escape any penalty the stigma will stay with the club and cost millions in PR over the coming years.

In the worst case scenerio and there has been an infrigement, from what I have read, if the players have been doped without knowledge and they assist with the investigation then a 2 year ban could become a 6 month ban. Which is hardly good as it wipes out the entire year and ruins player development. More than 6 months would end careers, stall them and bring the club to it's knees.
It's worth remembering that a ASADA ban would be a total ban. No VFL, no local Club nothing.

As a lover of AFL I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy, and although I find it slightly amusing I do hope the Bombers are totally cleared.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Ch9 news running with:

"Essendon named: the AFL confirms Bombers players may have been given PEDs without their knowledge"

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

I think the penalties are too rigid in this area. Just my humble opinion.

I think the penalties are harsh. Incredibly harsh. And will/would have far reaching effects that no workplace should be able to impose.

However, leniency would provide a loophole. I guess it's one of the painful truths associated with professional sport.

 

[Sam The Doc]

Ch9 news running with:

"Essendon named: the AFL confirms Bombers players may have been given PEDs without their knowledge"

Get the players off the hook.

 

[strobe00]

No, we would have heard from somebody else. Thats the thing with systematic cheating, you have to rely on people keeping their mouths shut long after they have left your team. Just ask Lance Armstrong.

Which is a big part of the reason why he didn't allow non-PED users in the team.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Ch9 news running with:

"Essendon named: the AFL confirms Bombers players may have been given PEDs without their knowledge"

sums it up really. There's no new evidence, it's simply an outline of the investigation that was already going on

 

[Powerade 08]

ok, so let me see if I have this right. Essentially little has changed today

Yeah you're right Lance. Things were looking bleak before and they are still looking bleak now.

Lets just hope these unknown substances were not on the WADA banned list and that the players are still allowed to play football.

 

[LargeFooty]

I'm still pretty comfortable we'll be found to be ok -

How comfortable?

How about I give you 5/1 you won't be ok? What can you afford?

We can gauge your comfort level by the amount ....

 

[bacon buster]

Not sure whether I read this as the AFL protecting us, and by extension1, itself, with this stance.

I really would like to get to the bottom of this sooner rather than later, because I'd really like to start looking forward to this footy season :/

 

[yodellinhank]

There is already a weight of evidence of shithouse attitudes and practices.

Go on...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yeah you're right Lance. Things were looking bleak before and they are still looking bleak now.

Lets just hope these unknown substances were not on the WADA banned list and that the players are still allowed to play football.

yeah, with less than a week to go before our first NAB cup game I'd far rather be thinking about that

 

[Lance Uppercut]

How comfortable?

How about I give you 5/1 you won't be ok? What can you afford?

We can gauge your comfort level by the amount ....

yeah good one. With the most extensive investigation into sport, illegal drugs, match fixing, and betting, this country has ever seen, this muppet wants to make a bet with me.

L. O. L.