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Review Keeffe - A selection quandary
- Thread starter Quicky
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Simplistic view.
TheFreshBanana
Hall of Famer
Simplistic in what way?
I think you're exaggerating how "good" Keeffe has been. That was probably one of the worst individual performances I've seen from a player, in a while, solely from the point that his confidence was so shaken, he started getting lazy, trailing off his man, slipping over etc. it affected his whole game.
We have Nathan Brown waiting in the wing, it would be silly not to bring him in after a performance from Keeffe like that.
You mentioned Young in a previous post, Young provides us a role that we very little have. He provides us run and carry, a raking left foot, and can also play that loose defender. What other player can do that? Seedsman? He's just starting his first game back from injury this week.
Simplistic view? No.
Easy really.
We lost so everyone pick the worst player in your opinion that deserves to be dropped?
FFS how hard is it for you drama queens to realise it was a shit team effort not the fault of 1 player?
If that's the case drop Tooves Steel,Lumumba,Young,Blair..........................the list continues
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TheFreshBanana
Hall of Famer
Tooves is our best small defender. He has proven this in many seasons ago, in this season alone from injury. He was also playing on Betts who usually carves us up.Easy really.
We lost so everyone pick the worst player in your opinion that deserves to be dropped?
FFS how hard is it for you drama queens to realise it was a shit team effort not the fault of 1 player?
If that's the case drop Tooves Steel,Lumumba,Young,Blair..........................the list continues
Steele, he has shown strong performances this season and in the past too. Will a Dwyer, JT, Adams or a Kennedy be able to rack up 25+ possessions a game and kick goals?
Lumumba, like Young provides us a unique playing style to the team.
Young, already stated.
Blair, had 17+ possessions on the weekend as a FP/HFF. I don't think he had a bad game at all.
Sorry, but Keeffes game was much poorer than the 5 players I just mentioned. We have a seasoned player who's fit and ready to come in, and Keeffe dished up a very bad performance.
These are the reasons for him to be dropped.
He was,not lately.
Yep they are unique.
missed an easy goal,lucky for him he redeemed himself later on.
So Brown would have been the saviour for the night?
Please.
TheFreshBanana
Hall of Famer
Where have I said he would have been the saviour?
But Keeffe had a poor performance in his own right, worse than the other players imo, he was even thrown up forward and we played Lumumba on Podsiadly.
Based on this, you have to reward good performances but it goes the other way as well. When you start giving out easy spots to particularly the fringe players, the whole concept of depth and competing for spots goes out the window. Also, you bring in Brown because you think he will play a better game than Keeffe next round.
Let's not argue mate.
Your point is valid,but I think mine is also.
Let's just agree to disagree.
Id be worried about Brown shoulder popping out again. He probably really needs to the surgery to fix it but is playing on. Not a fan of talking a risk. I'd like to see more of Brown in the VFL playing for his spot first.
Yeh and put Gorden up front next to Cloke.
- Moderator
- #87
I don't think dropping a player just because he had a bad game is good management. Alter the selected team based on matchups not to send a message to someone to pull up their socks - this is not an attitude problem and disciplinary action is not warranted (as is what, in effect, dropping a player is in this instance). Keefe was simply beaten by his opponent and had a bad game,it happens.
Perhaps more criticism should be directed to the coaching panel who got this matchup wrong, or didn't rearrange the backline earlier in the game, who knows. However, as posted above, 60 forward entries by the Crows would suggest the problem was further up the ground. Can't expect the defense to withstand the tsunami in those circumstances.
Perhaps more criticism should be directed to the coaching panel who got this matchup wrong, or didn't rearrange the backline earlier in the game, who knows. However, as posted above, 60 forward entries by the Crows would suggest the problem was further up the ground. Can't expect the defense to withstand the tsunami in those circumstances.
Currently I live overseas so have not been able to watch the game yet. Only listened to the call. Can't watch the game till someone either posts it on youtube (hint hint to anyone who reads this) or seeds it on a torrent site (hint hint to anyone who reads this) But from the posts I have read it sounds like he dropped his head and stopped trying. If this is true then in my opinion it is every reason to drop him.
- Moderator
- #90
Make no mistake, he certainly had a shocker but IMO I don't believe it warrants dropping based on this one game. Sure, he will get "feedback" or coaching, whatever they call it within the club and it is warranted but I don't think it is appropriate that Keefe be singled out for what was a dreadful team performance. There where multiple failures or breakdowns across the board and unless Keefe is displaying a pattern of behaviour, then calls to drop him are premature and a bit reactionary.
The obvious change is to get Fasolo in the forward line because we need more talent up there. Keeping a side to 71 points on a bad night is still a testament to out overall defense, but scoring 50 points and normally only kicking 80 a match is a pointer to a deep problem around half forward.
Opposition defenders drop off our forwards too easily because some of them aren't a goal threat. Need more scoring power in there.
Opposition defenders drop off our forwards too easily because some of them aren't a goal threat. Need more scoring power in there.
Thats a really harsh critique. Our KP stocks arent as bad as you make out, the age isnt a factor either, if anything it is a bonus, im not sure where you are coming from that aspect, or what age/quality ideally you think we should have. KPP are generally coming into their prime 26 onwards.
