News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

[jmac70]

May as well be a coalition, Labor can't win state elections without their help, let alone federal.

It's called the two party preferred system and it applies to both parties.

 

[Hagla]

Que? Legalisation doesnt mean governments are going to support ice addicts any more. Governments already spend a ton of money on rehabilitation and policing. Legalisation could be done in a way that it looks a little like the tobacco industry, where taxes on the drug could be used to fund the health costs etc.

I've seen comments where people say that they might agree with legalisation if there is some proof that it works.... all I can say is that there is overwhelming proof that the current system doesnt work.

I'd be happy to go the complete opposite direction and have everyone tested for drugs before they can receive any government services whatsoever. If they test positive then they don't get any money or medical treatment or anything. heck it, they can go to jail for all I care, actually bring back the death penalty so we don't have to pay for their jail time. I couldn't give a heck about them.

 

[Maggie5]

Que? Legalisation doesnt mean governments are going to support ice addicts any more. Governments already spend a ton of money on rehabilitation and policing. Legalisation could be done in a way that it looks a little like the tobacco industry, where taxes on the drug could be used to fund the health costs etc.

I've seen comments where people say that they might agree with legalisation if there is some proof that it works.... all I can say is that there is overwhelming proof that the current system doesnt work.

The hypocrisy of this government in the recent announcement re ice is a joke when they defunded The Alcohol and Other Drugs Council of Australia an organization that had been in affect for many years.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...uncil-adca-administration-funding-cut/5119744
https://ama.com.au/ausmed/shock-funding-cut-silences-top-voice-alcohol-drugs
However despite the education players receive, maybe some think that they will not be caught.
I don't understand the need for external stimulants especially habit forming drugs.
Perhaps it may be because I have lost one nephew to drug taking and another is wreck and won't seek help.
I am not condemning these boys as the facts are unknown to any of us but it is just such a shame that they may lose their livelihood because of one mistake.

 

[Markfs]

The hypocrisy of this government in the recent announcement re ice is a joke when they defunded The Alcohol and Other Drugs Council of Australia an organization that had been in affect for many years.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...uncil-adca-administration-funding-cut/5119744
https://ama.com.au/ausmed/shock-funding-cut-silences-top-voice-alcohol-drugs
However despite the education players receive, maybe some think that they will not be caught.
I don't understand the need for external stimulants especially habit forming drugs.
Perhaps it may be because I have lost one nephew to drug taking and another is wreck and won't seek help.
I am not condemning these boys as the facts are unknown to any of us but it is just such a shame that they may lose their livelihood because of one mistake.

One point about what you wrote, if we are relying on footballers hoping that they wont be caught....then the battle has been lost. If someone wants to use something even though it will hurt them long-term - and I was a smoker for a number of years - then I think we should just let them use it - as with smoking. I dont see any difference between smoking and drugs, other than the fact that smokers become a burden later in life and druggies do it faster.

 

[Markfs]

I'd be happy to go the complete opposite direction and have everyone tested for drugs before they can receive any government services whatsoever. If they test positive then they don't get any money or medical treatment or anything. heck it, they can go to jail for all I care, actually bring back the death penalty so we don't have to pay for their jail time. I couldn't give a heck about them.

well why kill them if you dont care about them? why put them in jail if you dont care about them? .....just let them be...

personally, I'd like to see the people of the world redistributed so that the christians got one continent...the muslims another.... the war mongerers another...of course the christian war mongerers and muslim war mongerers would have to choose....

and I get to hang out in a small island in the pacific with peace-loving non-religious types...

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I went to holland many years ago and i've known a few dutch people, so I'll throw my two cents in. I agree that making weed and prostitution legal in holland might work there but not in Australia. However, I disagree with your reason. I've found Dutch people to be independent educated types - in general. In contrast, the majority of Australians are the direct opposite...which is probably why Australians are the biggest users of "recreational" drugs in the world.

Our education system is fairly rigid and in no way encourages independent thought. The 'nanny state' ideals are enforced more in the way in which we treat our students through rules etc rather than curriculum. Exchange students from all over Europe are amazed at the lack of trust the system places in students. Those from places like Norway and Sweden note a lack of maturity in kids the same age. The system is a victim of the litigious nature of many so I'm not sure how it can be fixed. You can't teach responsibility yet discourage it at the same time.
While our youth are getting that sort of educational experience, we can in no way legalise weed etc.

 

[Markfs]

Our education system is fairly rigid and in no way encourages independent thought. The 'nanny state' ideals are enforced more in the way in which we treat our students through rules etc rather than curriculum. Exchange students from all over Europe are amazed at the lack of trust the system places in students. Those from places like Norway and Sweden note a lack of maturity in kids the same age. The system is a victim of the litigious nature of many so I'm not sure how it can be fixed. You can't teach responsibility yet discourage it at the same time.
While our youth are getting that sort of educational experience, we can in no way legalise weed etc.

