Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Soapy V]

Thomas almost forgot he is on our list too

im trying to forget he's on our list

 

[Coona Blues]

What numbers would you like to see on the new players?

Available numbers
2, 5, 10, 11, 13, 19, 20, 23, 28, 30, 34, 37, 44+

2 Weitering
5 Cunningham (Idolised Juddy)
10 McKay
11 Curnow
13 Thomas (retro form)
19 Kerridge
20 Silvagni (Sergio wore it first season)
23 Wright
28 Sumner (GWS No.)
30 Plowman (GWS No.)
34 Gorringe
37 Phillips
39 Lamb
44 Korcheck
45 Glass-McCasker
46 Gallucci (smallest bloke on list)

 

[Stamos]

McKay will be no chance to become a player if we give him 10. Give 10 to Liam Jones to defeat the curse

 

[Love the Drake]

Weitering 11 (Doull greatest backman ever)
Curnow 36 (Maclure & next to his brother)
Kerridge 2

 

[deathanxiety]

I'm really looking forward to next year's trade period! Big things still to happen! Can't wait for footy to start again too.

 

[TheCoach16]

#5 should be put away (retired) for a couple of years, wouldn't like to see anyone wearing it for a while... Maybe Cripps if he wants it, but that's about it.

 

[Soapy V]

I'm really looking forward to next year's trade period! Big things still to happen! Can't wait for footy to start again too.

could see us getting rid of another 10 or so players. walker simpson armfield jones foster gowers wood tutt dick dvr & thomas must all be under pressure because of age, injury or questions over ability to cut it at afl level. maybe gibbs everitt casboult as possible trade options

 

[LordLucifer]

The playing list for 2016 is a mere shadow of what it looked like in 2015 and for good reason too.

Malthouse and his cronies set about revising the list from the one he originally inherited, there were significant changes over two successive seasons. The problem for us was that a high proportion of the players they brought in were no better or in some cases, worse than the ones they replaced.

When Steve Silvagni arrived at the club earlier this year, he did an indepth review on each player and his findings were quite scathing. His dossier to the new administration on the matter was the catalyst for a grand plan being drawn up and implemented, finishing on the bottom completely validated the issue.

Any player who was considered unskilled, poor in attitude or plainly not up to what they considered to be the minimum standard was either traded out or delisted. Many people on this forum (and other forums around the 'net) didn't believe that a club could make more than 8-10 changes in one season. The new Bolton-Silvagni management team made that theory redundant and scared the bejesus out of many a forum goer as well as the players themselves.

There is nothing more to say about the recent departees, they are ancient history now, this is the dawning of a new era at Princes Park.

The 2015 trade periods & drafts for Carlton have been the most thorough & calculated ever seen in the club's long history. The end result is 15 new players at the club and a renewed sense of anticipation & excitement.

Whilst we did focus on some much-needed key position players (Weitering, McKay and Glass-McCasker to a lesser extent), the midfield wasn't completely neglected. Mature-age Wright, Kerridge & longer-term prospect Cunningham are slated for that area. Even though Charlie Curnow has mainly been played across half-forward as a junior, I believe he will end up being groomed as midfielder to play alongside Cripps in the clinches.

For the 2016 trade & draft period, I'm expecting the focus to be on securing 3-4 quality mids plus another couple of quality key position players.

The reason for that is that there are a number of players who appear to be in the "Danger Zone" now given that the club has had no hesitation this year in being ruthless and moving on anyone deemed superfluous, unwilling to lift or out of contract.

Armfield, Smith, Everitt, Rainbow, Simpson, Foster, Rowe, Dick, Tutt, Whiley, Sheehan, Jones, Wood and even Casboult or Gibbs will come under some scrutiny at the end of 2016. There is every chance that a high number of that lot will be traded or delisted (in Simpson's case, he may decide to retire).

It also appears that Silvagni & Bolton want to remove most of the players that came to the club through Hughes & Rogers so in their pursuit of success, anyone not up to the task will be moved on.

It is going to be an exciting 12-months but there will be days that will infuriate and anger, that is the nature of the beast with young players and a new coach.

