Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[fronkalicious]

Still think Jones would have been useful next year, working in conjunction with Boyd (particularly if Crameri cops a lengthy ban). And I also think that Tutt would have also benefitted, having the extra KPF to blast the ball in at, not having to rely on delivering a precision pass.

But if neither of those guys could actually see they were better off with us, then may Carlton sink without a trace next year...

Jones yes. I've always said carlton got him for slight unders. He's not a quality afl footballer though. Potential to be an ok piece, but nothing more.

Tutt sucks.

 

[TedDougChris]

Jones yes. I've always said carlton got him for slight unders. He's not a quality afl footballer though. Potential to be an ok piece, but nothing more.

Tutt sucks.

With Boyd, Stringer, Crameri, Campbell et al - all Jones had to do was be ok. Agree on the blues paying unders for him.

I know your views on Tutt, but his stats last year put a few better loved and supported players to shame.

 

[JJHunter]

Jones yes. I've always said carlton got him for slight unders. He's not a quality afl footballer though. Potential to be an ok piece, but nothing more.

Tutt sucks.

Seeing how Jones goes next year is probably one of the things im dying to watch next year.
I dont think he is bad as some say here.
Looking at other fwds of same age at other clubs they are guven a nice ride of games.
Thought jones was harshly treated at selection last year.

Nth persisted with Black all year who had some horror games.
Jones won us a game one week, was great defensively the next and then played a bad one and was dropped for the year.

Cant wait to see if he plays well working with casbolt and henderson

 

[BRWB]

With Boyd, Stringer, Crameri, Campbell et al - all Jones had to do was be ok. Agree on the blues paying unders for him.

I know your views on Tutt, but his stats last year put a few better loved and supported players to shame.

What stats, the VFL stats? Tutt was a crap player who continually froze on the big stage when given the opportunity (when he got the ball, which was rarely). Absolutely no loss.

Jones good riddance, could be good, likely he won't be though.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

With Boyd, Stringer, Crameri, Campbell et al - all Jones had to do was be ok. Agree on the blues paying unders for him.

I know your views on Tutt, but his stats last year put a few better loved and supported players to shame.

Jason Tutt averages (7 games)
9.6 kicks, 2 marks, 4.7 handballs, 1.4 goals, 4.5 tackles, 2.1 clangers

His tackle average is certainly above average, but what else is a standout?
And who in particular do you think that puts to shame?

Jason Johannisen (11 games)
10 kicks, 3.8 marks, 6 handballs, 0.1 goals, 2.3 tackles, 2 clangers

Luke Dahlhaus (21 games)
11.3 kicks, 3.4 marks, 10.1 handballs, 0.8 goals, 4.1 tackles, 2.1 clangers

Nathan Hrovat (12 games)
8.75 kicks, 3.3 marks, 9 handballs, 0.7 goals, 3.1 tackles, 1.4 clangers

Mitch Wallis (13 games)
5.9 kicks, 1.5 marks, 10.5 handballs, 0.2 goals, 4.4 tackles, 2.3 clangers

Liam Picken (22 games)
9.8 kicks, 3.9 marks, 8.4 handballs, 0.1 goals, 4 tackles, 1.9 clangers

Koby Stevens (20 games)
7.1 kicks, 3.7 marks, 10.3 handballs, 0.7 goals, 2.5 tackles, 1.8 clangers

Lachie Hunter (14 games)
9 kicks, 3.6 marks, 5.1 handballs, 0.6 goals, 2.6 tackles, 1.7 clangers

Lin Jong (6 games)
4.7 kicks, 1.7 marks, 6.8 handballs, 0.5 goals, 4.2 tackles, 2 clangers

Jake Stringer (18 games)
7.4 kicks, 3.1 marks, 4.8 handballs, 1.4 goals, 2.4 tackles, 1.6 clangers

Stewart Crameri (22 games)
7.6 kicks, 3.6 marks, 6 handballs, 1.7 goals, 2.5 tackles, 2.1 clangers

 

[BEaston]

Comparison to Stringer is an interesting one...

 

[JTCWBFC]

Comparison to Stringer is an interesting one...

Tutt doesn't deserve to tie stringers boots


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dogsman16]

Comparison to Stringer is an interesting one...