It's a good point. To put it in a footy context, I doubt the maturity of kids coming onto an AFL list and living away from home etc. While I support the sink or swim approach with the older footballers, the young ones look a bit like rabbits in the proverbial headlights. I imagine that most of them switch off when someone from the AFL comes around and talks about the dangers of drugs......their eyes say "sorry back in 10 minutes"

I totally agree with what you're saying about the education system. I've had some experience with uni students and you wonder what they've been doing for 12 years. The only ones that show any clarity are the ones that have worked part-time.

 

[Bard]

Our education system is fairly rigid and in no way encourages independent thought. The 'nanny state' ideals are enforced more in the way in which we treat our students through rules etc rather than curriculum. Exchange students from all over Europe are amazed at the lack of trust the system places in students. Those from places like Norway and Sweden note a lack of maturity in kids the same age. The system is a victim of the litigious nature of many so I'm not sure how it can be fixed. You can't teach responsibility yet discourage it at the same time.
While our youth are getting that sort of educational experience, we can in no way legalise weed etc.

I dunno, I don't recall ever feeling like a lack of responsibility or independence. Sure at University it becomes clear you're taken care of fairly well at High School but it doesn't mean you don't have room to make choices and understand the consequences for yourself. My only knock on it is that things like electives come into the system too late which makes children disinterested because they're not doing what they want to be doing.

 

[Hagla]

well why kill them if you dont care about them? why put them in jail if you dont care about them? .....just let them be...

personally, I'd like to see the people of the world redistributed so that the christians got one continent...the muslims another.... the war mongerers another...of course the christian war mongerers and muslim war mongerers would have to choose....

and I get to hang out in a small island in the pacific with peace-loving non-religious types...

I'm not religious, I also don't see how religion relates to this topic. I have been to a few of the poorer countries that produce a lot of the drugs that "don't hurt anyone". I can guarantee you that the drugs on our streets are hurting thousands of people before anyone has even taken them. They are killing thousands before they even get into the hands of what your idea of a drug dealer would be.

 

[Hagla]

well why kill them if you dont care about them? why put them in jail if you dont care about them? .....just let them be...

personally, I'd like to see the people of the world redistributed so that the christians got one continent...the muslims another.... the war mongerers another...of course the christian war mongerers and muslim war mongerers would have to choose....

and I get to hang out in a small island in the pacific with peace-loving non-religious types...

Oh and the reason I don't want to just leave them alone is because I'm the one who is going to have to support them when they go batshit crazy and need to get on the dole for the rest of their lives. It might sound selfish but I also think it's pretty bloody selfish to have a good time on drugs whilst living off everyone else. Why should I have to support someone else's habit? Further more, why should I have to support the mentally ill dole bludger that is left behind once play time is over?

 

[Maggie5]

One point about what you wrote, if we are relying on footballers hoping that they wont be caught....then the battle has been lost. If someone wants to use something even though it will hurt them long-term - and I was a smoker for a number of years - then I think we should just let them use it - as with smoking. I dont see any difference between smoking and drugs, other than the fact that smokers become a burden later in life and druggies do it faster.

I was meaning maybe, that is the way they think, which is wrong.

 

[Markfs]

I was meaning maybe, that is the way they think, which is wrong.

i understand what you were saying. it was a good point

 

[Markfs]

Oh and the reason I don't want to just leave them alone is because I'm the one who is going to have to support them when they go batshit crazy and need to get on the dole for the rest of their lives. It might sound selfish but I also think it's pretty bloody selfish to have a good time on drugs whilst living off everyone else. Why should I have to support someone else's habit? Further more, why should I have to support the mentally ill dole bludger that is left behind once play time is over?

the whole idea of freedom of choice is living with the consequences....no safety net.....ying and yang ....capisce - sorry its the italian in me?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I dunno, I don't recall ever feeling like a lack of responsibility or independence. Sure at University it becomes clear you're taken care of fairly well at High School but it doesn't mean you don't have room to make choices and understand the consequences for yourself. My only knock on it is that things like electives come into the system too late which makes children disinterested because they're not doing what they want to be doing.

With schools being rated on Yr 12 results and parents using this as a guide rather than breadth of education, many will resort to spoon feeding students and hammering in the skills that will get a good Yr12 result, get the kid into Uni and that's it, next please. Yes there are work skills programs like VET and VCAL in the Victorian system but Governments have been guilty of pulling money out of them. Some schools deliberately water down these programs in order to raise their academic profile. As a result, they attract a different kind of student and thus climb their way up the results table.
While a 2-3 hour exam at the end of the year is the only measure of success for VCE, schools will prioritise and teach for exam success. Celebrate the academics and give little or tokenistic regard to those who show leadership potential, as an example.
Your point about electives is valid but schools have little motivation to go down that line. Parents don't want to hear how schools are producing responsible and independent thinkers. They want the academic results. Schools are stuck betweena rock and a hard place so we need to educate the parents.

