Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Dogs_R_Us]

Isn't that what he's doing with Hird? Hird has even less experience as a coach than Macca.

 

[timtamWB]

If Bomber Thompson leaves Essendon after this season, as seems likely, do you think he'd come to us as an assistant, or director of coaching?

I'm backing Macca, btw.

If he does leave Essendon, he's a high chance to go to the Dogs. I don't know if you saw Macca and Bomber on AFL 360 last week, but you could see they had a great relationship, Macca asks Bomber for some tips etc.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

If he does leave Essendon, he's a high chance to go to the Dogs. I don't know if you saw Macca and Bomber on AFL 360 last week, but you could see they had a great relationship, Macca asks Bomber for some tips etc.

That's partly why I suggested it

 

[Dav1d]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-26/dogs-say-no-to-melbourne-priority-pick

good to hear him speak out, even though he didn't really add much onto what Voss had said

 

[_Mike_]

I'd be suprised to see Thompson leave Essendon (being a favourite son) but if he did, snaring him as a senior coach/mentor to McCartney would be a major coup

 

[Chris Grant]

Thompson was getting a big amount of money at Essendon, I doubt we could offer him as much.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Hird sacked and Bomber taking over actually.

 

[Butane]

Yeah, the only reason Bomber is still in the game is because of the truck load of money and being back at the 'Bombers'. No way we could pull on his heart strings or pay him as much money either. Pipe dream.

 

[JJHunter]

Yeah, the only reason Bomber is still in the game is because of the truck load of money and being back at the 'Bombers'. No way we could pull on his heart strings or pay him as much money either. Pipe dream.

Its not even a money factor. Thompson has shares or part owns an entire estate that was sold last years for squillions. You wont hear anything in the media but the guy is worth millions and millions. He went back to Essendon not for money but for the love of his old club to get it going with Hird.

 

[Butane]

Its not even a money factor. Thompson has shares or part owns an entire estate that was sold last years for squillions. You wont hear anything in the media but the guy is worth millions and millions. He went back to Essendon not for money but for the love of his old club to get it going with Hird.

I know the estate in Geelong/Surf coast, fairly common knowledge he made millions just solely off that. I'd be surprised though if he's not the highest paid...umm...whatever his role is in the league.

 

[Wocka]

I know the estate in Geelong/Surf coast, fairly common knowledge he made millions just solely off that. I'd be surprised though if he's not the highest paid...umm...whatever his role is in the league.

syringe supplier ?

 

[doggies ftw]

something i dont get which has been alluded to in another thread is why on earth is he playing cooney down back? I just dont get it ? If anything, he should be playing up forward.... He adds nothing down back, so i am questioning this coaching strategy , especially when Murphy, JJ and Easton wood are more suited to this role...

This is a few pages back but I only just got up to here.

Do you mean the Murphy who has been playing this role regularly that we still need in other positions too? The JJ who IS playing this role? or the Easton Wood that has been injured all year?

Cooney has been bad back but I can see the point in trying him there, our disposal coming out of defense is horrible, Cooney is fast and is meant to have one of the better kicks on our teams, thats why he is playing back there. Not that hard to see. If you don't like him playing there thats fine but dont try to say those 3 players should be playing there instead for obvious reasons.

 

[dogsfan]

When we talk about the list that BMac inherited, I couldn't help notice how different our forward line looks now compared to 2010 when Eade was coach.

It's only 3 years ago but we had the experienced Hall Hahn Gia Johnson Acker Murphy Eagleton Minson etc.. most had over 200 games and even consider Lake Hargraves and Gilbee running in kicking goals from 50 to now having the most inexperienced forward line.

And lets just say Murphy has to play down back and Gia is the sub at some stage tomorrow night our forward line will look something like this with games in brackets.

Dahl (40) Jones (49) Dickson (20)
Hunter (1) Cordy (17) Stringer (8)

and running in through the middle Libba (45) Wallis (33) Smith (27) Johannisen (14) Macrae (8) Hrovat (3).

I'm very optimistic and excited about our future but in reality BMac has got a bit of work to do to get what Eade had.

 

[Butane]

And lets just say Murphy has to play down back and Gia is the sub at some stage tomorrow night our forward line will look something like this with games in brackets.

Dahl (40) Jones (49) Dickson (20)
Hunter (1) Cordy (17) Stringer (8)

and running in through the middle Libba (45) Wallis (33) Smith (27) Johannisen (14) Macrae (8) Hrovat (3).

And Macca has had 2 trade periods to avoid such an experienced forward line.

