Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Mattdougie]

Roos who says he does not want to coach, ayers who was run out of Geelong and Adelaide.

Williams, maybe but left port in interesting circumstances and is not pushed by his former players.

None of the Macca haters have said what these guys would o different or better to be an improvement

Anything!!

Everything!!

Williams got rub out of Adelaide because he clashed With the board and sponsor BUT HE WON A FLAG WITH NO MONEY

Ayres was a Victorian in Adelaide so was never going to be accepted.

And I said Rios was a pipe dream but why not have a bloody crack. Let's make a huge play for once instead of picking the nice bloke that talks well but can't coach to save himself like Hart, Wheeler, Rohde and the current peanut we have

 

[cleveland]

True, but he himself recognised he had to change and he did

Chocco seems to be doing well at tigerland, they love him down there

 

[lachy]

I'm not keen on Williams, and highly doubt we could entice Roos or Bomber Thompson.

That leaves Ayres, Knights, Ratten, Eade(!), M. Harvey, maybe Worsfold, if considering an experienced coach.

Or do we try another assistant, but this time back them up with experience, or try something like Ayres with Ling to learn the ropes and a possible succession plan? I don't know, and I don't even know if getting rid of the current coach now is the right move, but if we lose next week, I think he would be on thin ice at the end of the season.

I think your summation covers our conundrum. Easy to say get rid of the coach, of the group above my preference is Eade!

 

[ivan rassmussen]

None of the Macca haters have said what these guys would o different or better to be an improvement

As I see it, the biggest issues are team balance at selection, and more significantly, tactical performance on match day.

Which currently available experienced coach has those attributes, and if possibly given an interim period, with a succession agreement, could be used to mentor a younger coach with those attributes? Or if the experienced coach is effective, could be a long-term solution? I honestly don't know, but match day performance is critical (not saying other KPIs aren't), and at the moment our match day coaching appears amateurish.

 

[lachy]

Chocco seems to be doing well at tigerland, they love him down there

I like Williams, just need a bit of convincing he understands his weaknesses

 

[Mattdougie]

Regardless of whether Higgins was selected weeks ago or not has no bearing on tonigh's capitulation.

If you believe Gia has never put his head over the ball, you are deluded. He plays the role now he needs to play, and yes he can appear lazy - but he has played midfield well, winning contested possessions consistently, and has collected larger bodies along the way.

Gia is soft end of discussion.

Doesn't mean he hasn't been effective at times but if you think he is tough then you sir are the deluded one. I have watched him play since day one and he has never changed. He has always tried to run with his man to a contest and force him past the ball instead of leading him to the ball. He has been very good at that bit it shows his lack of wanting body contact in the contest.

Go back to the Adelaide game at etihad in 2011 and watch how many times he took short steps! Yes I remember the game coz I nearly climbed the fence to tell him how piss weak he has being

 

[lachy]

As I see it, the biggest issues are team balance at selection, and more significantly, tactical performance on match day.

Which currently available experienced coach has those attributes, and if possibly given an interim period, with a succession agreement, could be used to mentor a younger coach with those attributes? Or if the experienced coach is effective, could be a long-term solution? I honestly don't know, but match day performance is critical (not saying other KPIs aren't), and at the moment our match day coaching appears amateurish.

Agree with your comments, which is why I would like to hear from those who want Macca sacked who replaces him and why based on some criteria, not the unthinking anyone as I don't like him

 

[lachy]

Anything!!

Everything!!

Williams got rub out of Adelaide because he clashed With the board and sponsor BUT HE WON A FLAG WITH NO MONEY

Ayres was a Victorian in Adelaide so was never going to be accepted.

And I said Rios was a pipe dream but why not have a bloody crack. Let's make a huge play for once instead of picking the nice bloke that talks well but can't coach to save himself like Hart, Wheeler, Rohde and the current peanut we have

Have a crack at Roos who does not want to coach, you mean like the Saints and Malcolm Blight?

 

[Leon]

Craig absolutely thrashed McCartney today.

