List Mgmt. 2015 Draft Thread - Pre-Season & Rookie Draft Friday 11:00am AEDT

[theflea]

Can't see us taking a KPD since we've kept Astbury. We've got him and Elton in the twos.

Sure but are they any good for the future? I like Astbury but his injuries are mounting, and Elton is a long shot.

 

[theflea]

Wow poor little petal, someone got out of the wrong side of bed this morning (or perhaps you're just not getting enough calcium). My point is that our first picks since 2010 have been mostly one paced blue collar good character types. Certainly Conca, B Ellis and Vlaustin fall under that category - Lennon I admit is different and until we see more of Ellis I'll reserve judgement. Not they have been bad, far from it, although Conca does stink to high heaven. But there has been a bit of a pattern here, a sameness (which again is not the same as saying they are all crap, which you seem to be inferring that I did, which of course I haven't). It's just that we now might have the opportunity to select some true x-factor for a change with Ah Chee (which for someone that loves boy scouts as much as you seem to should be well pleased about, as he is also apparently of 'good character' too). The prospect is tantalising as apart from Shane Edwards I think we are seriously missing X-factor.

It is interesting you bring up the example of Martin our last bad boy first round pick and incidentally the last A-grader we've recruited. But not sure if I'd give Jackson too much credit for selecting a player that was lock top five picks for most, but yes he did it but geez that was quite a long while ago and I wonder if he'd do it now? And before you get your little knickers in a twist again, yes you are right even players with 'good characters' does involve some risk, as no player is guaranteed to make it, but it's still a question of degree of risk. For what it's worth I think good character should be the very last consideration though, let's just say I'd take a team of Wayne Careys if it got us a premiership (and believe me no-one dislikes Carey more than I do). Whatever, can't wait for draft to be over and done with, and I hope we get a gun. Hopefully at least we can agree on that.

Every club, let alone ours, places good character at the top of the tree for consideration. So we are no different in that aspect. The idea of having all bad boys who can play is yesteryear thinking. With all of the work and commitment that players have to have, it so easy for players to just give up or play up. This is the reason for the character aspect, and no doing so is yesteryear thinking.

 

[tunksy]

May there be many more.

But not duds

 

[Sol23]

Do we think Oliver will b there at our pick?

 

[Bishop]

Do we think Oliver will b there at our pick?

No.

 

[Stylo]

No.

I have a feeling Carlton will take him with pick 11. And I'll weep.

 

[Dr Tigris]

When you draft a kid, with very few exceptions, they need development. The two biggest issues in development are 1) the club's programs and people, and 2) the attitude and mentality of the person. You recruit to try and avoid busts and to gain skilled players. The biggest 2 issues in busts are injuries and attitude. The biggest 2 issues in improving skills are natural talent and attitude. Common thing is attitude.

Yeah people might think guys with a good attitude are vanilla, but they are more likely to add value. If you just get 0.5 players more per year to make the AFL grade that will mean 5-6 mature players on the roster of AFL ability. That is what depth means. The saying that it is the bottom 6 in the 22 on GF day that win the game is because at the top you can't hide. Other teams attack your weaknesses. Having 5/6 B grade AFL players at the bottom is a HUGE advantage. The odd flash in the pan of a bad boy that makes it is fine. But give me 5 solid players over that one flashy guy with a poor attitude every day.

 

[Bishop]

I have a feeling Carlton will take him with pick 11. And I'll weep.

Blues will take Harry McKay with their first I think. Dees/Gold Coast into Oliver too.

 

[SteveRFC]

If Oliver is there at our pick. He won't go past us.

Has Tigers written all over him

 

[TJTIGER]

Blues will take Harry McKay with their first I think. Dees/Gold Coast into Oliver too.

Gold coast I think is our best bet for his want to come home to RFC, that Sun would be my bet....

 

[Bobby Sands]

Blues will take Harry McKay with their first I think. Dees/Gold Coast into Oliver too.