 

[ottoman]

well why kill them if you dont care about them? why put them in jail if you dont care about them? .....just let them be...

personally, I'd like to see the people of the world redistributed so that the christians got one continent...the muslims another.... the war mongerers another...of course the christian war mongerers and muslim war mongerers would have to choose....

and I get to hang out in a small island in the pacific with peace-loving non-religious types...

Can I be a citizen of your island

 

[Kavliaris69]

Drugs are awesome, that's common knowledge. If you disagree you are either Christian or have never tried them, or any of the good ones, so you don't don't qualify in having an opinion.

If these boys took clen on purpose and are found to be judged that way then they can cop it.

However, if they seriously and legitimately got stuffed on by a bad cut of coke then I feel the laws must be more flexible and lenient.
That of course won't happen and we know their careers are over, but that's exactly the point, their careers are going to be over because of pure accident and not purposeful.

Who the **** goes through their 20's without trying drugs? No one, and if you do, I feel sorry for you.
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom is what it is, keep that in mind at all times." Bill Hicks.

Gday posters from Pie land, I am not trolling but this is the worst post I have ever seen on BF. And I am including the Bay 13 flogs.

Drugs are awesome? Are you frickin serious? Do you know how many of the posters are kids wanting to get into the discussions on your board?
I feel sorry for you that this is your attitude and telling them drugs are awesome. You must be a total knob.

They should be lenient if it was "bad" coke? I didn't know that there was "good" coke. Seriously warped mate.

You feel sorry for people if they never tried drugs? That is just an arrogant, ignorant and just plain stupid comment to make. How many people do you know
who tried once or twice and got hooked from then, destroyed their life, destroyed their family, necked themselves, committed crimes, violence and fear?
Obviously you don't know anyone like that or you wouldn't have posted your views on infinite wisdom and awesome drug taking.

I am sure many of your fellow Pies posters know many people who did not benefit from awesome drugs. Flog of the year.

 

[ottoman]

Gday posters from Pie land, I am not trolling but this is the worst post I have ever seen on BF. And I am including the Bay 13 flogs.

Drugs are awesome? Are you frickin serious? Do you know how many of the posters are kids wanting to get into the discussions on your board?
I feel sorry for you that this is your attitude and telling them drugs are awesome. You must be a total knob.

They should be lenient if it was "bad" coke? I didn't know that there was "good" coke. Seriously warped mate.

You feel sorry for people if they never tried drugs? That is just an arrogant, ignorant and just plain stupid comment to make. How many people do you know
who tried once or twice and got hooked from then, destroyed their life, destroyed their family, necked themselves, committed crimes, violence and fear?
Obviously you don't know anyone like that or you wouldn't have posted your views on infinite wisdom and awesome drug taking.

I am sure many of your fellow Pies posters know many people who did not benefit from awesome drugs. Flog of the year.

I think his post was a bit tounge in cheek
Also you mention that drugs are bad by giving sensationalised examples of the harm it can do.
Are you aware that millions if not billions of people worldwide use drugs with no real detrimental effects on their lives or their families.
Abuse of any substance causes problems. Obesity costs taxpayers millions in health related costs. Has making it illegal solved the problem? No and it never will.

 

[Hagla]

the whole idea of freedom of choice is living with the consequences....no safety net.....ying and yang ....capisce - sorry its the italian in me?

Yeah it's not their welfare I'm concerned about. It's the rest of society having to shoulder their burden.

 

[Markfs]

Can I be a citizen of your island

as long as you vote for me as president ..

also all guys on the island have to be uglier than me...and the women....well you can guess..

 

[Markfs]

Gday posters from Pie land, I am not trolling but this is the worst post I have ever seen on BF. And I am including the Bay 13 flogs.

Drugs are awesome? Are you frickin serious? Do you know how many of the posters are kids wanting to get into the discussions on your board?
I feel sorry for you that this is your attitude and telling them drugs are awesome. You must be a total knob.

They should be lenient if it was "bad" coke? I didn't know that there was "good" coke. Seriously warped mate.

You feel sorry for people if they never tried drugs? That is just an arrogant, ignorant and just plain stupid comment to make. How many people do you know
who tried once or twice and got hooked from then, destroyed their life, destroyed their family, necked themselves, committed crimes, violence and fear?
Obviously you don't know anyone like that or you wouldn't have posted your views on infinite wisdom and awesome drug taking.

I am sure many of your fellow Pies posters know many people who did not benefit from awesome drugs. Flog of the year.

a late post from april 1st?....is there someway we can monitor the hawthorn board in case someone says something interesting?...or doesnt that happen?

