Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[BlightysCats]

Pointless continuing buddy. You're all over the place.

Whatevs.... as the kids say these days.

 

[Frappe]

'Bolton was the Box Hill head coach for two seasons and now coaches the Hawthorn midfield, and was chosen unanimously despite the credentials of former Blues coach Brett Ratten.'
It doesn't even say Brett Ratten ran for the job, it's just an assumption made by the articles writer that Hawthorn would've been considering Brett Ratten. Here's a quote from Ratten within 6/7 weeks of Bolton getting the gig in July 2014
'Asked on Sunday on Melbourne radio if he still had a burning desire to coach again at the senior level, the former Blues champion said:
“Yeah I still have,’’ Ratten said on 3AW.
“I have down the track (that desire to be a senior coach again) ... maybe the opportunity might come, but it might not either and that doesn’t bother me either.’’
You find better evidence than that HS article that he was actually in the running and I'll happily admit I was wrong until then I'm sticking with what I said.

Without joining the debate, I think you'll find Ratten was not up for consideration (by mutual consent) on account of some personal issues he was dealing with. Unfortunately came to fruition this year.

 

[AM]

Without joining the debate, I think you'll find Ratten was not up for consideration (by mutual consent) on account of some personal issues he was dealing with. Unfortunately came to fruition this year.

More than welcome to add your bit. Thing is "I think you'll find" your bit is incorrect.

Note the comment attributed to the Hawks CEO in para 4 of the excerpt from the May 28 2014 'Australian' that "all assistant coaches came under consideration"

 

[Teriyakicat]

More than welcome to add your bit. Thing is "I think you'll find" your bit is incorrect.

Note the comment attributed to the Hawks CEO in para 4 of the excerpt from the May 28 2014 'Australian' that "all assistant coaches came under consideration"

When did Ratten get the chop from the Blues, AM? Was it 4 years ago? He was directly replaced by Malthouse, wasn't he?

That seems so long ago, now.

 

[Frappe]

More than welcome to add your bit. Thing is "I think you'll find" your bit is incorrect.

Note the comment attributed to the Hawks CEO in para 4 of the excerpt from the May 28 2014 'Australian' that "all assistant coaches came under consideration"

[/QUOTE

It makes sense what the article states, however, it was mentioned in an article re Ratten's situation. However, I'm not looking it up so you'll have to take my word.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm not sure about that one myself. I know it's an invaluable experience playing finals but continually losing can build up the monkey on the back and the pressure becomes palpable. For many new faces, they would be entering with a 1-5 finals record and chances are, that would be 1-6 with the only win coming against Port Adelaide in 2013, thanks largely due to Paul Chapman's commanding performance of 20 disposals & 4 goals (fourth goal coming in the final term when Port were steaming back into the contest only down by nine).



I don't believe Fremantle were. Hawthorn definitely as they always pushed Geelong even when we were at the absolute peak of our powers but that Fremantle side of 2012 & 2013 comprised of such names as Zac Dawson, Keppler Bradley, Adam McPhee & Alex Silvagni and still made Geelong look very second rate.
Keep in mind we finished a game ahead of them in 2012 and 2½ games ahead in 2013 and got to play a home final on our home deck.

I think we stuffed up big time the week prior to the 2013 final series. I can remember having discussions with fellow Geelong supporters who believed resting players and losing a game the week before a final was thwart with danger as you don't enter September in losing fashion but Geelong knew Fremantle rested half their squad and they also heard news they were down by ten goals at halftime to St Kilda at Etihad Stadium. Meanwhile, we were playing a mini final of our own against the Brisbane Lions (lol) yep Brisbane!. We played the game like it was meaningful and the consequences of doing so were emphatic.
This is not hindsight stuff either, this is stuff which was being discussed in the lead up to round 23 by complete nobodies on an internet chat site called BigFooty.



Still doesn't make sense because if so, why did Geelong go 10-3 in the second half of the 2014 season. Wouldn't we have dropped a lot more games if we were out of gas?
Any team entering the finals on the back of a 10-3 second half record would have their tails up wouldn't they?

2015, well, after that round one game to Hawthorn, it was blatantly obvious we had fallen so far away that making finals was always going to be nothing more than a fairy tale. I for one am glad we failed as it would have been another loss and I want Richmond to remain the laughing stock of the AFL in that regard.

I watch foxfooty,listen to SEN and read the Herald sun almost daily and I have never once heard anyone talk about Geelong being poor finals performers .The only place I hear it is from a few Geelong supporters on bigfooty .The club, the media and most supporters understand that Geelong has been rebuilding for the past few years , to make the finals so often is a great effort over these rebuilding years .

If you want to talk about monkey on the back , the monkey on our back was massive in 2007 .So many in the media and neutral supporters were predicting all season we would choke come September like we had for the past 44 years .

