This false dawn is gonna hurt the most

[tropicaltiger]

Just prepare yourselves.

Look at the the ladder, look at the draw, look at the way we have performed in bigger games this year.

We won even threaten finals - let alone play in them.

We should be further advanced than this

yeah mate, id like to believe you

 

[cairo tiger]

Plenty of substance... You just need to read between the lines a little better.

But I'll give you a hint

In 3 and a half years Hardwick has failed to develop a single player.

Our best 22 is a combination of these existing players:
Chris Newman, Brett Deledio, Trent Cotchin, Alex Rance, Jack Riewoldt, Shane Edwards, Jake King, Nathan Foley, Tyrone Vickery, Shane Tuck, Luke McGuane, Robin Nahas, Matt White and Daniel Jackson were all at Richmond before he arrived.

These top draft picks:
Martin, Conca, Batchelor, Ellis, Vlastuin
+ Grimes lucky preseason pickup.
These experienced recruits:
Houli, Grigg, Maric, Chaplin, Knights, Petterd, Stephenson, Lonergan.

The rest of the players appear to be doing the opposite of developing.

To only have one late pick or rookie pickup over the past 4 drafts in our best 22 is pretty poor development.

yup you have been saying what I have been saying. serious concerns on our coaching staff to take us up the ladder, we want to be a bottom 8 team stick with dimma and his men

 

[tropicaltiger]

it's time to face reality we have a problem - we keep getting beaten by the better teams, over and over again.

Dont criticise what you can't understand Terry Tan..

And don't speak too soon for the wheels still in spin..
And there's no tellin who that its naming..
For the loser now, will be later too win..............

2009, most teams used too flog the crap out of us

2010 all teams were better than us even the dees, but we had a crack.
and the dogs and saints would still belt us.

2011 years ago we crept past a few strugglers

2012 we became competitive and, even flogged the grand finalists
until our young bodies got tired and just missed finals.

2013 top teams now take us seriously so their very hard to beat, as we can match them for talent now but not yet for experience, poise or consistancy. we are clearly not quite their yet but we have youth on our side in our 4 losses each game was taken from our grasp by super players 27 years+who have been there and done that....

I speak of Cloke, Bartell, McFarlin & Watson, We only have Newman and Tucky as our warriors at the moment and as valiant as they are cannot be compared to the above.. In a few years we may have 4 or 5 of them, even more... so until then keep your eyes wide and support the Tigers...

FOR THE TIMES THEY ARE -A- CHANGIN...

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Plenty of substance... You just need to read between the lines a little better.

But I'll give you a hint

In 3 and a half years Hardwick has failed to develop a single player.

Our best 22 is a combination of these existing players:
Chris Newman, Brett Deledio, Trent Cotchin, Alex Rance, Jack Riewoldt, Shane Edwards, Jake King, Nathan Foley, Tyrone Vickery, Shane Tuck, Luke McGuane, Robin Nahas, Matt White and Daniel Jackson were all at Richmond before he arrived.

These top draft picks:
Martin, Conca, Batchelor, Ellis, Vlastuin
+ Grimes lucky preseason pickup.
These experienced recruits:
Houli, Grigg, Maric, Chaplin, Knights, Petterd, Stephenson, Lonergan.

The rest of the players appear to be doing the opposite of developing.

To only have one late pick or rookie pickup over the past 4 drafts in our best 22 is pretty poor development.

When you are wrong, you really are wrong.

1) the prior to dimmas arrival players you listed as being irrelevant should not be, because several have had significant improvement or role redevelopment under his time:

Shane Edwards - went from being a player with an occasional cameo to one who is an important element of our midfield rotation, and our of our best key forwards (only a few years ago people wanted him delisted)

Jake King - continued the development of the new role he was giving under Jade to the point now where he is one of our most important forwards thanks to his discipline, leadership, goal sense, and forward defensive pressure

Shane Tuck - controversially dropped several times under Dimma for one thing, failure to follow team rules. A guy who was nortorious for getting the pill but banging it anywhere (usually to disadvantage) has become our most important inside mid outside Cotch

