Welcome Harley Bennell (To make long awaited Dockers Debut!)

[E Shed]

Wasn't Harley spotted training with Walters or Hill a couple of weeks ago.

I mentioned that someone on a Footy Facebook group reported Walters and Bennell were doing sprints at Freo Oval but this was never confirmed anywhere else as far as I could tell so it was more than likely BS.

 

[salim malik]

I mentioned that someone on a Footy Facebook group reported Walters and Bennell were doing sprints at Freo Oval but this was never confirmed anywhere else as far as I could tell so it was more than likely BS.

Nah I'm going to stick with that .Will help me sleep Also great show by CW Stoneking at the Arts centre Sat night.

 

[Rob]

Lets see how he goes in his first time trial, that will tell us what he's been up to over the pre-season.

This. You can't hide anything on the track.

 

[leeloo]

I'll only believe it if Harley lines up for Peel in round one.

 

[rgauci]

The only possibility is the club asked him to return to preseason early cause his season finished earlier than our club. Similar to the way the non-finalists have already started. Perhaps he refused.

If he destroys his time trial and looks to have put in work away from the club. I'm sure all will be forgiven.

 

[Sultan]

Arrived in Perth 2 weeks after the date he was scheduled to

I swear these airlines are getting worse and worse.

and something about him not being able to pack up his house the day after Melb Cup

And then to get dudded by some dodgy removalists? Unlucky.

 

[theGav56]

Actually no it wasn't. It was whether at the time of draft whether Swallow or Bennell should have been pick #1. You turned it into something completely different to that... making it about Swallow being clearly better in retrospect and should have been pick #1 based on everything that had since happened. If we had the advantage of retrospect then the draft would be a whole different beast because spuds wouldn't be picked at all and late picks of superstars would never exist. If that were the case Freo wouldn't have drafted Fyfe @ #20 and would have never drafted a bunch of other players that never reached their potential/became injured including Morabito etc. So by your same logic Tayl0r should be more than welcome to question whether Swallow will indeed be a better choice in the long run - ie if he doesn't stays @ GC (they aren't even playing finals so haven't got much value over what they got from Bennell yet), and if Bennell helps us win a premiership or Swallow moves to and helps another team.

I haven't changed the debate at all, I have said that Swallow has shown he was the better choice. The recruiters got it right, and I am certain that would include risk factor which was attached to Harley prior to being drafted.

Your analogy with Fyfe and Morabito is poor, and would be better if it was a player who carries a risk factor such as Simpson or Jeff White. But given we are comparing Bennell to Swallow, and given the recruiters did make the correct decision there is no point in an analogy.

 

[Paracleet]

This. You can't hide anything on the track.

You'd suspect he's pretty naturally fit as a no. 2 pick midfielder / forward though. He could probably blow out his gaff for 6 months and still complete a time trial faster than Moller could (with Harley running backwards to boot). Of more relevance might be whatever he runs this year compared to his last 2 or 3 at GC.

 

[Sultan]

Harley, despite his indiscretions, has always reportedly been a hard trainer.

 

[apparentlydead]

Harley, despite his indiscretions, has always reportedly been a hard trainer.

Gee, there's 8 of you.

 

[Sultan]

Gee, there's 8 of you.

Haha, I guess it must be an often mentioned remark around here.

 

[apparentlydead]

Haha, I guess it must be an often mentioned remark around here.

You just surprised me, I was sure there was only 7

 

[UFO Tatsu]

You just surprised me, I was sure there was only 7

6.5 ... i dunno if you can count Simmofreo as a full supporter

 

[stax on the mull]

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=&SelectedPlayers=2093,2084,&Compare=Go
It's actually closer than I thought it would be between the two. Similar number of games. Similar disposals. Bennell is clearly better at kicking goals, but not as defensive (tackles).
Considering how much better I thought Bennell was, perhaps that is because he is less consistent? We remember his excellent games, but not his poor ones?

I don't think that final siren link is working, but I'd rather look at it like this

Brownlow Votes

Bennell 81 games 26 votes 5x3,4x2,3x1=26
Swallow 79 games 9 votes 1x3,2x2,2x1=9

Which is the more consistent player here?