I have a friend who works in our football department and after we lost the 2012 QF I asked him what went wrong ? his answer was "we are to dependent on Joel Selwood in the midfield" .Freemantle have Sandilands,Fyfe,Mundy,Barlow and really good tagger in Crowly that totally had Johnson's Measure .We just had Selwood , everyone else was past their best ,still developing or not A-grade .Johnson can be taken out too easily with a tag.

Can you please tell me who the last club was that rested half their best 22 the week before the finals and went on to win the premiership ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Oh c'mon seriously?!? Bomber didn't get 4 promising recruits in his 4th year rebuilding one of which is in the top three best players in the comp and another who was the vice captain of his club.
Now do you understand which part of your comment I was referring to?

6 years the club recruited Ling, Cory,Chapman and Enright .
4 years earlier the club recruited Ablett, Bartel,Johnson and Kelly.

 

[AM]

It makes sense what the article states, however, it was mentioned in an article re Ratten's situation. However, I'm not looking it up so you'll have to take my word.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Ratts had no major off field issues at that time. There are a myriad of pieces confirming that he was a contender and explaining why Bolton was preferred to the two other major candidates - Ratten and Beveridge.

 

[Frappe]

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Ratts had no major off field issues at that time. There are a myriad of pieces confirming that he was a contender and explaining why Bolton was preferred to the two other major candidates - Ratten and Beveridge.

Sorry, I have no doubt Bolton was appointed coach on his merits. However, Ratten had had some issues for a few years. I was sure I had read that this had disqualified him from stepping up should he be required.

Going by the article you referred to, he wasn't required.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Had the likes of Bartel, Hawkins, Taylor, Enright, Corey, Selwood . . . . had a week off before playing Fremantle in that final, we may very well have had Hawkins at full forward and been able to run out the final quarter.

2013 I take it you're referring to? or 2012?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

no, 2012 we were never in it from the get go but 2013 we were.

No arguments from me then, would have argued against resting in 2013....

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I know you would have. We probably had that very same argument around that time.
Can remember a few supporters being strongly against any form of rest in the lead up to the final.
St Kilda were overwhelming favourites to beat Fremantle who had Sandilands but no one else in midfield. They were never a chance to be truthful, though many felt the game would be a lot closer than what it eventually was.

See but that's where we as fans think differently to those from within the 4 walls, we on the outside would be thinking that yet Geelong F.C would have been thinking to cross the t's and dot the i's and not give F.F.C a sniff at a home final, if it were to be against a Melbourne club I doubt we'd have cared but a trip to Perth was the possible negative outcome so understandably didn't take the risk.

 

[Cataholic]

You already know the reason for this but I'll tell you anyways, winning three premierships means Geelong will continue to get a pass mark no matter how poor their record in September becomes. I suspect this will be the case for quite a long time yet because had we been in St Kilda's shoes, endless finals appearances and grand finals for 0 premierships, you honestly believe Fox Footy, SEN and the Herald Sun would be applying no pressure whatsoever on that club if their finals record was the same as ours in recent times?
Of course not! They would been getting hounded left right and center.

This comes back to my belief majority of Geelong supporters are content and more than happy to put up with mediocrity for a while now. They've experienced success and that's that for another couple of decades (or more).
It doesn't have to be that way though. Hawthorn don't rest on their laurels which is why they are regarded as the most successful VFL/AFL team of all time. They average something like a premiership every seven years since they entered the competition. Why must we put up with shit finals performances just because the coach managed to sneak out a premiership in his first season on the job coaching a team that could have literally coached itself to a flag that year?



I can't but it does appear to have been a successful way of getting through to the grand final. the issue for Fremantle was that they ran into the greatest team since Geelong on their home deck so had it been any other team, they are premiers.
Had the likes of Bartel, Hawkins, Taylor, Enright, Corey, Selwood . . . . had a week off before playing Fremantle in that final, we may very well have had Hawkins at full forward and been able to run out the final quarter.

I'm older than you by some, as are quite a few Cats supporters I'd suggest, and I resent this accusation and strongly suggest you are dead wrong on this point.

I, like many here, lived through many, many bleak years that you did not, and to suggest we're content with mediocrity, after the briefest of success, is insulting to our passion as supporters.

We suffered a long time, but stuck by the club through thick and thin, and never wavered in our loyalty.

Younger supporters like yourself may be prone to acceptng success as a 'given', but believe me, those of us who've been around a while treasure success like a desert wanderer craves a drop of water.

Don't paint everyone with the same brush.

 

[AM]

Sorry, I have no doubt Bolton was appointed coach on his merits. However, Ratten had had some issues for a few years. I was sure I had read that this had disqualified him from stepping up should he be required.

Going by the article you referred to, he wasn't required.

