Preview National Draft discussion (Picks 14, 35, 43, 58)

[alex_is_on_fire]

Even if they only miss half a year, they can't survive 11 games with only half an available list. IMO they'll need to delist another 5-10 players if that'll be the case. Easy pickings if some smart clubs are on the ball.

Agree but I think James_37 is on the money with the AFL setting up some horse shit rule to help them out.

This must set Essendon back 5 to 10 years as a massive deterrent. They won't care about losing money as the AFL will fund them or some cash cow will fund them, but wins and losses are the things that matters.

 

[Danoz]

What I suspect might happen, is Essendon will be given an exemption from the list cap of 40 and allowed to draft in a supplementary list of 23+year old players to play as required during these suspensions. These players are then immediately delisted once their other players return.

Even if its 2 years and Essendon decide they'll have to delist all 25 players, the PSD will have been held more than likely before anything is resolved and appealed three times by James Hird.

Agree but I think James_37 is on the money with the AFL setting up some horse shit rule to help them out.

This must set Essendon back 5 to 10 years as a massive deterrent. They won't care about losing money as the AFL will fund them or some cash cow will fund them, but wins and losses are the things that matters.

Surely there will be a lot of objections from other teams about this though? Effectively it would mean the teams that play them early on play reserves and the rest of the season are at full strength (figuratively speaking). Plus to give a team, that has blatantly broken rules, a leg up list wise is utter bullshit. If they are allowed to do this I will not only be shocked but absolutely disgusted.

 

[ManInTheArena]

That's what everyone said about Tippett. Now he's on $1m per year.

No, Tippett wasn't a man mountain, he was just tall and also played basketball. There are always exception to the rule arguments, like saying anyone could play until they're 40 because what about Dustin Fletcher but at the end of the day the odds of McKenzie becoming Kurt Tippett are very long.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Surely there will be a lot of objections from other teams about this though? Effectively it would mean the teams that play them early on play reserves and the rest of the season are at full strength (figuratively speaking). Plus to give a team, that has blatantly broken rules, a leg up list wise is utter bullshit. If they are allowed to do this I will not only be shocked but absolutely disgusted.

On one hand, I agree with this and had the same thought that they would object.

But on the other hand, I also get the impression the other 17 clubs would just want this over and done with and would agree to a very simple model the AFL commission put forward. And the AFL commission usually get what they want.

 

[GROTTO]

If they are given 2 years suspension, they will need to delist them to construct a functioning list to play the season and to counter any injuries or form. They can not go 2 years with 16 or 17 players plus a bunch of rookie picks.

I think the point you raised about a functioning list for two years is the crucial issue.

2 years is a long time, lets not forget its not missing two years, its also not being part of a footy club for two years unlike ACL injuries. A Club may take a chance on some of their younger players but even thats a long shot. Once their brand is damaged goods it will be curtains.

Can the Port players - Ryder and Wantfrees train at the Power?

 

[GROTTO]

Even if they only miss half a year, they can't survive 11 games with only half an available list. IMO they'll need to delist another 5-10 players if that'll be the case. Easy pickings if some smart clubs are on the ball.

They wont delist if its only 11 games. Essendon will maintain their arrogance to survive despite adversity. Albeit self inflicted.

 

[Mattrox]

They wont delist if its only 11 games. Essendon will maintain their arrogance to survive despite adversity. Albeit self inflicted.

How can they be on a list if banned? They are not allowed to be employed, participte at any club or be involved with any club. Being on a list is being involved.

The AFL will have to have a mechanism where they are not on Essendon's list during bans, but they automatically can be listed by Essendon after suspensions are finished.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Was Justin Charles banned from turning up to Richmond in the 1990's?

or was he simply suspended?

 

[GROTTO]

How can they be on a list if banned? They are not allowed to be employed, participte at any club or be involved with any club. Being on a list is being involved.

The AFL will have to have a mechanism where they are not on Essendon's list during bans, but they automatically can be listed by Essendon after suspensions are finished.

Well wasnt Tippett banned and still on the Sydney list? Same with the players involved in gambling.

 

[Mattrox]

Well wasnt Tippett banned and still on the Sydney list? Same with the players involved in gambling.

This is covered under anti doping rules.

Tippett was suspended. Not banned from participating in any WADA signatory competition.

 

[Rusty Crow]

Was Justin Charles banned from turning up to Richmond in the 1990's?

or was he simply suspended?

The AFL tribunal suspended him for 16 matches, as there was not an anti-drug policy in place at the time.

Ahmed Saad might be a better example 18 month ban then delisted at seasons end.