It's not the actual destination that should give you the pleasure, it's the long journey that is so fulfilling.

 

[Cringle]

#5 needs to be rested for a year.

Give it to the midfielder we pick up with our first round pick next year.

 

[TheCoach16]

The playing list for 2016 is a mere shadow of what it looked like in 2015 and for good reason too.

Malthouse and his cronies set about revising the list from the one he originally inherited, there were significant changes over two successive seasons. The problem for us was that a high proportion of the players they brought in were no better or in some cases, worse than the ones they replaced.

When Steve Silvagni arrived at the club earlier this year, he did an indepth review on each player and his findings were quite scathing. His dossier to the new administration on the matter was the catalyst for a grand plan being drawn up and implemented, finishing on the bottom completely validated the issue.

Any player who was considered unskilled, poor in attitude or plainly not up to what they considered to be the minimum standard was either traded out or delisted. Many people on this forum (and other forums around the 'net) didn't believe that a club could make more than 8-10 changes in one season. The new Bolton-Silvagni management team made that theory redundant and scared the bejesus out of many a forum goer as well as the players themselves.

There is nothing more to say about the recent departees, they are ancient history now, this is the dawning of a new era at Princes Park.

The 2015 trade periods & drafts for Carlton have been the most thorough & calculated ever seen in the club's long history. The end result is 15 new players at the club and a renewed sense of anticipation & excitement.

Whilst we did focus on some much-needed key position players (Weitering, McKay and Glass-McCasker to a lesser extent), the midfield wasn't completely neglected. Mature-age Wright, Kerridge & longer-term prospect Cunningham are slated for that area. Even though Charlie Curnow has mainly been played across half-forward as a junior, I believe he will end up being groomed as midfielder to play alongside Cripps in the clinches.

For the 2016 trade & draft period, I'm expecting the focus to be on securing 3-4 quality mids plus another couple of quality key position players.

The reason for that is that there are a number of players who appear to be in the "Danger Zone" now given that the club has had no hesitation this year in being ruthless and moving on anyone deemed superfluous, unwilling to lift or out of contract.

Armfield, Smith, Everitt, Rainbow, Simpson, Foster, Rowe, Dick, Tutt, Whiley, Sheehan, Jones, Wood and even Casboult or Gibbs will come under some scrutiny at the end of 2016. There is every chance that a high number of that lot will be traded or delisted (in Simpson's case, he may decide to retire).

It also appears that Silvagni & Bolton want to remove most of the players that came to the club through Hughes & Rogers so in their pursuit of success, anyone not up to the task will be moved on.

It is going to be an exciting 12-months but there will be days that will infuriate and anger, that is the nature of the beast with young players and a new coach.

It's not the actual destination that should give you the pleasure, it's the long journey that is so fulfilling.

As usual, you make a lot of sense, cold and calculating, but a lot of sense...
But given what's already taken place and what you're predicting is still to come, can't we afford to and benefit from, at least keeping Gibbs, Casboult and Everitt?
They are three players who add value to our side, regardless of what position we find ourselves in.
I'm merely suggesting that given the turn over of players thus far and the projected turn over to come, can't those three play out their careers with Carlton and help us develop and achieve what we want.
You say it's about the journey, wouldn't they make that journey a more "comfortable" one?
You also made reference to the fact that in the recent past we tried to replenish the list with players not as good or worse than their predecessors. It would take three very very good players to replace those three.

 

[Wickzki]

I agree somewhat with Sheik. Players who are deemed to be of long term value to the club shall be retained unless the assets that can be acquired through their departure are deemed to be worth more. For the likes of Everitt and Casboult I fear that their value to the club is worth more than what they would gain in trade (I think that's why we circulated Casboult on the market this year to test the waters). Fear may be too strong a word as I'm a big fan of both but I simply do not foresee either being a part of the 22 when we are playing for keeps. Gibbs, on the other hand, could be a real coup in trading. Yes, he's worth a tremendous amount to the club but he's the one jewel that we have that could be tradeable and ultimately gain us more long term than what he will be able to add at that point. It's a dangerous trade because there's tremendous risk involved. It can take us a lot closer but it may not gain us sure things (risk over reward). It would take some cold calculating hard work by SOS and co and I suggest the fan base will be divided if he is traded.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

What numbers would you like to see on the new players?