I'm just about permanently in the Sack Him camp now. I might actually give him a bit of credit if he actually shows some anger at the presser rather than his usual fluff, but **** me he was woeful tonight McCartney.


**** the 2 point margin, this is easily the worst loss under his tenure. It's an absolute disgrace.

I feel sick. The entire competition is laughing at us. We are an embarrassment.

 

[Mattdougie]

Regardless of whether Higgins was selected weeks ago or not has no bearing on tonigh's capitulation.

If you believe Gia has never put his head over the ball, you are deluded. He plays the role now he needs to play, and yes he can appear lazy - but he has played midfield well, winning contested possessions consistently, and has collected larger bodies along the way.

I'm not referring to just tonite mate, I'm referring to his failures SINCE DAY ONE! And Higgins is prove number one. All the talent in the world but a heart the size of a pea and lazy. Could you imagine how good he would be under a coach like Malthouse? My god he would be a star he has all the tools but in my opinion is scared.

When a coach says HE WILL NOT PLAY blokes like that and he does then his word is rubbish from the first second

 

[ThirdLegUp]

wait, so does roos want to coach or doesn't he. Not wanting to coach and not wanting to coach until next year are NOT the same thing.

I would thrown everything at him to agree to come to us when he is ready, give macca the option of coaching the vfl team so he can 'teach'. if not, good bye.

 

[Mattdougie]

Have a crack at Roos who does not want to coach, you mean like the Saints and Malcolm Blight?

For the record Roos has NEVER said he doesn't want to coach again he has said he does not have the passion for it and from the day he left sydney he said he will not consider coaching until his kids finish a school. That happens end of 2014

And if you think for a instant that if a team got Roos to take the job he wouldn't give everything he has to it and not piss around like Blight did then your gravelly mistaken. Two completely different men and Roos integrity would not allow him to do that

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Agree with your comments, which is why I would like to hear from those who want Macca sacked who replaces him and why based on some criteria, not the unthinking anyone as I don't like him

Thanks. I'm not really gung-ho to sack him, but feel that tonight's result will make it harder not to sack him. I expect heavy media scrutiny this week, and while that's no basis to sack a coach, we all know if that pressure builds where it will lead. A loss against GWS would make the football world forget Voss's problems, and whether Worsfold will stay, and turn the focus squarely on Macartney.

In fact, I hope the media scrutiny this week is very heavy, to see how the coach and the club react, because they really deserve it. There are those like Lloyd and others who have backed Macartney's plan, but I wonder where they sit now. A 3 point win after leading all night may have been bearable, but a 3 point loss after being woeful for 3 quarters then suddenly playing for 15 mins against that opposition - that is disastrous, for everyone.

 

[Anja_Nees]

First, let me say that McCartney ain't looking like the guy that's going to take us back to finals. Tonight was a humiliation but I had a feeling this was coming. We all love Stringer, Hrovat and Hunter and playing one or two of them in an experienced side is a good thing. Playing all four draftees from last year, even against Melbourne or GWS, is setting us up for failure. We'd already lost Goodes, Williams, Higgins et al. We were already playing Cordy and Dickson off the back of a long injury layoff. Dahlhaus has barely had a kick in a month. It was the wrong week to make an example of Picken. Playing Picken and Addison (for example) wouldn't have necessarily won us the game, but playing so many physically underdone or out of form players put us in a bad position and was tempting fate. The guy talks a good game, but it ain't working. No one expected us to play finals but we play shit footy.

Second, we can't sack him this week. We will be no better off for it. We will probably win next week, and I get some will see that as being an artificial positive, but we need to make a considered decision. Let him learn from this week and play out the remaining games. He's looking like the new Rhode but we need to make a rational call. This is the most disappointing loss we have had since 2007 but no one wins from snap decisions.