Surely if he is wearing Richmond gear everywhere other clubs would have to be weary of signing him?

 

[TJTIGER]

Surely if he is wearing Richmond gear everywhere other clubs would have to be weary of signing him?

Let's hope they get the hint?

 

[Drofder]

Think Demons go Weideman or Curnow if healthy/there at pick 7.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Surely if he is wearing Richmond gear everywhere other clubs would have to be weary of signing him?

lol really?

 

[UpTheGuts]

Q for those who watch these things more closely, or who have better powers of perception:

What's a sign(s) that an underage inside mid, especially one who is more physically developed like Oliver, who's beaten up on others at TAC Cup level, will have a lower ceiling? I sense plenty go well at juniors, but fail to translate. Arnot was no star, but he's an example. Many highly regarded and honoured (at junior level) insiders go by the wayside once the others catch up (Bulldogs had a Morrish medal winner I think - keg on legs - who was picked late and then found out at senior level).

I like the urgency seen in Oliver's tape, but wasn't he playing against weaker/ diluted TAC Cup teams during the Champs, perhaps inflating his numbers?

What suggests Oliver will go to the next level and not just do well when he first hits AFL (different player, but ala Daniel Rich) due to size & physicality, then plateau or regress? It's great that he models his game on Rockliff and that Carlton rising star runner-up (legit forgot his name for this minute and because he's Carlton I'm not even going to try to look up the knob's name), but both those guys are hard at it, with so-so disposal. A worry?

Devil's advocate stuff - I'm not slotting him. Cheers in advance

 

[Hot tigers]

Q for those who watch these things more closely, or who have better powers of perception:

What's a sign(s) that an underage inside mid, especially one who is more physically developed like Oliver, who's beaten up on others at TAC Cup level, will have a lower ceiling? I sense plenty go well at juniors, but fail to translate. Arnot was no star, but he's an example. Many highly regarded and honoured (at junior level) insiders go by the wayside once the others catch up (Bulldogs had a Morrish medal winner I think - keg on legs - who was picked late and then found out at senior level).

I like the urgency seen in Oliver's tape, but wasn't he playing against weaker/ diluted TAC Cup teams during the Champs, perhaps inflating his numbers?

What suggests Oliver will go to the next level and not just do well when he first hits AFL (different player, but ala Daniel Rich) due to size & physicality, then plateau or regress? It's great that he models his game on Rockliff and that Carlton rising star runner-up (legit forgot his name for this minute and because he's Carlton I'm not even going to try to look up the knob's name), but both those guys are hard at it, with so-so disposal. A worry?

Devil's advocate stuff - I'm not slotting him. Cheers in advance

Its an interesting point, one that im not privy to at RFC or any club for that matter..

With Oliver he missed preseason with injuries and if you look at him to when he first came back to the combine he had gotten fitter, he was noticibly chubbier at the beginning of the year.

To answer your question i can only touch on something Dimma said on sen Coaches box segment that they look for AFL qualities from the VFL team and juniors and hence he then answered a question to the effect that if a player is stuck in VFL to long it can digress them (i thought of Beanie, but also thought of Macca who creamed Preseason and was given a chance and then didnt miss a game).. I cant answer what those AFL qualities are but i am sure each club has their own model..

I would suppose RFC would use this model in not only looking at VFL but also the kids..

FWIW i think if Burton is on the board we would grab him although given we have got Townsend (who i have alot of hope for) and Moore, we may not look for another inside bull, personally i would love oliver or burton but see oliver as more of an immediate need.

 

[TJTIGER]

Q for those who watch these things more closely, or who have better powers of perception:

What's a sign(s) that an underage inside mid, especially one who is more physically developed like Oliver, who's beaten up on others at TAC Cup level, will have a lower ceiling? I sense plenty go well at juniors, but fail to translate. Arnot was no star, but he's an example. Many highly regarded and honoured (at junior level) insiders go by the wayside once the others catch up (Bulldogs had a Morrish medal winner I think - keg on legs - who was picked late and then found out at senior level).