Available numbers
2, 5, 10, 11, 13, 19, 20, 23, 28, 30, 34, 37, 44+

2. Jacob Weitering
5. Jack Silvagni
10. Charlie Curnow
11. Harry McKay
13. Liam Sumner
20. David Cuningham
23. Daniel Gorringe
28. Matthew Wright
30. Lachie Plowman
34. Sam Kerridge
37. Jesse Glass-McCasker
45. Jed Lamb
46. Andrew Phillips
47. Andrew Gallucci
48. Matt Korcheck

44 left untouched for the year.

 

[Funk]

Comparing to 2015, we have lost half a season of Chris Judd, ordinary non committed seasons from Yarran, Henderson and Menzel, an okay season by Carrazzo, and a great season by Bell.

We may get back half a season from Gibbs, Kreuzer and a full season from Thomas. Plus almost a full season from Graham. Then we look at the players coming in and what they might achieve. Then we look at a cohesive, disciplined team under the tutelage of an impressive new coach.

Will we, and should we be worse in 2016?

Nothing could be worse than last season.

So by definition 2016 will be better!

 

[fnm_just a man]

#5 needs to be rested for a year.

Give it to the midfielder we pick up with our first round pick next year.

Petrevski-Seton, hopefully!!

 

[LordLucifer]

As usual, you make a lot of sense, cold and calculating, but a lot of sense...
But given what's already taken place and what you're predicting is still to come, can't we afford to and benefit from, at least keeping Gibbs, Casboult and Everitt?
They are three players who add value to our side, regardless of what position we find ourselves in.
I'm merely suggesting that given the turn over of players thus far and the projected turn over to come, can't those three play out their careers with Carlton and help us develop and achieve what we want.
You say it's about the journey, wouldn't they make that journey a more "comfortable" one?
You also made reference to the fact that in the recent past we tried to replenish the list with players not as good or worse than their predecessors. It would take three very very good players to replace those three.

In answer to you and Wiz who has the post below yours, I'm not saying those three will categorically be traded, I just believe they will be considered and/or "talked about" if another club comes calling.

If the scuttlebutt over the past two years is true, both Casboult & Everitt either had nibbles or were offered around, no deal was done as we know but if that was the case, you'd have to assume that if the right deal was offered, the club would more than likely go through with it.

Going into 2017, Gibbs will be 28yo and should (no guarentees) be at the height of his footballing career. For a team on the edge of a premiership assault, he would be a handy addition to plug a gaping deficiency or simply stockpile on class ball-deliverers. There is very little likelihood of him playing in a premiership with us so if it was a Melbourne-based club that wants him, he may be well open to it as well.

If we use this year as the blueprint, Silvagni will again want to trade in to the pointy end of the draft (don't forget, he had the same luxury at GWS), we may not have too many more commodities at the club capable of commanding that sort of return, this is why Gibbs and Casboult may be on the market. The moons have to align and the price has to be right but no-one can say it is out of the question.

 

[TheCoach16]

In answer to you and Wiz who has the post below yours, I'm not saying those three will categorically be traded, I just believe they will be considered and/or "talked about" if another club comes calling.

If the scuttlebutt over the past two years is true, both Casboult & Everitt either had nibbles or were offered around, no deal was done as we know but if that was the case, you'd have to assume that if the right deal was offered, the club would more than likely go through with it.

Going into 2017, Gibbs will be 28yo and should (no guarentees) be at the height of his footballing career. For a team on the edge of a premiership assault, he would be a handy addition to plug a gaping deficiency or simply stockpile on class ball-deliverers. There is very little likelihood of him playing in a premiership with us so if it was a Melbourne-based club that wants him, he may be well open to it as well.

If we use this year as the blueprint, Silvagni will again want to trade in to the pointy end of the draft (don't forget, he had the same luxury at GWS), we may not have too many more commodities at the club capable of commanding that sort of return, this is why Gibbs and Casboult may be on the market. The moons have to align and the price has to be right but no-one can say it is out of the question.