Luke McGuane - career in the scrap heap as a defender, is in our first 22 now as a defensive forward

Daniel Jackson - often a liability thanks to poor disposal and brain farts, these elements have been significantly reduced from his game, i wanted him out, but he has been one of our better performing mids this year

2) so then let's look at all the new players recruited during Dimmas time, and see who has failed to develop (again ill ignore for rounders as you wanted):

WORKED
Grimes - injury plagued, but imo our most skilled defender
Batchelor - consistency could be better, but is in our first 22 and is a reliable defender
Houli - gone from being erratic under efc, to one of our most important plays is setting up our hb attack
Morris - SANFL meh to backline gun
Maric - ruck who failed to be a first or second ruck option (MANY didnt want him here on this basis) to our regular first ruck
Pettard - failed HFF turned successfully into a HBF

PENDING
Griffiths - injury effected, needs to step up soon
Astbury - recent injuries have taken him out of first 22, believe he will be starting again soon, massive talent
Dea - filling depth roles right now, but progressing well given his previous lack of footy experience
Nahas - needs to show more IMO, looking tough right now but he is getting a game
Helbig - has been restricted by injury (every time he was ready for promotion, pow), hardly dimmas fault
Elton - still developing, but showing very good promise
Arnot - injury effected, but on the verge of selection if he canbe more disciplined
O'Hanlon - needs more development, but showed a lot when elevated in injury plagued sides
Darrou - unlikely, but still swinging
Verrier - still developing, and has come close to selection several times
McIntosh - first year, developing and will take time
McBean - first year player and showing great promise
McDonough - first year player and showing promise
Lonergan - needs to improve poor disposal, hopes not high tbh
Williams - first year rookie, will take time

FAILED
Taylor - wanted to get a house for free
Webberly - tried hard, but didnt have the tools
Nason - tried hard but didnt have the tools
Browne - tried hard but didn't have the tools
Hicks - failed
Contin - failed
Roberts - failed
Westhoff - failed
macDonald - walked out
Derrickx - mature pick gamble that hasn't paid off
Gourdis - failed
Jakobi - failed rookie
Hislop - failed (I was a fan, and maintain injury was a major issue for this)
Maric - failed to get any consistency
Turner - failed
Wright - failed

IRRELEVANT
Polak - career ruined by the tram hit
Miller - short term role player to cover lack of average forwards
Knights - talent already proven
Chaplin - talent already proven
Edwards - short term role player to cover Kpf injury
Stephenson - short term ruck injury cover

So contrary to your claim, some players outside first round picks have developed, and the number still developing is quite significant. It takes more than one preseason for most players to be good enough to compete in the afl, and given our massive list turn over we need to remain patient. We have undergone a massive rebuild.

 

[Bojangles17]

Bo we were older than Ess on Sat night. Clutching at positivity straws.

Records, That still doesn't dispel the comment i made that our best core of players are all very young.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Your failed list is pretty spot on RfC74 , the scary thing for me is they were identified as failures and not up to it very quickly . Why were brought into the club when it was so quickly identified that they weren't likey to ever reach AFL standard .? To me that is an exhibition of terrible drafting and as such the last remainding sole upon the football department should be gone .

 

[cairo tiger]

When you are wrong, you really are wrong.

1) the prior to dimmas arrival players you listed as being irrelevant should not be, because several have had significant improvement or role redevelopment under his time:

Shane Edwards - went from being a player with an occasional cameo to one who is an important element of our midfield rotation, and our of our best key forwards (only a few years ago people wanted him delisted)

Jake King - continued the development of the new role he was giving under Jade to the point now where he is one of our most important forwards thanks to his discipline, leadership, goal sense, and forward defensive pressure

Shane Tuck - controversially dropped several times under Dimma for one thing, failure to follow team rules. A guy who was nortorious for getting the pill but banging it anywhere (usually to disadvantage) has become our most important inside mid outside Cotch

Luke McGuane - career in the scrap heap as a defender, is in our first 22 now as a defensive forward

Daniel Jackson - often a liability thanks to poor disposal and brain farts, these elements have been significantly reduced from his game, i wanted him out, but he has been one of our better performing mids this year