 

[Mego Red]

Not sure I agree with this. Off the top of my head Libba won a Brownlow and didn't Shaun Hart win a norm Smith? I think you would find that there has been quite a few that have succeeded. The real question that I have though is what exactly holds you back when you are shorter? I mean this guy has amazing skills and endurance and despite what some people say he is actually very fast. He obviously won't be in any marking duels but why does that matter if he plays outside mid and no one can keep up with him. I suppose what I'm saying is how would Brent Harvey be a better player if he was 6 inches taller. I know in NFL small running backs are doing really well at the moment because they are hard to find in traffic and taller players have trouble tackling them. In AFL I would think someone of his height would be almost impossible to tackle legally.
Anyway I just can't see how a guy that everyone thinks would go No.1 if he was 20 cm taller might not even get drafted. I would be more than happy for us to take a punt on him, especially as we aren't weak in any areas except potentially outside mids with pace and good skills.

I'll give you Libba and Harvey - but Shaun Hart is four inches taller than Daniel.

 

[Mego Red]

Ended up asking Chris25 about Bailey Dale



Shame there isn't a profile of him anywhere, seems like our first rookie option/ pick 59 range.

Grab Inside Football - there's a good write up in there.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Is there a reason why there is such a a long time between the grand final and the national draft?

I would have thought it would be in both parties interest ie the draftee's and the Clubs to know what their plans for the future are sooner rather than later.

I presume it is because of their year 12 exams?

How about as simple as spreading the footy over the off season. Just imagine if all footy stopped immediately after the GF. It would mean Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb would be filled with nothing more than rumour and innuendos.......Oh wait a sec that's what we are already doing. Anyway If we didn't have the trade and the different drafts spread over a couple of months I think it would kill me.

 

[Carmo]

I'll give you Libba and Harvey - but Shaun Hart is four inches taller than Daniel.

Jarryd Blair. Current Collingwood player. Listed height 174cm. Elite Attributes: Answer this for yourself, but I cant recall him being elite in speed, or endurance, nor particularly skilled or good goal sense. Though he is not poor at any of these, he's very good at most of them bordering on but not quite at elite.

Blair went quite well under Malthouse, was getting competition wide accolades there for a while, not quite going so well under Buckley.

By comparison Caleb has about the same speed, more endurance, better skills and better goal sense, similar heights and although Blair is more nuggety in a couple of years Daniel could get up to that. Not saying he should be first round but you'd have to be thinking about him by third round i would reckon.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Agreed, within a week of the draft is where reporters like Quayle and a lesser extent Twomey get their goss.

Its interesting going back and seeing how these two have done in recent years with regards to their mail.

In 2012, Emma Quayle had the players going to the right teams up until pick 15, she got McCrae and Stringer around the wrong way with 5&6, then with 12 and 14 she had Corr and Jaksch around the wrong way. She then got Hrovat wrong at 15, but got 16 and 17 right, before getting the next few mixed up a bit, although most went there abouts.

In 2012, Twomey got the first 4 right, then messed up 5, 6, 7 and 8. He got Vlastuin right at 9, Daniher was FS at 10, but from there he got maybe 1 in 3, 1 in 4.

Oddly enough both were smack on right up until pick 14 in 2013, where GWS's pick 14 seemed to shape the rest of the draft, as neither got much right after that.

I looked at 2011, couldn't find anything for Twomey, however Quayle had the 15 all going to the right clubs bar Longer to GWS(went to Brisbane) and Greene to Brisbane (went to GWS). Note that GWS owned 11 of those 15 picks, so its pretty difficult to judge, however her top 15 all went in the top 15 on draft day.

All of this says to me that we probably won't be too much the wiser as to who we will pick come draft day, however we will have a pretty good idea of who will be available.

Certainly if there were a draft where it was a good idea to drop down 4 picks from 10-14 for 12 picks later in the draft, this was probably it. The proof of the pudding will obviously be in eating though.



The only way for mine that it would make sense is if we certainly weren't after a key defender as many feel we are. There seems to be little consensus about where players go in this draft, but what people do seem certain about is that a bunch of key defenders will go between 8 and 14. If we're specifically after a key defender, then you don't go giving a bunch of clubs also keen for one a leg up.

I haven't made a comment on our swapping pick 10 to 14 and then getting pick 35 for 40 something. Seems like most here have a mixed opinions but for those who are anti the swap want to know who our first pick would have been if we had pick 10. Did we get the same man. From my point of view I reckon the club has a list that they want as our first pick and that we don't have a simple "lets get Joe Bloggs". If we were truly targeting a player I don't believe we would have made the swap. Given the evenness of the first 30 picks Getting an earlier pick in the second round was a smart move. As for the type of player that we will get at 14 well that remains to be seen but I like the idea of filling up on talls and trying to address our other requirements (fast outside and KPD) from what we currently have and trying for these types of players in 2015 draft. Perhaps a speedy outside player could come via the rookie draft

 

[mickfaxis]

How about as simple as spreading the footy over the off season. Just imagine if all footy stopped immediately after the GF. It would mean Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb would be filled with nothing more than rumour and innuendos.......Oh wait a sec that's what we are already doing. Anyway If we didn't have the trade and the different drafts spread over a couple of months I think it would kill me.