Third, I've generally advocated a calm and reasoned approach to the side. We're awful and no coach could make this side good. The reality is though that we are beyond just being bad. While I think Ernie and the other anti-McCartney types have been harsh, those that have denigrated them probably owe an apology. While no coach could make us a strong side, you can rest assured a different coaching panel could make us better. I really hope the powers that be turn it around but from my point of view, this coaching panel has until the end of the season to show that they are taking us somewhere.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Second, we can't sack him this week. We will be no better off for it. We will probably win next week, and I get some will see that as being an artificial positive, but we need to make a considered decision. Let him learn from this week and play out the remaining games. He's looking like the new Rhode but we need to make a rational call. This is the most disappointing loss we have had since 2007 but no one wins from snap decisions.

Third, I've generally advocated a calm and reasoned approach to the side. We're awful and no coach could make this side good. The reality is though that we are beyond just being bad. While I think Ernie and the other anti-McCartney types have been harsh, those that have denigrated them probably owe an apology. While no coach could make us a strong side, you can rest assured a different coaching panel could make us better. I really hope the powers that be turn it around but from my point of view, this coaching panel has until the end of the season to show that they are taking us somewhere.

As to the second bolded part, I agree. The end of the season is the best time to make a decision. The interesting part will be our performance until then, and how that plays out in a wider football sense - i.e. fan reaction, media reaction, club reaction to fan and media reaction. I know that isn't the way it should work, and the club should make a rational decision - but not all coach sackings are done rationally.

As to the first bolded part, I would only retract any comments to the poster you mentioned when he mentions a viable alternative other than just "sack the coach" or "anyone would be better". As I can't see him ever doing that, I will continue to either ignore or denigrate his comments, in much the same way as the majority of this board does.

 

[Mattdougie]

My growing fear is that at the end of this year Cooney will leave as Lake did. Why on earth would you stay when even McCartney said this is a 6 year rebuild(I knew from that second he was no good). The rumours are already circulating that he may move to Hawks with his best mate Lake.

The greter fear is that at the end of next year Griffen will leave to chase and flag and too be honest who would blame him? Playing under this coach must be heart breaking for the older guys and I would have no issue with any of them jumping ship while we have this useless coach.

I understand that sacking him now is not optimal BUT we can spend the next 4 months replanning next year and not wait til September

 

[cammo78]

Keep punching, boys.

 

[cleveland]

Keep punching, boys.

Are you pro or anti?

 

[fred cook]

Faith in what exactly?
We seem to have a coach who has a solid "theory" about building a list, but the implementation on match day is abominable. I don't completely disagree with the type of list he is building, but he has no tactical nous in a game. Any sense of improvement at all this year has just been wiped away. That may be unfair, but tonight is an absolutely putrid result - there is no way to sugarcoat it...None.

His game plan is paddock suburban footy

End of story

CHEAP AS CHIPS 2 has been born

 

[fred cook]

get a coach surround him with all of his ex team mates to help then get a few ex players who never really achieved anything to help and away you go

 

[cammo78]

Are you pro or anti?

I am pro. And that is even after seeing the most insipid first three quarters I've seen in a long time tonight.

The coach is not the problem.

 

[Mattdougie]

Keep punching, boys.

And why is that mate??

Do we have to blindly love and support everything our club does? Sit in our hands like Melbourne fans have for a decades and accept completely uncompetitive footy?

I have been a member for 35 consecutive years and I used to go and watch the boys play at the Western Oval when we were rubbish. But at least they had a bloody crack and when the team walked off you knew they have all they had it simply wasnt good enough.

McCartney is NO GOOD. I still love my club and spend my cash everywhere which gives me the rite to complain.

Are you a member?

 

[Leon]

If we lose against GWS he is in massive trouble.

 

[cleveland]

I am pro. And that is even after seeing the most insipid first three quarters I've seen in a long time tonight.

The coach is not the problem.

Whats the problem then?

 

[Rookie]

I'm not normally one to cry out for coach-sacking, but the seriously inept way we move the football is extremely worrying. We have no plan or structure once we get the ball. This is mostly a coaching problem (although a tall mobile target ala Gumbleton would help a little).

Macca has to show that he can actually pull some moves when the match isn't going our way.