Quinten Lynch, Dawes, Monfries, Gunston, Mitch Clark, Mitch Morton, Goddard can all play forward and were all traded to other clubs in the time Macca has been coach.

Ok fair enough, we didn't get any of them for understandable reasons but who's to say we couldn't have got some else besides the players listed above? Hypothetical questions of course.

But all our current forward line proves is I could have been in charge of avoiding such an inexperienced forward line and done nothing but drink rum and coke and done just as good a job at putting together what you've listed above.

(admittedly I that forward line could be boss in 3 or so years but can we wait that long? We need to draft a senior player next year to speed up this process)

 

[dogsfan]

I think it proves that BMac is really doing what he preaches, building from within and developing all these guys together being the foundation of something great.

Patience.

 

[maddog37]

And Macca has had 2 trade periods to avoid such an experienced forward line.

Quinten Lynch, Dawes, Monfries, Gunston, Mitch Clark, Mitch Morton, Goddard can all play forward and were all traded to other clubs in the time Macca has been coach.

Ok fair enough, we didn't get any of them for understandable reasons but who's to say we couldn't have got some else besides the players listed above? Hypothetical questions of course.

But all our current forward line proves is I could have been in charge of avoiding such an inexperienced forward line and done nothing but drink rum and coke and done just as good a job at putting together what you've listed above.

(admittedly I that forward line could be boss in 3 or so years but can we wait that long? We need to draft a senior player next year to speed up this process)

None of those players wanted to come for reasonable money. No other players were known to be available and you also suggest the kids we have may well provide a decent forward line in the future. Not sure what your point is Butane.......

 

[Butane]

None of those players wanted to come for reasonable money. No other players were known to be available and you also suggest the kids we have may well provide a decent forward line in the future. Not sure what your point is Butane.......

My point is there are other things that another coach may have done and hence why we can choose to discuss what our club has done recently to drop off so severely in relevance. Doesn't make Macca's choices wrong but it'll be open for debate until we are either in the top 4 again or he's sacked.

All too often it's implied that Macca was handed a dud list and so therefore can't be blamed for what looms our 2nd bottom 4 finish in a row. True, he was handed a tough job. I see that but I'm not overly convinced he/the team has got every decision right and he certainly isn't immune to criticism.

I'm really looking forward to some very aggressive trading this year. And that may well have been the plan all along.

 

[TedDougChris]

My point is there are other things that another coach may have done and hence why we can choose to discuss what our club has done recently to drop off so severely in relevance. Doesn't make Macca's choices wrong but it'll be open for debate until we are either in the top 4 again or he's sacked.

All too often it's implied that Macca was handed a dud list and so therefore can't be blamed for what looms our 2nd bottom 4 finish in a row. True, he was handed a tough job. I see that but I'm not overly convinced he/the team has got every decision right and he certainly isn't immune to criticism.

I'm really looking forward to some very aggressive trading this year. And that may well have been the plan all along.

I agree with you and disagree with aspects Butane. As always I hear you cry.....

You are correct that we could have chosen to do things differently. I don't dispute this, but I'm not convinced that the options available are those that we actually wanted or would have wanted (although sometimes in hindsight). Clarke or Lynch would have been the pick of the bunch you mentioned, but as others have suggested, they may not have wanted to come here. Unfortunately Clark is made of balsa wood (we have enough of those here) and Lynch wanted to go to a contender.

And I'm not sure what we would have had to give up would have been worth the short term improvement.... But that's a purely subjective argument.

 

[dogsfan]

I agree with you and disagree with aspects Butane. As always I hear you cry.....

You are correct that we could have chosen to do things differently. I don't dispute this, but I'm not convinced that the options available are those that we actually wanted or would have wanted (although sometimes in hindsight). Clarke or Lynch would have been the pick of the bunch you mentioned, but as others have suggested, they may not have wanted to come here. Unfortunately Clark is made of balsa wood (we have enough of those here) and Lynch wanted to go to a contender.

And I'm not sure what we would have had to give up would have been worth the short term improvement.... But that's a purely subjective argument.

That's just it. In about 2 years when our pups have reached that 80-100 game mark together as a group, then we too will have players wanting to come to us as a contender and hopefully then Bmac (if he's still here) should trade in players that will compliment our list at that time.

Premiership sides have cleverly traded in top up players for years..... Ottens to Geelong, Jolly to the pies and even Stewie Dew to Hawthorn helped them get over the line. Don't get me started with Sydneys trades they were all gold.
Unfortunately the problem with our last tilt was that Acker didn't quite work out.