AFL keep this spread over many months to keep its brand in the papers, on the radio, and news. With soccer coming hard at cricket as the nation's number 1 attended summer sport, the AFL need to stretch out these major off-season events (Trade "fortnight, IR Rules, National Draft) for fear of these other sporting codes hogging the papers. Pretty smart really...but annoying for all of us who just want the Draft to go ahead.

 

[Pugsley]

AFL keep this spread over many months to keep its brand in the papers, on the radio, and news. With soccer coming hard at cricket as the nation's number 1 attended summer sport, the AFL need to stretch out these major off-season events (Trade "fortnight, IR Rules, National Draft) for fear of these other sporting codes hogging the papers. Pretty smart really...but annoying for all of us who just want the Draft to go ahead.

The IR needs to be scrapped, to be sure to be sure.

 

[GROTTO]

Anyway If we didn't have the trade and the different drafts spread over a couple of months I think it would kill me.

I actually believe one day that the season will be longer, games shorter and that the footy season will spread till the end of October and start in March week 1. One way to achieve this is by having a bigger bench on match day.

From November till March that gives us 4 months. February will be preseason matches so effectively just three months of no footy.

During that time it will be filled with trades, draft etc etc.

At the moment its just too bloody long with no footy. Fortunately I love my cricket so that help kills the time, feel sorry for those that dont like cricket and dont follow soccer, it must be very miserable to be without a sport to follow.

BrissyCrow dont worry once Jan rolls in, the season is almost around the corner with preseason matches. This is the hardest time of the year.

 

[GROTTO]

The IR needs to be scrapped, to be sure to be sure.

I struggle to comprehend what pride an AFL player may have in playing for Australia in IR???

I know they state this a lot, but really its means nothing to over 90% of those that follow AFL.

To put it into perspective, I would rather my Club win an extra H&A game then for Australia to win the IR series.

 

[BrissyCrow]

I actually believe one day that the season will be longer, games shorter and that the footy season will spread till the end of October and start in March week 1. One way to achieve this is by having a bigger bench on match day.

From November till March that gives us 4 months. February will be preseason matches so effectively just three months of no footy.

During that time it will be filled with trades, draft etc etc.

At the moment its just too bloody long with no footy. Fortunately I love my cricket so that help kills the time, feel sorry for those that dont like cricket and dont follow soccer, it must be very miserable to be without a sport to follow.

BrissyCrow dont worry once Jan rolls in, the season is almost around the corner with preseason matches. This is the hardest time of the year.

That's another 2 months way but as you say I love my cricket as well and I enjoy the NFL. Interestly the NFL have only 16 weeks of minor round games and we already have 22???

 

[fabs33]

I struggle to comprehend what pride an AFL player may have in playing for Australia in IR???

I know they state this a lot, but really its means nothing to over 90% of those that follow AFL.

To put it into perspective, I would rather my Club win an extra H&A game then for Australia to win the IR series.

I'd prefer State of Origin one hundred times over the International Rules series.

 

[BrissyCrow]

The IR needs to be scrapped, to be sure to be sure.

Why did the Irish man wear two condoms......sure to be sure

 

[BrissyCrow]

I'd prefer State of Origin one hundred times over the International Rules series.

I would love some concept of state of origin or all stars. Everyone has a preference as to when to play such a game but I have to say I like the NFL system. Two teams are selected from the teams that are not going to play in the grand final. The game is played the weekend before the grand final. As an added benefit it means the two grand finalists get a extra week to recover before the GF. It also allows the public to watch the best of the rest play in one game. The game could be moved around Australia as needed.

 

[fabs33]

I would love some concept of state of origin or all stars. Everyone has a preference as to when to play such a game but I have to say I like the NFL system. Two teams are selected from the teams that are not going to play in the grand final. The game is played the weekend before the grand final. As an added benefit it means the two grand finalists get a extra week to recover before the GF. It also allows the public to watch the best of the rest play in one game. The game could be moved around Australia as needed.

Hadn't thought of an All Stars game, although I do like the NBA's East vs West concept. Just as long as it it's not Vic versus everyone else, it's degrading to the other states to be thrown all together, and unfair for the Victorian players to be the only ones to get the opportunity to represent their state.