Stringer averaged 2.4 goals per game in the last half of the season far more than any other player on our list. Massive difference in output between Tutt and Stringer particularly when he also spent 5 games in a Key defensive position. I thought Tutt wasn't that bad in the games he played but their ability and output were in different stratospheres.

 

[Reptilia]

Stats dont tell the full story.

 

[Reptilia]

Do stats show how he panics with the ball at important times when we were on the break etc? And how stringer pulls something out of his ass to score?

 

[ManOfClay]

Do stats show how he panics with the ball at important times when we were on the break etc? And how stringer pulls something out of his ass to score?

Sadly I remember Tutt being clutch against Collingwood, and can't erase the final minute of the GWS game

 

[BEaston]

Yep Tutt was clutch in front of goal. Unfortunately people form an opinion early on and have selective memories from then on out.

 

[Mofra]

Jason Tutt averages (7 games)
9.6 kicks, 2 marks, 4.7 handballs, 1.4 goals, 4.5 tackles, 2.1 clangers

His tackle average is certainly above average, but what else is a standout?

1.4 goals per game is good for a small forward.
I would have preferred to keep him - maybe he isn't best 22 but he's top 30 which is what a healthy list needs.

 

[BEaston]

1.4 goals per game is good for a small forward.
I would have preferred to keep him - maybe he isn't best 22 but he's top 30 which is what a healthy list needs.

Moreso because he usually played on a wing.

 

[TBOW]

Jason Tutt averages (7 games)
9.6 kicks, 2 marks, 4.7 handballs, 1.4 goals, 4.5 tackles, 2.1 clangers

His tackle average is certainly above average, but what else is a standout?

Tutt was second at our club in average goals and third in average I50's and tackles.

He will never be anything more than a role player, but I thought he took a step forward last year. Deserved more love.

 

[Werewolf]

1.4 goals per game is good for a small forward.
I would have preferred to keep him - maybe he isn't best 22 but he's top 30 which is what a healthy list needs.

But... but... but... but you had him in your bottom 50?

 

[TedDougChris]

What stats, the VFL stats? Tutt was a crap player who continually froze on the big stage when given the opportunity (when he got the ball, which was rarely). Absolutely no loss.

Jones good riddance, could be good, likely he won't be though.

Jason Tutt averages (7 games)
9.6 kicks, 2 marks, 4.7 handballs, 1.4 goals, 4.5 tackles, 2.1 clangers

His tackle average is certainly above average, but what else is a standout?
And who in particular do you think that puts to shame?

Jason Johannisen (11 games)
10 kicks, 3.8 marks, 6 handballs, 0.1 goals, 2.3 tackles, 2 clangers

Luke Dahlhaus (21 games)
11.3 kicks, 3.4 marks, 10.1 handballs, 0.8 goals, 4.1 tackles, 2.1 clangers

Nathan Hrovat (12 games)
8.75 kicks, 3.3 marks, 9 handballs, 0.7 goals, 3.1 tackles, 1.4 clangers

Mitch Wallis (13 games)
5.9 kicks, 1.5 marks, 10.5 handballs, 0.2 goals, 4.4 tackles, 2.3 clangers

Liam Picken (22 games)
9.8 kicks, 3.9 marks, 8.4 handballs, 0.1 goals, 4 tackles, 1.9 clangers

Koby Stevens (20 games)
7.1 kicks, 3.7 marks, 10.3 handballs, 0.7 goals, 2.5 tackles, 1.8 clangers

Lachie Hunter (14 games)
9 kicks, 3.6 marks, 5.1 handballs, 0.6 goals, 2.6 tackles, 1.7 clangers

Lin Jong (6 games)
4.7 kicks, 1.7 marks, 6.8 handballs, 0.5 goals, 4.2 tackles, 2 clangers

Jake Stringer (18 games)
7.4 kicks, 3.1 marks, 4.8 handballs, 1.4 goals, 2.4 tackles, 1.6 clangers

Stewart Crameri (22 games)
7.6 kicks, 3.6 marks, 6 handballs, 1.7 goals, 2.5 tackles, 2.1 clangers

This information is taken from a post from Dannnnnnnnnn - so not my own work.