I like the urgency seen in Oliver's tape, but wasn't he playing against weaker/ diluted TAC Cup teams during the Champs, perhaps inflating his numbers?

What suggests Oliver will go to the next level and not just do well when he first hits AFL (different player, but ala Daniel Rich) due to size & physicality, then plateau or regress? It's great that he models his game on Rockliff and that Carlton rising star runner-up (legit forgot his name for this minute and because he's Carlton I'm not even going to try to look up the knob's name), but both those guys are hard at it, with so-so disposal. A worry?

Devil's advocate stuff - I'm not slotting him. Cheers in advance

Legit concerns IMHO . Vic country squad won the champs by a straight . If memory serves. Strong team first philosophy & a champion team beats a team of champions. Good fit for us... Raised with older brothers & used to competing with those older. Not sure if he's played VFL outside of the RFC ? Just seemed to have a great attitude.

No guarantees I know but seems to have many of the things necessary that improve possibility of success?

Champs testing also seem solid for a bottom ager... If our recruiting people go for him, I'll back them in. But time will tell. I think we'll get another good'en . It's our later picks (as others have said, that interest me)....

 

[TJTIGER]

Does anyone know what injury Oliver had that kept him from doing a preseason ?

 

[Toadvine]

Does anyone know what injury Oliver had that kept him from doing a preseason ?

OP.

 

[Hot tigers]

Does anyone know what injury Oliver had that kept him from doing a preseason ?

I think i read minor leg issues, maybe a calf or something, i could be wrong though

 

[CHIMP MAGNET]

Does anyone know what injury Oliver had that kept him from doing a preseason ?

gigantism and photophobia

 

[THE_GUN]

Q for those who watch these things more closely, or who have better powers of perception:

What's a sign(s) that an underage inside mid, especially one who is more physically developed like Oliver, who's beaten up on others at TAC Cup level, will have a lower ceiling? I sense plenty go well at juniors, but fail to translate. Arnot was no star, but he's an example. Many highly regarded and honoured (at junior level) insiders go by the wayside once the others catch up (Bulldogs had a Morrish medal winner I think - keg on legs - who was picked late and then found out at senior level).

I like the urgency seen in Oliver's tape, but wasn't he playing against weaker/ diluted TAC Cup teams during the Champs, perhaps inflating his numbers?

What suggests Oliver will go to the next level and not just do well when he first hits AFL (different player, but ala Daniel Rich) due to size & physicality, then plateau or regress? It's great that he models his game on Rockliff and that Carlton rising star runner-up (legit forgot his name for this minute and because he's Carlton I'm not even going to try to look up the knob's name), but both those guys are hard at it, with so-so disposal. A worry?

Devil's advocate stuff - I'm not slotting him. Cheers in advance

These are exactly my concerns about Oliver, He is big and strong and pretty much bulldozes his way through and has a little more time at that level, He wont get that luxury at the big time and does he have enough talent class to take it to the next level.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

These are exactly my concerns about Oliver, He is big and strong and pretty much bulldozes his way through and has a little more time at that level, He wont get that luxury at the big time and does he have enough talent class to take it to the next level.

He played CHF as a 16 year old in what is well known as the best vic country Comp , which is also the best non state league in Australia by a fair margin .
He is not huge or a bull , Martin is and was a bull at junior level .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I think i read minor leg issues, maybe a calf or something, i could be wrong though

He had a mild hip complaint that was initially likened to OP.

 

[Magic17]

He played CHF as a 16 year old in what is well known as the best vic country Comp , which is also the best non state league in Australia by a fair margin .
He is not huge or a bull , Martin is and was a bull at junior level .

Wow lots of discussion and high hopes for someone that won't be there at pick 12!