2) so then let's look at all the new players recruited during Dimmas time, and see who has failed to develop (again ill ignore for rounders as you wanted):

WORKED
Grimes - injury plagued, but imo our most skilled defender
Batchelor - consistency could be better, but is in our first 22 and is a reliable defender
Houli - gone from being erratic under efc, to one of our most important plays is setting up our hb attack
Morris - SANFL meh to backline gun
Maric - ruck who failed to be a first or second ruck option (MANY didnt want him here on this basis) to our regular first ruck
Pettard - failed HFF turned successfully into a HBF

PENDING
Griffiths - injury effected, needs to step up soon
Astbury - recent injuries have taken him out of first 22, believe he will be starting again soon, massive talent
Dea - filling depth roles right now, but progressing well given his previous lack of footy experience
Nahas - needs to show more IMO, looking tough right now but he is getting a game
Helbig - has been restricted by injury (every time he was ready for promotion, pow), hardly dimmas fault
Elton - still developing, but showing very good promise
Arnot - injury effected, but on the verge of selection if he canbe more disciplined
O'Hanlon - needs more development, but showed a lot when elevated in injury plagued sides
Darrou - unlikely, but still swinging
Verrier - still developing, and has come close to selection several times
McIntosh - first year, developing and will take time
McBean - first year player and showing great promise
McDonough - first year player and showing promise
Lonergan - needs to improve poor disposal, hopes not high tbh
Williams - first year rookie, will take time

FAILED
Taylor - wanted to get a house for free
Webberly - tried hard, but didnt have the tools
Nason - tried hard but didnt have the tools
Browne - tried hard but didn't have the tools
Hicks - failed
Contin - failed
Roberts - failed
Westhoff - failed
macDonald - walked out
Derrickx - mature pick gamble that hasn't paid off
Gourdis - failed
Jakobi - failed rookie
Hislop - failed (I was a fan, and maintain injury was a major issue for this)
Maric - failed to get any consistency
Turner - failed
Wright - failed

IRRELEVANT
Polak - career ruined by the tram hit
Miller - short term role player to cover lack of average forwards
Knights - talent already proven
Chaplin - talent already proven
Edwards - short term role player to cover Kpf injury
Stephenson - short term ruck injury cover

So contrary to your claim, some players outside first round picks have developed, and the number still developing is quite significant. It takes more than one preseason for most players to be good enough to compete in the afl, and given our massive list turn over we need to remain patient. We have undergone a massive rebuild.

OMG if you believe this assessment lord help us.
I would argue that this coaching group have not developed the players strengths at all.
ellis maybe. edwards maybe.

please explain how cotchin, delidio and martin have gone backwards.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

OMG if you believe this assessment lord help us.
I would argue that this coaching group have not developed the players strengths at all.
ellis maybe. edwards maybe.

please explain how cotchin, delidio and martin have gone backwards.

One thing I like about you Cairo is your consistency, always willing to ignore facts to make your point:

Cotchin - In the first 1-2 years of drafting him many were asking why, because he could barely get on the paddock with his achilles issues. Last year he nearly won a brownlow. So yes, a massive decline in his output. He has had a sub par (for him) 2013, but most believe he is carrying an injury.

Deledio - Early on was consigned to HBF because it was the only place he could impact upon the opposition. Now is running in the middle most games and is one of our more damaging outside players

Martin - Great impact player who could never play 4 quarters. This season has been regularly doing it with smarter use of rotations.

But yeah, other than that all three have seen their careers go backwards under Dimma

This is the type of over the top reactionary garbage which is why our club is a stereotype cliche in the media.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Your failed list is pretty spot on RfC74 , the scary thing for me is they were identified as failures and not up to it very quickly . Why were brought into the club when it was so quickly identified that they weren't likey to ever reach AFL standard .? To me that is an exhibition of terrible drafting and as such the last remainding sole upon the football department should be gone .