 

[TedDougChris]

That's just it. In about 2 years when our pups have reached that 80-100 game mark together as a group, then we too will have players wanting to come to us as a contender and hopefully then Bmac (if he's still here) should trade in players that will compliment our list at that time.

Premiership sides have cleverly traded in top up players for years..... Ottens to Geelong, Jolly to the pies and even Stewie Dew to Hawthorn helped them get over the line. Don't get me started with Sydneys trades they were all gold.
Unfortunately the problem with our last tilt was that Acker didn't quite work out.

I agree with you. I also (certainly in our last draft period) wouldn't want to have given up a pick at this stage. But Butane is correct, even though Macca inherited a poor list, that didn't mean that 1) he had to live with it or 2) he didn't have options to do something about it...

Whether Macca has gone down the correct path can only be assessed as time passes...

 

[TedDougChris]

I couldn't see a thread elsewhere, possibly not part of the Macca's future topic, but relates more to the style of play we have adopted and might continue to develop.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-28/the-clearances-conundrum

It seems while we are good at winning clearances, we are not good at converting into scores. Is this related to execution from the clearance, or lack of movement upfield or problems with our F50 setup ??

Sensible answers only.

 

[dogsfan]

Execution from the clearance is a big issue for us over the last 20 games..... just too many balls get banged onto the boot without looking more often than not to a contest.

The stat should be effective clearances and I don't think we'd be at the top of that list.

 

[Some Idiot]

I couldn't see a thread elsewhere, possibly not part of the Macca's future topic, but relates more to the style of play we have adopted and might continue to develop.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-28/the-clearances-conundrum

It seems while we are good at winning clearances, we are not good at converting into scores. Is this related to execution from the clearance, or lack of movement upfield or problems with our F50 setup ??

Sensible answers only.

A bit of everything I'd say. The table relating to retaining possession from a clearance has us at 82.7% on of the lowest there that does suggest that there is some problem with executing clearances. While our lack of movement upfield and forward structure problems are plain to see.

 

[Some Idiot]

Execution from the clearance is a big issue for us over the last 20 games..... just too many balls get banged onto the boot without looking more often than not to a contest.

The stat should be effective clearances and I don't think we'd be at the top of that list.

There is an effective clearance chart in that article. It's in percentages though, so you would have to do some math to work out if we're still high in totals.

 

[Interloper]

I couldn't see a thread elsewhere, possibly not part of the Macca's future topic, but relates more to the style of play we have adopted and might continue to develop.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-28/the-clearances-conundrum

It seems while we are good at winning clearances, we are not good at converting into scores. Is this related to execution from the clearance, or lack of movement upfield or problems with our F50 setup ??

Sensible answers only.

D) All of the above.
My own observations (without stats to prove/disprove) is that our turnovers from clearances occur with the clearance winner or with or as a result of the 1st receiver under pressure. Composed first receiver options are what we need most to stop this. Example: Libba wins the clearance and handballs to X. It's quality from X that we need. If Libba doesn't have confidence in X or X(s) don't provide a good first reception option then Libba will kick hurriedly and long under pressure and get picked off for a turnover. If Libba offloads to X but X is not a natural footballer, smart, a good decision maker, composed with good skills under pressure then he'll either die with the ball, turn it over directly or handball/kick to someone under equal or worse pressure and then turn it over. It's X. Other than Griff and Libba himself the primary X factor candidates for us are Stringer, Hrovat, Prudden, Hunter, McCrae. Not convinced by Wallis but he's in the mix. I don't see Boyd, Lower, Pickers or Smith as X options but Smith has the most upside of those.
We're winning more than our share of clearances but until X is fixed we can't take advantage consistently. And while the forward line is inexperienced of quality unproven, they are severely handicapped by lack of quality X.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

I couldn't see a thread elsewhere, possibly not part of the Macca's future topic, but relates more to the style of play we have adopted and might continue to develop.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-28/the-clearances-conundrum

It seems while we are good at winning clearances, we are not good at converting into scores. Is this related to execution from the clearance, or lack of movement upfield or problems with our F50 setup ??

Sensible answers only.

Honestly it is all the above. I know that sounds like a cop out but a little of each makes the whole thing crap. Forwards lead, the kicks into F50 are rubbish, or simply long hit-n-hope bombs. Forwards stop leading, Mids have no options. Gia seems to organise things better when he comes on, so clearly young Forwards are getting in each others way, not following the play book consistently, or just simply not experienced enough to know their position. At the end of all that you would say perhaps 20-30% of the time everything goes to plan... i don't have the stats, but i wouldn't be surprised if our forward effectiveness from all forward thrusts was about that range.