I'm not questioning your belief just that the evidence isn't there to support that belief. However there is evidence that 'all' assistant coaches were considered from none other than the Hawks CEO. That included Ratts and Beveridge - the other two serious contenders. And I have no idea how you could conclude from the article "he wasn't required".

Anyway, we are getting away from a poster who postulated that a coach with a home and way win record of around 50% and a finals win record of around 25% (Ratten) or a coach with no head coaching experience whatsoever and who has been passed over on a number of occasions for such a role (Dew) should replace an experienced coached with a win record of 70 + %. Think the survey results in this thread pretty much give us the answer re who should be our head coach for the time being.

 

[Frappe]

I'm not questioning your belief just that the evidence isn't there to support that belief. However there is evidence that 'all' assistant coaches were considered from none other than the Hawks CEO. That included Ratts and Beveridge - the other two serious contenders. And I have no idea how you could conclude from the article "he wasn't required".

Anyway, we are getting away from a poster who postulated that a coach with a home and way win record of around 50% and a finals win record of around 25% (Ratten) or a coach with no head coaching experience whatsoever and who has been passed over on a number of occasions for such a role (Dew) should replace an experienced coached with a win record of 70 + %. Think the survey results in this thread pretty much give us the answer re who should be our head coach for the time being.

He wasn't required for the Main Coach role because they preferred Bolton for the reasons in your article. If they had decided he was the one they wanted then he had some serious choices to make because of his personal situation.

 

[JUBJUB]

May as well lock this thread now that it looks like James Rahilly is our coach

 

[Frappe]

May as well lock this thread now that it looks like James Rahilly is our coach

Makes sense as to why we got little coverage.

 

[Lana]

May as well lock this thread now that it looks like James Rahilly is our coach

We have a shadow match committee that rules the club. It is now evident that Scott is just a patsy. Getting rid of him won't be enough to fix the club nothing less than replacing the entire staff and board will clear this infestation, except Scott... he has clearly done nothing wrong.

 

[BlightysCats]

This comes back to my belief majority of Geelong supporters are content and more than happy to put up with mediocrity for a while now. They've experienced success and that's that for another couple of decades (or more).

You're completely right! And if anyone dares to point out areas we need drastic improvement in or criticise the club at all they're dismissed as being negative and not a 'real' or 'true' supporter. I want Geelong to ruthlessly dominate the comp again not be some nice little country club that becomes every opposition supporters second favourite team again because we drift around inoffensively losing finals and finishing mid table for the next 20 years.

 

[JUBJUB]

You're completely right! And if anyone dares to point out areas we need drastic improvement in or criticise the club at all they're dismissed as being negative and not a 'real' or 'true' supporter.

 

[BlightysCats]

I'm disappointed JUBJUB I would've thought by now you would've had at least three likes for that cheap gag, where are you NSFB, 10lana, and Teriyakicat?

 

[David the Cat]

You're completely right! And if anyone dares to point out areas we need drastic improvement in or criticise the club at all they're dismissed as being negative and not a 'real' or 'true' supporter. I want Geelong to ruthlessly dominate the comp again not be some nice little country club that becomes every opposition supporters second favourite team again because we drift around inoffensively losing finals and finishing mid table for the next 20 years.

Well of course you're both entitled to that opinion....and making broad statements about what the majority of Geelong supporters feel. ITs quite presumptuous of both of you, but go right ahead.

Personally. I think its a load of tripe.

 

[hbk_aus]

Well of course you're both entitled to that opinion....and making broad statements about what the majority of Geelong supporters feel. ITs quite presumptuous of both of you, but go right ahead.

Personally. I think its a load of tripe.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Cataholic]

You're completely right! And if anyone dares to point out areas we need drastic improvement in or criticise the club at all they're dismissed as being negative and not a 'real' or 'true' supporter. I want Geelong to ruthlessly dominate the comp again not be some nice little country club that becomes every opposition supporters second favourite team again because we drift around inoffensively losing finals and finishing mid table for the next 20 years.

We all want the same outcome BC, but as I replied to Bobby, I strongly resent the accusation that the 'majority' of supporters are now content with mediocrity.

That insults our passion for the GFC, and to make such a sweeping generalisation and assumption about the passion held by other supporters is naive, and arrogant.

There will always be differences of opinion as to what should be done, if anything, how it's done, when, and its scope. From where I sit most discussions are robust, but respectful.

Unfortunately, there are a minority that focus on playing the man and not the ball. It happens everywhere, but hopefully you can see that your opinions are considered by most as equally valid to the discussion as anyone else's, rather than feeling victimised.

 

[AM]

He wasn't required for the Main Coach role because they preferred Bolton for the reasons in your article. If they had decided he was the one they wanted then he had some serious choices to make because of his personal situation.

I guess the could apply to anyone.