Some part yes, but I think you need to pull it a part further:

DICKHEADS
Taylor
MacDonald

DEVELOPMENT ROOKIES
Browne
Hicks
Contin
Roberts
Westhoff
Gourdis
Jakobi
Turner
Wright

CHEAP MATURE BODIES
Webberly
Nason
Derrickx

REFURBISHMENTS
Hislop
Maric

The dickheads, well its the old talent versus risk equation. The talent for both was high, so the risk was a calculated one. I remember at the time a ton of questions on Taylor in particular, we knew it was a risk. I don't mind these, as long as they don't dominate drafting.

The cheap mature bodies is a consequence of our massive cleanout. We just needed foot soldiers to take the abuse in games while we properly developed our kids at Coburg. We saw with Tambling what happens when you rush that process. Thankfully a combination our list returning to some semblance of balance, and FA means this route will be rare now.

The refurbishments were risks. Maric was always a chance, the hope being it was more about MFC poor development than him, it was him though. I still maintain Hislop could have been decent, but his consistency due to injury was shot.

The legit question is the development rookies. A lot of these were not calculated long shots (i.e. a Gourdis), but the longest of long shots (i.e. a Hicks). I think in the past this was basically a crap shoot for us, as lack of resources meant we were basically guessing. As FJ has gotten more resources however, I think the quality of this development shots have improved. At the C80 rookie nights, when they explain the rationale for the choices I think they have gotten more and more founded on some expectation of certainty than hope each year. A good case is Williams. The kid is a chance at best, but after hearing about his footy and his approach to it, its a bet you don't mind making. In the past we were picking guys who were too short/slow/unskilled, and you knew it would take everything working out for them to make it.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Of course people feel peeved, t_o_o, opposition coaches are playing us like a fiddle, it was a pathetic performance on too many levels not to feel gutted by it.

I agree,We all feel peeved on the way we went about it at both coaching level and player level.Hopefully Dimma has learnt that playing that style of play in the 1sy qtr does not suit our style, Ess did so well just to sit on our players who actually use the ball and just wait,Like most of us i prefer we take the bull by the horns and just attack and every now and again take a breather.It also doesn't help when 2 of our better ball users[Ellis & Conca] are sitting in the stands.

 

[cairo tiger]

One thing I like about you Cairo is your consistency, always willing to ignore facts to make your point:

Cotchin - In the first 1-2 years of drafting him many were asking why, because he could barely get on the paddock with his achilles issues. Last year he nearly won a brownlow. So yes, a massive decline in his output. He has had a sub par (for him) 2013, but most believe he is carrying an injury.

agree he is carrying something. but our failure to free him up and he is making really silly errors- turning it over a la jackson at times. why is this so? coaching/ confidence. bottom line not good enough

Deledio - Early on was consigned to HBF because it was the only place he could impact upon the opposition. Now is running in the middle most games and is one of our more damaging outside players

yes and no. but again has not taken the next step and maybe never will. we need more from him. when tagged goes to water. easiiest bloke to tag out of the game. just ask Ross lyon. we need more from him. coaching and confidence would have a lot to do with it.

Martin - Great impact player who could never play 4 quarters. This season has been regularly doing it with smarter use of rotations.

yes and no. we need him and the others to step up in the big games. will he? not sure/


But yeah, other than that all three have seen their careers go backwards under Dimma

This is the type of over the top reactionary garbage which is why our club is a stereotype cliche in the media.

this is far from reactionary garbage as you say. these blokes are supposed to be our leaders. leadership is part instinct, part coachable. name me 2 players who have advanced under dimma? I will give you one- ellis. who else? find the other one for me please. before you post reactionary garbage have your facts and reasons.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

this is far from reactionary garbage as you say. these blokes are supposed to be our leaders. leadership is part instinct, part coachable. name me 2 players who have advanced under dimma? I will give you one- ellis. who else? find the other one for me please. before you post reactionary garbage have your facts and reasons.

This is reactionary garbage

You claim Cotchin, Deledio, and Martin have all gone backwards, but in your own response:

- you agree Cotch is likely injured, but that he needs more support - two factors that have nothing to do with his development. And the lack of support may have something to do with Tuck and Conca being out, leaving us very thin for quality experienced inside mids.