Do we look at all the other non-polling games and say Swallow is more consistent, or do we prefer the times when Bennell takes it to the max.

I'd take the player who can be best on ground, or close too it, because the opposition has to put a lot of time in to negate him, and because of the flow on effect it brings the rest of the team.

 

[Docker79]

Swallow is definitely a talented footballer and would be more than welcomed at Freo
Bennell though is a gun and potential match winner....think almost all will agree with that. Certainly need more of these in our team.
Get his attitude right (like Walters did a few years ago...absolutely love his commitment...as I said in a previous post, I saw him in Johnno already doing their own training - this was when I visited back home in mid-Oct) and we come out a clear winner in the Bennell trade

As many have said...think Bennell was worth the risk

I don't think that final siren link is working, but I'd rather look at it like this

Brownlow Votes

Bennell 81 games 26 votes 5x3,4x2,3x1=26
Swallow 79 games 9 votes 1x3,2x2,2x1=9

Which is the more consistent player here?

Do we look at all the other non-polling games and say Swallow is more consistent, or do we prefer the times when Bennell takes it to the max.

I'd take the player who can be best on ground, or close too it, because the opposition has to put a lot of time in to negate him, and because of the flow on effect it brings the rest of the team.

 

[Lach72]

Yeah. Harley needs to buy in and he could be the best recruit we've ever had

 

[wayToGo_]

I haven't changed the debate at all, I have said that Swallow has shown he was the better choice. The recruiters got it right, and I am certain that would include risk factor which was attached to Harley prior to being drafted.

Your analogy with Fyfe and Morabito is poor, and would be better if it was a player who carries a risk factor such as Simpson or Jeff White. But given we are comparing Bennell to Swallow, and given the recruiters did make the correct decision there is no point in an analogy.

The recruiters got it right? GC had pick #1 (Swallow) and #2 (Bennell) in that draft - it doesn't matter at all to them which order they picked them in - no more or less risky. I personally think Bennell was (and still is) far more talented as a footballer than Swallow and therefore should have been pick #1. Based purely on football output (for GC) to this point that is also true. So even making this debate a retrospective one I still disagree with you.

On what basis are you evaluating Swallow having been so much more valuable to GC on? Just the fact that he is still there and Bennell isn't? He had a pretty good 2014 but his 2012, 2013 and 2015 certainly weren't amazing. The stats are pretty clear that Bennell has had greater impact on-field since being drafted. Maybe in 2016 Swallow will live up to expectations with Ablett back but that hasn't happened yet. Or maybe his form will drop further, or maybe he'll pack his bags as well at the end of 2016 and move on just like Bennell. But likewise Bennell might continue spiralling out of control and end his career in the next few months.I don't know the future just like the recruiters didn't at that draft - picking Swallow and Bennell were the right choices at the time, I just think it should have been the other way around.

 

[Taylor]

Gold Coast had to agree to take Swallow at pick #1 for him to start with them a year early.

 

[wayToGo_]

Gold Coast had to agree to take Swallow at pick #1 for him to start with them a year early.

I think they had to take him before another team picked didn't they? So could have taken him at #1, #2, or #3? It doesn't really matter - it has been somewhat of a pointless debate from the start. They are both good WA players that like others got caught up with the new franchise concessions...
2010: Swallow, Bennell; 2011: O'Meara, Coniglio; 2012: Martin, Hogan
I wonder how many will end up back at Freo or WC in the coming years? I could handle having any/all of them at Freo.

 

[theGav56]

The recruiters got it right? GC had pick #1 (Swallow) and #2 (Bennell) in that draft - it doesn't matter at all to them which order they picked them in - no more or less risky. I personally think Bennell was (and still is) far more talented as a footballer than Swallow and therefore should have been pick #1. Based purely on football output (for GC) to this point that is also true. So even making this debate a retrospective one I still disagree with you.

Well I am not making it retrospective but you are working your arse off to do that. Talent is clearly not the sole criteria in recruitment. And Swallow is clearly the better recruit for them, which justifies them taking him #1. That is what the debate centres around. It is like preferring the more talented Jakovich brother over the harder working and more professional option.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

I mentioned that someone on a Footy Facebook group reported Walters and Bennell were doing sprints at Freo Oval but this was never confirmed anywhere else as far as I could tell so it was more than likely BS.