First, some stats. Most pressure acts per game at the club. Tenth most goals at the club off seven games. Third highest goal per game average at the club. Third highest tackles per game at the club. Third highest inside 50s per game at the club.

These are good numbers for someone with under 50 games to his name. I had also thought I'd seen data on score assist/involvement - but I've checked and I must have been mistaken - his numbers are rubbish there...

But on this basis, he's getting the ball a similar number of times to Wallis, Hunter and Jong. Slightly more than Crameri and Stringer - which is no real surprise here, as the guys above play a range of different roles and the comparison isn't great. But he's still averaging nearly 1.5 goals per game (very nice), putting on a lot of pressure (best tackle average there) and a similar clanger rate to a couple of others up there.

I agree he has weaknesses in his game and needs to work on composure. But on that average, if he'd played 20 games he would have ended up with around 30 goals. That's not a bad return. And when we've lost effectively all our other runners (Cooney and Griff) at the same time - he was worth keeping for another year. Good shot for goal (unlike some we could name) - one of the best goal accuracies at the club last season.

 

[timtamWB]

Yep Tutt was clutch in front of goal. Unfortunately people form an opinion early on and have selective memories from then on out.

Reminds me of a lot of Bulldogs supporters that over the last couple of years still cringed when Jones had the ball in front of goal.

 

[True Dog]

Stringer averaged 2.4 goals per game in the last half of the season far more than any other player on our list. Massive difference in output between Tutt and Stringer particularly when he also spent 5 games in a Key defensive position. I thought Tutt wasn't that bad in the games he played but their ability and output were in different stratospheres.

I heard somewhere that he was second in the AFL for goals scored in the last nine games?....

 

[Dogsman16]

I heard somewhere that he was second in the AFL for goals scored in the last nine games?....

Yeah was on the radio yesterday.

 

[JJHunter]

Sadly I remember Tutt being clutch against Collingwood, and can't erase the final minute of the GWS game

Very good memory - I had Shield wipe it from my mind but you put it back in there.

Lets be honest - alot of posters in here are taking swipes at guys on their way out.
For people to question Griffen the footballer and what he has done for our club - before treating it so disrespectfully - shows that people are happy to have crack at blokes once they are no longer one of us. If there was one blokes whose footy and commitment on the field you couldnt question over the last few years it would be him - yet others to have a crack at him, tutt and others that have left.

I dont read into it any more than venting.

 

[JJHunter]

Moreso because he usually played on a wing.

and was sub in a couple of games from memory

 

[JJHunter]

I agree he has weaknesses in his game and needs to work on composure. But on that average, if he'd played 20 games he would have ended up with around 30 goals. That's not a bad return. And when we've lost effectively all our other runners (Cooney and Griff) at the same time - he was worth keeping for another year. Good shot for goal (unlike some we could name) - one of the best goal accuracies at the club last season.

He was worth keeping - the club tried to keep him. He left.
So cannot bag the club (not saying you are) as it was out of their control - he walked after being offered a contract much like Jones and Higgins - along with Griff and Cooney who were in contract. Just shows how much of a mess it got down there.

The blame game has been done to death - im not doing that - just reminding people that tutt walked - he was wanted by the club as I am sure they saw the potential or contribution he made like has been pointed out in the last few posts.

 

[immortalmike]

I was a fan of pretty much all the players that left bar Howard.
Tutt has aspects in his game that if not fixed (and they haven't in five years) will see that his stay at Carlton will be short. Hopefully he can forge a career though as he has some solid talent and work ethic. He'll never be a superstar but can be a cog in a successful side.

Griffen is a top five AFL midfielder. Anyone minimizing his loss or questioning his football is simply acting emotionally.

Cooney has been one of my favourite bulldogs of the past decade but is physically done. See Kelvin Templeton.

Jones has all the talent in the world and a strong work ethic. But he also lacks the mental fortitude to reach his potential, plus he also can't seem to build an AFL quality tank. He can make it as a second tall to decent effect, kicking 30ish a year. But to do that he'll need to stay switched on and provide defensive pressure. If he can't I see him being replaced by Jaksch. And let's face it he probably will anyway.

 

[maddog37]

Tutt wanted to leave.