- your knock on Deledio is he is not meeting YOUR expectation. This doesn't mean he's gone backwards, just that he hasn't achieved the stellar heights you expect of him

- you say we need Martin to step up in big games, he has been very consistent this season, and unlike some others hasn't gone missing

You are hurting we get that, but it was one game we were expected to lose. They are a top 4 team, we aren't, and we were missing Conca, Tuck, Ellis, Grimes, Knights, and Pettard, and have possible ongoing issues (injury wise) with Maric/Lids/Cotch. Its not like we lost to Melbourne by ten goals.

 

[cairo tiger]

This is reactionary garbage

You claim Cotchin, Deledio, and Martin have all gone backwards, but in your own response:

- you agree Cotch is likely injured, but that he needs more support - two factors that have nothing to do with his development. And the lack of support may have something to do with Tuck and Conca being out, leaving us very thin for quality experienced inside mids.

- your knock on Deledio is he is not meeting YOUR expectation. This doesn't mean he's gone backwards, just that he hasn't achieved the stellar heights you expect of him

- you say we need Martin to step up in big games, he has been very consistent this season, and unlike some others hasn't gone missing

You are hurting we get that, but it was one game we were expected to lose. They are a top 4 team, we aren't, and we were missing Conca, Tuck, Ellis, Grimes, Knights, and Pettard, and have possible ongoing issues (injury wise) with Maric/Lids/Cotch. Its not like we lost to Melbourne by ten goals.

ffs I just ejaculated with laughter, thanks for providing me with some humour in all my pain!

I think that Martin, lids and cotch need to step up yes your are right, but I dont make excuses for them like you. as leaders who have been around now for a few years We expect them to step up, thats the difference with making excuses not reasons as you tried to justify our inept performance.

Unlike you I did not expect to lose- do we go into games with that mentaility? No I dont, but you clealry do with reference to to your direct quote "but it was one game we were expected to lose".


well I wonder if other posters here expected us to lose. Anyone out there EXPECT US TO LOSE?
Clearly this may have been the case because essendon our ran us, out contested us and out thought us and the coach out coached us.

Mate if we have blokes like you who expect to lose we wont be going anywhere. I expect us to win. If we are on and motivated and have a good plan we could have beaten that mob. but go on mate. expect to lose, and that is exactly why we do- it is called mediocrity- not making the tough calls and not having our expectations high. It is this sort of attitude that drags the club down.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

ffs I just ejaculated with laughter, thanks for providing me with some humour in all my pain!

I think that Martin, lids and cotch need to step up yes your are right, but I dont make excuses for them like you. as leaders who have been around now for a few years We expect them to step up, thats the difference with making excuses not reasons as you tried to justify our inept performance.

Unlike you I did not expect to lose- do we go into games with that mentaility? No I dont, but you clealry do with reference to to your direct quote "but it was one game we were expected to lose".


well I wonder if other posters here expected us to lose. Anyone out there EXPECT US TO LOSE?
Clearly this may have been the case because essendon our ran us, out contested us and out thought us and the coach out coached us.

Mate if we have blokes like you who expect to lose we wont be going anywhere. I expect us to win. If we are on and motivated and have a good plan we could have beaten that mob. but go on mate. expect to lose, and that is exactly why we do- it is called mediocrity- not making the tough calls and not having our expectations high. It is this sort of attitude that drags the club down.

Firstly you didn't say they need to step up, you said they had all gone backwards - a very different claim

no one would be saying shit to you if you said they need to improve, but you claimed they went backwards under Dimma.

And congrats on the uber fan stuff, but read the preview page. Most posters knew it was going to be a very tough game, especially given our recent injuries. This is called accepting reality, you hope you will win every game, but you acknowledge some times it takes a lot more than a red hot go for that to happen. We are a team competing for a spot in the bottom of the 8 - by definition this means at least 6-7 teams are better than us.

And its not my attitude that drags the club down. I'm showing patience and a willingness to back the plan we have all invested it. You're the one channeling GR and wanting to sack the coach, half the club and return to 1989

 

[Bazzar]

well I wonder if other posters here expected us to lose. Anyone out there EXPECT US TO LOSE?
Clearly this may have been the case because essendon our ran us, out contested us and out thought us and the coach out coached us.