I thought that someone said their brother was at Freo Oval and Sonny and Harley were doing some running so I agree that it was likely to be BS.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

The recruiters got it right? GC had pick #1 (Swallow) and #2 (Bennell) in that draft - it doesn't matter at all to them which order they picked them in - no more or less risky. I personally think Bennell was (and still is) far more talented as a footballer than Swallow and therefore should have been pick #1. Based purely on football output (for GC) to this point that is also true. So even making this debate a retrospective one I still disagree with you.

On what basis are you evaluating Swallow having been so much more valuable to GC on? Just the fact that he is still there and Bennell isn't? He had a pretty good 2014 but his 2012, 2013 and 2015 certainly weren't amazing. The stats are pretty clear that Bennell has had greater impact on-field since being drafted. Maybe in 2016 Swallow will live up to expectations with Ablett back but that hasn't happened yet. Or maybe his form will drop further, or maybe he'll pack his bags as well at the end of 2016 and move on just like Bennell. But likewise Bennell might continue spiralling out of control and end his career in the next few months.I don't know the future just like the recruiters didn't at that draft - picking Swallow and Bennell were the right choices at the time, I just think it should have been the other way around.

Swallow had the biggest raps on him that any player has ever had heading into a draft. He won the Larke medal as the best performed player at the 2009 under 18 champs as an underage player. It is a big accomplishment to make the state under 18's team as an underage player, let alone to not just be your teams best player, but to also be the best player of the entire competition - something that I believe is unprecedented.

In the following season - his draft year - he played just 15 games in the VFL and yet ended up finishing 4th in the Liston trophy (VFL equivalent of the Sandover) as a 17 year old. He was the clear no. 1 pick at the time, when considering the unprecedented body of work that he had produced + his exemplary attitude. Just revisionist history to say that Bennell was the better prospect at the time. Swallow was the consensus no. 1 pick at the time, and would have been picked first by every club, no doubt whatsoever. Bennell at the time, had question marks over his attitude and had been criticised for being inconsistent, two things which in time proved to be right on the money.

In the years since Bennell has certainly shown that his ceiling is higher than Swallow's, but he needs to address his propensity to having off-field brain fades, and also the rarely spoken issue of his continual calf injuries - think he has strained his calf about 6 times in the last 3 years? Swallow has had his fair share of injuries as well, suffering 2 season-ending injuries in his 5 years in the AFL, which has no doubt effected his progress. I think time has shown though, that Swallow was probably a player who's mature physique allowed him to compete with older players in 2009, and then with adults in 2010. With that being said, I don't think that it's outside the realms of possibility that he could still go on to become one of the premier inside mids in the comp, but considering the current profile of our list, another inside mid is the last thing that we need.

Bennell pretty much has it all, he can play everywhere on the ground and dominate there. He can play inside/ outside, up forward in a pocket, or off half-back, where as Swallow has really only shown that he has an A-grade game at AFL level as an inside mid, despite playing mainly at half-back in 2009 when he won the Larke medal. Bennell's leg speed, elite kicking of both feet and goal kicking is going to benefit us a lot more than anything that Swallow could offer us, as it would for any other team in the comp, we just have to hope that he can screw his head on and stop acting like a child when he is away from the club.

I would take the risk on Bennell over Swallow everyday of the week if we were offered the option of one of them. Bennell is capable of having a cameo season one year, where he is the best player in the comp, like a Cooney, and could be the deciding factor which is the difference between us winning or losing a premiership.

 

[E Shed]

Outstanding post Bucking Bronco. Says it all. The body of work Bennell has put together at the top level far exceeds anything Swallow has put up. He is an absolute match winner when on song. Swallow is workmanlike with dubious kicking. Has only shown the faintest glimmer of living up to his draft wrap.

 

[Taylor]

Swallow hasn't recovered from the ankle injury he got when he collided with Broughton. At least not progressed from that point after they threw him into defense.

 

[Sultan]

You just surprised me, I was sure there was only 7

Finally understand what you mean... just saw your other thread...