Unfortunately, I have neither a measured response, nor a compelling argument to back up my position on this.
This is purely a "heart" decision, but if it were up to me, those three would be off limits, and I'd go as far as to say Gibbs especially is "untouchable"...
However I understand the position the club is in and the direction they're taking, so I'll put my faith in them and take comfort in the old adage, "players come and go, the club is there forever"
I just hope "sentiment" still has some small place in footy.

 

[thylacine60]

Unfortunately, I have neither a measured response, nor a compelling argument to back up my position on this.
This is purely a "heart" decision, but if it were up to me, those three would be off limits, and I'd go as far as to say Gibbs especially is "untouchable"...
However I understand the position the club is in and the direction they're taking, so I'll put my faith in them and take comfort in the old adage, "players come and go, the club is there forever"
I just hope "sentiment" still has some small place in footy.

 

[mediumsizered]

Unfortunately, I have neither a measured response, nor a compelling argument to back up my position on this.
This is purely a "heart" decision, but if it were up to me, those three would be off limits, and I'd go as far as to say Gibbs especially is "untouchable"...
However I understand the position the club is in and the direction they're taking, so I'll put my faith in them and take comfort in the old adage, "players come and go, the club is there forever"
I just hope "sentiment" still has some small place in footy.

Agree with you on Gibbs.

From the very beginning he has made it clear he wants to be a one club player, even when some Crows supporters were adamant he would want to return to SA. This sort of loyalty should be rewarded. To do otherwise is not a good look for incoming players, nor for team morale.

 

[TheCoach16]

Agree with you on Gibbs.

From the very beginning he has made it clear he wants to be a one club player, even when some Crows supporters were adamant he would want to return to SA. This sort of loyalty should be rewarded. To do otherwise is not a good look for incoming players, nor for team morale.

Thank you for supplying the measured response and compelling argument that I was unable to provide...

 

[LordLucifer]

Unfortunately, I have neither a measured response, nor a compelling argument to back up my position on this.
This is purely a "heart" decision, but if it were up to me, those three would be off limits, and I'd go as far as to say Gibbs especially is "untouchable"...
However I understand the position the club is in and the direction they're taking, so I'll put my faith in them and take comfort in the old adage, "players come and go, the club is there forever"
I just hope "sentiment" still has some small place in footy.

Very fair comment, certainly written from the "heart" too.

In bygone eras, being a one-club player was the norm, it wasn't as common to see a player change clubs regularly. Unfortunately, in this modern era, loyalty and sentiment seem to have been thrown out the door especially when the size of the contracts are getting bigger and bigger .

With the players wanting the introduction of Free Agency, clubs do not have as strong a position as they once did when it comes to dealing with players and there is definitely an increase in player movement from year to year. I actually think the AFL encourage it as it provides publicity & additional media coverage.

Who would of thought that St.Kilda would of lost Dal Santo, Goddard & McEvoy over the past couple of seasons ??

Clubs moving on players purely as a tactical leverage is becoming more the norm as they need onfield success as quickly as possible. Attracting sponsorship dollars, membership numbers & better television coverage all play a part in it these days.

It's a sad situation but that is the reality of what is now a totally professional sport with huge money attached.

 

[TheCoach16]

Can I just ask, if someone quotes your post only and doesn't comment on it, does that mean they agree with you or think you're an idiot?

 

[LordLucifer]

Can I just ask, if someone quotes your post only and doesn't comment on it, does that mean they agree with you or think you're an idiot?

Thy quoted it and bolded part of it, it means he agrees with the bolded part.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Can I just ask, if someone quotes your post only and doesn't comment on it, does that mean they agree with you or think you're an idiot?

Check to see if they bolded a line in your post. This usually means they agree with you unless they say otherwise.

 

[thylacine60]

Actually, meant to give one of these - . My fault.

 

[LordLucifer]

#5 needs to be rested for a year.

Give it to the midfielder we pick up with our first round pick next year.

Give it to the next player in line who has been recruited, if it happens to be a rookie then so be it.

Resting jumpers is just too lame and yankee for my liking.