 

[Maggie5]

Gday posters from Pie land, I am not trolling but this is the worst post I have ever seen on BF. And I am including the Bay 13 flogs.

Drugs are awesome? Are you frickin serious? Do you know how many of the posters are kids wanting to get into the discussions on your board?
I feel sorry for you that this is your attitude and telling them drugs are awesome. You must be a total knob.

They should be lenient if it was "bad" coke? I didn't know that there was "good" coke. Seriously warped mate.

You feel sorry for people if they never tried drugs? That is just an arrogant, ignorant and just plain stupid comment to make. How many people do you know
who tried once or twice and got hooked from then, destroyed their life, destroyed their family, necked themselves, committed crimes, violence and fear?
Obviously you don't know anyone like that or you wouldn't have posted your views on infinite wisdom and awesome drug taking.

I am sure many of your fellow Pies posters know many people who did not benefit from awesome drugs. Flog of the year.

I am sure you are not trolling but to come on the board and point out that ONE post is totally out of line and not acknowledge what the majority of posters have posted is a bit poor.
How many posters here even responded to the post besides you?
Happy for you to comment but at least at the same time acknowledge that the majority if not all agree with your sentiments.
Sometimes it is best to ignore some posts as to engage only encourages them. Hint.

 

[Gone Critical]

Gday posters from Pie land, I am not trolling but this is the worst post I have ever seen on BF. And I am including the Bay 13 flogs.

Drugs are awesome? Are you frickin serious? Do you know how many of the posters are kids wanting to get into the discussions on your board?
I feel sorry for you that this is your attitude and telling them drugs are awesome. You must be a total knob.

They should be lenient if it was "bad" coke? I didn't know that there was "good" coke. Seriously warped mate.

You feel sorry for people if they never tried drugs? That is just an arrogant, ignorant and just plain stupid comment to make. How many people do you know
who tried once or twice and got hooked from then, destroyed their life, destroyed their family, necked themselves, committed crimes, violence and fear?
Obviously you don't know anyone like that or you wouldn't have posted your views on infinite wisdom and awesome drug taking.

I am sure many of your fellow Pies posters know many people who did not benefit from awesome drugs. Flog of the year.

Thanks for your input but your opinion may be overreactive. For mine there are a few good messages to glean from Heir_Apparents post. Sometimes it is too easy to characterise the drugs as evil rather than look at the problems people have that lead them to abuse issues. In many ways a lot of the problems tied up with drug use relate to legality. All drugs, legal or not, have health consequences with chronic overuse. Alcohol is as bad as any. If you took away the hysteria and the legal consequences involved then long term heroin addiction is less of a health issue compared to long term alcohol abuse. Neither are good but the opiates are not associated with specific organ damage like alcohol is with the brain, liver, kidneys and gut.

Most people will not become addicted from trying heroin or many other illicit drugs once or twice or even more often. Is it a good idea to use them, no , not encouraging that but we should examine this truthfully.

Also it's true that a big number of our population use or have used illicit drugs a some stage of their life with little or no consequence. Likewise most people are able to use alcohol reasonably responsibly. If the Pie boys, as appears the case, got some clen mixed into say some coke or the like they are unlucky because all they were doing was what a significant portion of their peer group, footballers and non footballers, are doing. Yes they took a risk but it is going to be a massive price to pay

 

[ace andy]

Do you care about the slave labor conditions people work in so that you can wear cheap T-Shirts and shoes. Does it bother you that fruit pickers can work a full day in the stinking heat and earn a pittance so you can enjoy cheap fruit.
This sort of reasoning is flawed. All illicit drug production doesn't result in lines of dead bodies. Your sensationalising it. And if the governments made it legal so adults could use their own brains to decide what they want to do then the industry would not need to go underground.
Holland allows adults to smoke pot or take magic mushrooms etc. Doesn't seem to be a problem there.

Yes I do actually but I would say that low paying wages are not in the same league as kidnappings and murder. Mexican drug cartels cause murder as part of their business strategy. Its not even a by product but part of how they operate. If I said to you that I can get you cocaine but I have to go kill some kid you would be horrified. But people are fine with it as long as they don't have to see the results with their own eyes which disgusts me.

Anyway I am not against using drugs per say. For example magic mushroom or growing weed I don't care about for two reasons. 1) Nobody got hurt making it.2) The drug doesn't cause aggressive behaviour. IF they legalised cocaine and a reputable business made it I wouldn't care if people used it.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

This sums up the content of much of the debate on this topic:

 

[Finnishpie]

No, because I don't want my taxes to support some ice addict who has become so f'd in the head that he/she can't work/function properly anymore.

Mate, that doesn't make sense at all. Your taxes are now going to an unwinnable war - a kind of street-drug-Iraq. I'd worry about that if I were you.