ASADA relied on 'vague' accounts - The Australian 27/12/13

[yaco55]

Can you explain to me how this is even remotely a penalty to him? ITS ONLY A PENALTY IF HE ACTUALLY SUFFERS FROM IT. An all expenses paid holiday and million dollars spending money does not qualify as a penalty in any shape or form in anyone's ******* language.

How do you explain the fact that Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly all had to forfeit their pay but James does not?

Think you will find that Connelly was allowed to be paid but not directly by the club. And we have no proof that Trigg and Harper weren't paid. You only have to look at Stkilda Coterie members offering Milne a fundraiser to help pay his legal fees for his upcoming court case. AFL community always look after their own.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

see: Werner Rieterer
RussellEbertHandball b0ydman

Ah yes the man who in early 1999 threw the discus about 69.5metres at some obscure club meet in Melbourne , if he had thrown over 69.30 metres at the Sydney Olympics would have been a gold medalist, but had enough of the deception, quit in mid 1999, wrote a book and had it published late 1999 ( maybe early 2000) admitting he took drugs - was ignored by every athletics and Olympic official in the lead up to Sydney and since. Told the truth but everyone looked away, including me because I had tickets to every night of the athletics and most morning sessions. I want to see the athletes compete not worry about drugs.

 

[yaco55]

They all could not be paid as a part of their penalty handed down by the afl. But oh no, not Saint James.

If Hird had taken full responsibility for what happened under his watch as he proclaimed to do at the original press conference, if he'd stood down whilst awaiting the outcome - he would still be considered by most - not just bomber supporters - to be a man of integrity. There would be real compassion for him, I believe. But he has chosen to fight this by hiring spin doctors, by telling half truths and probably lies. And playing semantics. By demanding to be paid. FFS. As I said earlier, either he was complicit with what went down, or he was so incompetent to allow it to happen. Either way he should never have been given a contract extension and he should have been told to accept whatever punishment was handed to him with humility. Instead he has behaved like a spoilt brat believing that he, James Hird, is bigger than the game, and made most opposition supporters detest both him and the club. It could have been so different.

Why have you forgotten about poor Danny Corcooran. He is being paid.

 

[yaco55]

Before this all happened I was a HUGE fan. Admired Hird tremendously. Thought his courage on field was something to be lauded. Never had an issue with Essendon either. Now? Well you know what I feel now.

The strangest thing is that these events could happen to another club, and I wouldn't hate the club or individuals concerned.

 

[yaco55]

Thus the word IF. So I pose the question again IF IN are issues then what happens with Hird, his contract and his extension? Will you still be perfectly happy for Hird to be paid what somewhere between $2.25-$3 million for not coaching a game after he was involved in a "supplement" program (either directly encouraging it or not monitoring it correctly) which has lead to players being suspended and, as you put it, the "harshest penalties in the history of the AFL" being held against the EFC?

Think you will find that no contract has been signed by Hird and the club. At this stage its an Heads of Agreement type situation.

 

[yaco55]

Do you REALLY want to get into a shit fight about the penalties Jade ??? I mean your "draft sanctions" were LESS than what Adelaide received for Tippette (you got a bloody PP ........), fines mean **** all and, as has been seen lately, the penalties against the coaches/admin were largely a joke (paid holiday and contract extension for Hird and a promotion for Thomas, who would be getting a nice bump to his salary as compensation too (and I doubt he wouldn't have received a $30k "x-mas bonus" to cover the original fine too, it would be in tune with what has happened with Hird)). Being denied a position in the finals would have hurt, but the team was running on empty anyway and you didn't get stripped of all your PP's and "awarded" the wooden spoon, which would have been a more appropriate penalty.


But it's OK, these were just the penalties for "governance", with more to come if/when the "doping" charges are laid

Are you running out of lines. Imagine if the Tippett situation had come out 2 or 3 months earlier - Do you think Adelaide will have missed finals. No matter what way you spin it - Essendon was kicked out of the finals - You can rewrite history if you like.


















(amidoingitright?????)

 

[yaco55]

While the HS may be in the Hird corner, Robbo isn't the conduit for info from the AFL. Robbo and the AFL don't talk anymore.

100% correct.

Robbo is lucky to have a job - So much for fearless investigating.

 

[yaco55]

Isnt the rule regarding approval in 'any' country? So if 1 country approve it ten it might be ok?

But should a substance be OK if it has approval from say Nicaragua ( no offence to Nicaragua ) which may have a looser regulatory system.

And some countries approve substances, and other countries ban the same substance. This doesn't necessarily lead to an even playing field. And there be an element of confusion.

This is why I doubt the long term application of SO.

 

[yaco55]

We can use TA1 as an example here. It is a substance which has past regulations for its use in a number of countries (e.g. Mexico and some European countries) to it isn't caught under the S0 clause. There are however a number of regulations put in place in Australia regarding its administration (It isn't covered under the MIMS system, and cannot be prescribed without specific SAS paperwork) so while there are no WADA regulations regarding its use there are regulations within the medical system to prevent this from occurring (which is why I have always said that the EFC would still be in trouble if TA1 was used not TB4)

But this is my whole argument - WADA wants a level playing field - So that means a substance is either prohibited or not in all countries. It should be BLACK and WHITE.

 

[yaco55]

Just having a quick look (so if you've had a more detailed look by all means correct me), but no, as strange as it sounds it actually looks correct.

S0 defines substances ONLY. It makes no mention of the method of administration.