I did, so i went and put $250 on the Bombers @ $1.83.

 

[Cotcho]

I did, so i went and put $250 on the Bombers @ $1.83.

I had $200. Got potted from Tradespert and a couple of others in the preview thread.

Absolutely shattered that we lost to those cheating pricks but I'm $160 richer. Sorta helps deal with the pain.

 

[Cotcho]

PS We goofd hard with Conca. Obviously none here want to believe it but the forever injured Conca has nothing on Heppel, who is fast becoming a Pendlebury clone.

 

[Bazzar]

I had $200. Got potted from Tradespert and a couple of others in the preview thread.

Absolutely shattered that we lost to those cheating pricks but I'm $160 richer. Sorta helps deal with the pain.

Its an interesting thing to do, and i dont think its being disrespectful to the team one bit. I will collect $457.50 and im going to top it up to $500 and put it on the Eagles @ $1.30

If we win i will be over the moon, as we will be back in the 8 and respect restored
going into the bye with renewed vigor, and the loss of 500 will be no big deal, easy come easy go.

If Eagles win, just like the Bombers game i will be totally shattered, but i will collect $650 and will buy an ipad, and give up betting for the rest of the year (im not a punter, just the odd 20 here and there)

 

[Cotcho]

Its an interesting thing to do, and i dont think its being disrespectful to the team one bit. I will collect $457.50 and im going to top it up to $500 and put it on the Eagles @ $1.30

If we win i will be over the moon, as we will be back in the 8 and respect restored
going into the bye with renewed vigor, and the loss of 500 will be no big deal, easy come easy go.

If Eagles win, just like the Bombers game i will be totally shattered, but i will collect $650 and will buy an ipad, and give up betting for the rest of the year (im not a punter, just the odd 20 here and there)

Yer the only betting I ever do is on Richmond to lose and I don't believe it is any way disrespectful either. If someone said to me at the start of the game you can pay $200 to see the Tigers win....of course I would take that. I will have a fair bit on this weekend too, and as you said, not because I want us to lose or think that we will, it's just to ensure I'm not making a 1 way trip to the West Gate after a crushing loss.

I also have $400 on us to miss the 8 @ $3.25. I will be very glad to see that cash disappear.

 

[Bazzar]

Yer the only betting I ever do is on Richmond to lose and I don't believe it is any way disrespectful either. If someone said to me at the start of the game you can pay $200 to see the Tigers win....of course I would take that. I will have a fair bit on this weekend too, and as you said, not because I want us to lose or think that we will, it's just to ensure I'm not making a 1 way trip to the West Gate after a crushing loss.

I also have $400 on us to miss the 8 @ $3.25. I will be very glad to see that cash disappear.

Funny in the paper today, a Carlton supporter had 100k on the Blues the line at +14.5pts lol.

 

[cairo tiger]

Firstly you didn't say they need to step up, you said they had all gone backwards - a very different claim

no one would be saying shit to you if you said they need to improve, but you claimed they went backwards under Dimma.

And congrats on the uber fan stuff, but read the preview page. Most posters knew it was going to be a very tough game, especially given our recent injuries. This is called accepting reality, you hope you will win every game, but you acknowledge some times it takes a lot more than a red hot go for that to happen. We are a team competing for a spot in the bottom of the 8 - by definition this means at least 6-7 teams are better than us.

And its not my attitude that drags the club down. I'm showing patience and a willingness to back the plan we have all invested it. You're the one channeling GR and wanting to sack the coach, half the club and return to 1989

geez mate, give me patience and then come and see me, I wont reveal my age but I am one of the cutest 50 years olds around according to my missus. sorry I am still laughing at your comment about expecting us to lose anyway...... All I am saying is all levels need to be responsible, I have written in other posts about Dimmas lack of game plan and stuff. Lets get specific to we were talking about the improvement or lack of it under dimma. I want you to tell me which players have improved and why. or can we just leave it at that and both agree that we have a way to go and that the jumper needs some unity. Like you I want the same thing. I just dont see if happening under this regime, the coaches have lifted us from the dungeon and the recruiters have got it largely right ( no use arguing about this and that there although we could) but I dont think the current regime can take us further up the ladder. I have written that the improvement we need to see is a top 8- 8th will do- but I seriously question if the current regime of coaches have improved our players.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