Brown is 25
White is 26
Keefe is 24
Frost is 22
Cloke is 27
Reid is 25
KPP arent there for rebound. Reid is probably the perfect exception to that rule, however with him looking destined for up forward we cant be expecting too much of Frost/Keefe or Brown to play up to the standards of what Reid could. If you want that , then its simple , Reid has to go back.
We really are in big trouble if we are relying on shut down defenders on big forwards to have elite kicking/rebound skills.
Frost is a speedy back with grunt, something we havent had since i can remember, he will only get better.
Keefe id agree is one dimensional , but he isnt shabby for a depth kpp if is is required. I still think its a case of if Brown cant play, then Keefe does. We should never have two of Keefe or Brown in the same team if we have options between those 2 and Frost for down back.
Brown is a top shelf shut down defender, he should always be first option for FB. But he should never play on those speedy type forwards like Franklin, thankfully we have Frost for those types now.
Ill give you Cloke being mentally fragile, for the coin he is on, his output is atrocious. In saying that as much as i have bagged him , we would be worse off without him. He does need to get smarter, he is probably the dumbest footballer our list.
White has shown glimpses ,but not enough yet, i think he will get better as the season goes, so agree the jury is still out on him.
Still think you have over dramatised the outlook on our kp stocks from one game , when we were missing basically our best KPP in Reid
The one massive glaring hole on our list is a young kp forward being groomed in the vfl, hopefully moore is the answer ?
Kennedy will rip him one next week if we play Keefe on him. Kennedy coming off 11 goals to Keefe conceeding 3 to 5 goals is a recipe for disaster. Brown has to come in
Quicky
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- Thread starter
- #94
Brown also has a good record on Kennedy. Toovey has a dominant record on Darling. That leaves Keeffe or Frost on the resting ruckman. Ordinarily I think that match up should be Keeffes but on form Frost is the better choice. I'm interested in how he would handle the extra height also.
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Some nice match ups next week for us!!
Yeah the resting ruck could be an issue. Frost would be giving away basically 10 cms to Cox or Natanui.
Quicky
Brownlow Medallist
- May 27, 2008
- 26,083
- 32,184
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- Collingwood
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- Socceroos, Melbourne Victory
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- #97
It was funny when Keeffe dumped Jenkins, Buckley's reaction was clearly exasperation (wide eyes, hands out, "wtf") at the decision being made. At least how I read his body language.
cleomenes
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- Nov 18, 2010
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I don't expect Toovey to go to Darling: he is still regaining form after his injury. Later in the year it would be a different story. Expect Frost of Langdon to get that job. I would think Brown would come in to play on Kennedy. Toovey and Williams should get the resting midfielders. That leaves the resting ruck. On height, you would think Keeffe, but I would expect Maxwell to be the nominal back pocket on the resting ruck. So an opponent for Keeffe will depend on whether the Eagles play a third ruck in Lycett, which they have been doing. If they do, Keeffe is needed and has to play. If they don't, he is surplus for this week and should be left out.
Keeffe is a very inexperienced player who was crushed by the circumstances. You would expect him to learn from the experience, and you would expect the coaches to work through the mistakes he made. If every full back who had 4 goals kicked on him was rejected, no team would have an occupant for the position. Keeffe has so many good traits that it would be high order stupidity to judge him for a game in which the ball was raining on him and his co defenders, and he only let 4 through. Remember that the controversial one was set up by other players upfield, and Keeffe was one against two with everybody separated by metres. It was not his fault. That leaves 3.
The panic when he didn't rush a behind could be seen as an attempt to be creative in close. On a night when the pressure was causing fumbles everywhere, it was a risk, but games are won by risks like that coming off, as well as lost when they don't. This night should not be seen as defining Keeffe's career.
Keeffe is a very inexperienced player who was crushed by the circumstances. You would expect him to learn from the experience, and you would expect the coaches to work through the mistakes he made. If every full back who had 4 goals kicked on him was rejected, no team would have an occupant for the position. Keeffe has so many good traits that it would be high order stupidity to judge him for a game in which the ball was raining on him and his co defenders, and he only let 4 through. Remember that the controversial one was set up by other players upfield, and Keeffe was one against two with everybody separated by metres. It was not his fault. That leaves 3.
The panic when he didn't rush a behind could be seen as an attempt to be creative in close. On a night when the pressure was causing fumbles everywhere, it was a risk, but games are won by risks like that coming off, as well as lost when they don't. This night should not be seen as defining Keeffe's career.
- Banned
- #99
Need fasolo kicking the ball into the f50. Our delivery is woeful not just in execution but also picking out the best target.
Fas needs to play as a loose sweeper meaning maxwell has to play tighter to accommodate.
Play Brown as he is currently the better KPD of the two, Keeffe will be a good player but I still don't think he's quite ready for AFL. Give him the rest of the year in the 2nd's and let him work on his rebound game and his ruck work, if we can confidently rely on him taking 15% of the ruck duties (with Grundy and White taking the rest) as well as playing something like Reid's role from 2010 he will be a real weapon in 2015.