So technically (and bizarrely) an aftershave or any other such product with chemicals that had not been approved for therapeutic use is technically a breach of the code.

FMD, no wonder S0 is such a shaky proposition to penalise on.....

Jade

I have been hammering this point for three days, especially after reading the email exchange from Mazzoni to Dank.

One day SO code will have to be changed.

 

[yaco55]

Hird has basically extorted that money

Yes - With the help of the AFL.

 

[jenny61_99]

The strangest thing is that these events could happen to another club, and I wouldn't hate the club or individuals concerned.

Probably the best way to be.

I've really struggled with how Essendon and Hird (and the Fat Controller!) have handled this. The spin doctors, the half truths and probably lies, the semantics. The leaking. And the not taking full responsibility. To top it off, the non-penalty that Hird is serving. I don't hate Hird, I have just lost all respect for him as a person. I also don't hate Essendon (I really couldn't care less about it as a Club), but I have to admit I'm not fond of Little. He's a belligerent old bastard and IMO, made the whole thing far worse than it needed to be.

 

[jenny61_99]

But should a substance be OK if it has approval from say Nicaragua ( no offence to Nicaragua ) which may have a looser regulatory system.

And some countries approve substances, and other countries ban the same substance. This doesn't necessarily lead to an even playing field. And there be an element of confusion.

This is why I doubt the long term application of SO.

S0 will survive, it may just need some tweaking.

 

[yaco55]

Probably the best way to be.

I've really struggled with how Essendon and Hird (and the Fat Controller!) have handled this. The spin doctors, the half truths and probably lies, the semantics. The leaking. And the not taking full responsibility. To top it off, the non-penalty that Hird is serving. I don't hate Hird, I have just lost all respect for him as a person. I also don't hate Essendon (I really couldn't care less about it as a Club), but I have to admit I'm not fond of Little. He's a belligerent old bastard and IMO, made the whole thing far worse than it needed to be.

Fine.

But no point whinging about Hird being paid - This is the AFL's doing - And don't forget that Corocran is being paid.

 

[jenny61_99]

Fine.

But no point whinging about Hird being paid - This is the AFL's doing - And don't forget that Corocran is being paid.

Oh the AFL were just completely incompetent (or complicit) in the whole Hird pay thing... but it's just ridiculous to think that anyone in their right mind would think that it was OK to pay him whilst on suspension.

 

[yaco55]

Oh the AFL were just completely incompetent (or complicit) in the whole Hird pay thing... but it's just ridiculous to think that anyone in their right mind would think that it was OK to pay him whilst on suspension.

You are strange.

Not concerned about Corcoran being paid !

 

[jenny61_99]

You are strange.

Not concerned about Corcoran being paid !

Yes of course but he's only off for a minute. Hardly worth discussing really.

 

[Boxhead_31]

100% correct.

Robbo is lucky to have a job - So much for fearless investigating.

Would have more to do with Robbo not being able to string two sentences together and that is before his half dozen lunchtime pots

 

[Cronos]

But this is my whole argument - WADA wants a level playing field - So that means a substance is either prohibited or not in all countries. It should be BLACK and WHITE.

And as far as WADA is concerned, that's exactly what happens.

In case you might not have noticed, local law enforcement, however, are not controlled by WADA.

 

[Jade]

And as far as WADA is concerned, that's exactly what happens.

In case you might not have noticed, local law enforcement, however, are not controlled by WADA.

In case you might not have noticed, WADA is always a lesser power to the courts.

 

[Cronos]

In case you might not have noticed, WADA is always a lesser power to the courts.

And usually the courts will defer to the agreements made between two parties, especially if the pre-established procedures have been followed unless one party can show why those agreements were not legal.

Honestly, it annoys the hell out of me when people threaten court action when they've been caught out doing the wrong thing.

 

[Jade]

And usually the courts will defer to the agreements made between two parties, especially if the pre-established procedures have been followed unless one party can show why those agreements were not legal.

Honestly, it annoys the hell out of me when people threaten court action when they've been caught out doing the wrong thing.

Really? Do you have a doping infraction to point me to that may cause some pain?

 

[Cronos]

Really? Do you have a doping infraction to point me to that may cause some pain?

The number of I told you so's that will be posted will crash this site when they do fall.

Enjoy your tinfoil hat while it lasts.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

In case you might not have noticed, WADA is always a lesser power to the courts.

I have no doubt Essendon will try and get this into the mainstream court system, however, those courts will be extremely reticent to deal with the issue when there's an ordained court setup already specifically for athletic pursuit - Court of Arbitration for Sport.

As long as procedural fairness is followed then it just won't happen. The mainstream court system will defer to the agreements set out already in deeds of agreement and where they have specific expertise.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

But should a substance be OK if it has approval from say Nicaragua ( no offence to Nicaragua ) which may have a looser regulatory system.

And some countries approve substances, and other countries ban the same substance. This doesn't necessarily lead to an even playing field. And there be an element of confusion.

This is why I doubt the long term application of SO.

More dribble, S0 is there to first ensure the new drug is "safe" to use hence being passed for therapeutic use anywhere in the world. WADA does not care which country accepts it.

Once it's been deemed as safe, then it's determined if it fits within S0-S9. If it doesn't fit any of those categories then as far as WADA is concerned you can jam as much into your body as you want even though local authorities in different countries may even deem the drug illegal or set out specific dosage levels as a maximum. WADA is not a medical fraternity, it's a doping agency.

S0 is so black and white I have no idea why people are trying to argue differently.