geez mate, give me patience and then come and see me, I wont reveal my age but I am one of the cutest 50 years olds around according to my missus. sorry I am still laughing at your comment about expecting us to lose anyway...... All I am saying is all levels need to be responsible, I have written in other posts about Dimmas lack of game plan and stuff. Lets get specific to we were talking about the improvement or lack of it under dimma. I want you to tell me which players have improved and why. or can we just leave it at that and both agree that we have a way to go and that the jumper needs some unity. Like you I want the same thing. I just dont see if happening under this regime, the coaches have lifted us from the dungeon and the recruiters have got it largely right ( no use arguing about this and that there although we could) but I dont think the current regime can take us further up the ladder. I have written that the improvement we need to see is a top 8- 8th will do- but I seriously question if the current regime of coaches have improved our players.

I can go you one better, you remember the flags, I don't because I was only old enough to really start following footy around 1980-82, so nearly all my footy memories are doom and gloom. You think you are patient, try asking for patience when all you have known is misery.

In terms of specifics, I'll list the following:

- wins and percentage have improved every year under Dimma

- in terms of improvement, I think Grimes (when not injured he is now our best defender IMO), Deledio (HBF to midfielder), Martin (can play 4 quarters now), Ellis (already gone from HBF to mid), Grigg (finding space and starting attacks better than when at the Blues), Dea (beginning to look like he belongs), Reiwoldt (more a team player now), Cotchin (no longer injury plagued), Edwards (was a pinch hitter now a key part of our running game), Pettard (erratic HFF to a consistent HBF), Houli (bit player at EFC is our key player at setting up attack from HBF/wing), McGuane (career dead as KPD resurrected as KPF), Rance (gone from potential to reliable KPD), Maric (third peg ruck to clear number one ruck), Tuck (played for himself now essential to our team structures), Jackson (shit disposal and brain fades falling), King (gone from short term fix up forward to an essential part of our forward line), Conca (was a player much maligned, now a key mid for us), Morris (novelty act in 2012, was supposed to be killed with the slide rule, he's still rocking after slightly changing his game), Elton (slowly developing as a good KPF), O'Hanlon (slowly developing as a high forward), and Arnot (potentially a good inside mid if he improves discipline) have all improved in their time under Dimma (be it 1 pre-season or all four).

- Of course we should a a team contending for the 8, we were a team contending for the top of the bottom half of the ladder just last year. This development has been a slow and steady one, only an exact 2 wins a season, with some percentage improvement. This means we won't make top 4 this year, but it will be sustainable. Our past finals entries were like a firecracker, red hot one minute, but fade to black the next. We didn't properly build a list with depth, and any trade/injury issues killed us the next year.

We have lost Conca (inside mid), Tuck (inside mid), a massive loss for a young midfield. This year we have replaced them with Vlastuin and Lonergan - in the past this would have been an injured Hislop or a kid who wasn't ready like Helbig. This shows we still need to improve our depth, but its getting better.

As long as we keep tracking forward, I'm happy. No more one year in finals and then oblivion. I want consistency and regular appearances, and this means being patient enough to develop and grow a decent list. We are not there yet, but we are a long way from where Wally left us.

 

[tigs2010]

Funny in the paper today, a Carlton supporter had 100k on the Blues the line at +14.5pts lol.

Don;t know the guy but as a Carlton fan i presume it couldn't happen to a shitter bloke.

 

[Ralll]

Its not a false dawn.
We're not trading our early picks away for these older players, the base (all our early draft picks) will still be there even if Dimma is proven to be not the man.
The facilities/recruiting staff/money for a compliment of coaches is not going anywhere soon.

 

[Jozzy]

I had $200. Got potted from Tradespert and a couple of others in the preview thread.

Absolutely shattered that we lost to those cheating pricks but I'm $160 richer. Sorta helps deal with the pain.

I still defend what I said, you should never bet against your own team.