2016 US Presidential Election - Trump vs Clinton? - Part 1

[coerced]

It might be that the Kochs have limits. The presidency isn't a toy, there are real and lasting consequences of putting someone completely unsuitable for the role into it. They are still business men and if Trump had his way there's a very high chance of economic catastrophe that would impact them.

What economic catastrophe would result?

Let's face it, the two things Trump differs on from the modern Republican Party are economic protectionism and regime change.

The Kochs are free market ideologues. They have had no problems with other Republicans stoking xenophobia and social conservatism. Their issue with Trump is fundamentally one of whatever will keep their wealth and power in tact.

 

[swingdog]

Or that they think he's going to lose - I thought I'd read that the Kochs were putting their money into protecting down-ticket Republicans.

 

[Cooldude]

If anyone believe that Trump has any economical plan other than to put more and more money into his own pockets when he's in the white house, they'd be delusional

Convention bounce for Clinton is yuuuuge, and the way Trump is going after Gold star families and his crowd booing military mums,they're gonna alienate more and more of those non-crazy conservatives pretty darn soon

 

[Mofra]

The Kochs are free market ideologues. They have had no problems with other Republicans stoking xenophobia and social conservatism. Their issue with Trump is fundamentally one of whatever will keep their wealth and power in tact.

Trump's comments relating to the TPP would surely worry more than a few powerbrokers in the US, the Koch brothers alone are rumoured to have spent over US$40m on pro-TPP lobbying.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

What economic catastrophe would result?

Let's face it, the two things Trump differs on from the modern Republican Party are economic protectionism and regime change.

The Kochs are free market ideologues. They have had no problems with other Republicans stoking xenophobia and social conservatism. Their issue with Trump is fundamentally one of whatever will keep their wealth and power in tact.

You look to deport all illegal immigrants and institute protectionism, the economy will tank, and tank bad. There's no two ways about it.

Coupled with that, he's a loose cannon who is unstable, why would any sane business person want that. Businesses can adapt to different environments over time, what they do no respond well to is an uncertain environment with dramatic changes.

 

[Cooldude]

What happened to all those plans that Trump is gonna sway to the middle once he won the nomination and win the moderate crowd? Oh right that's complete bullshit coz he's getting crazier and crazier as we speak

The guy just flat out has a mental illness

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

emails blah blah blah...show me Trump's tax records! This is the guy who's bragging about being with $10bn and is seemingly in debt at the same time due to his campaign, wtf?

Uncovering corruption is slightly more important than uncovering the fact that Drumpf is not as rich as he says.

 

[Elroo]

Its hard when your nominee got suck blocked by her husbands mistress

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Whats sucked blocked? Is this some redneck liw brow term?

 

[Elroo]

Uncovering corruption is slightly more important than uncovering the fact that Drumpf is not as rich as he says.

Providing his tax returns like every other previous nominee has done including Hillary who provided her tax returns helps to identify potential corruption.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Providing his tax returns like every other previous nominee has done including Hillary who provided her tax returns helps to identify potential corruption.

the often spouted reason, i'd argue its utter bullshit considering the bushes corruption was never identified or exposed via publicly releasing a tax return, back in the 70's and 80's it may have exposed dodgy dealings, but not today. However in this case it would identify that trump is lying about his personal wealth.

 

[coerced]

Or that they think he's going to lose - I thought I'd read that the Kochs were putting their money into protecting down-ticket Republicans.

Much like Apple's down ticket support of Republican candidates who hold the same regressive social views as the remainder of the Republican Party (which Apple openly opposes a progressive company) but support free trade and the cozy tax arrangements that Apple enjoys.

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

What happened to all those plans that Trump is gonna sway to the middle once he won the nomination and win the moderate crowd? Oh right that's complete bullshit coz he's getting crazier and crazier as we speak

The guy just flat out has a mental illness

It actually shows moral fortitude that a candidate will not change his/her positions (as much as I disagree with them) to cater to different demographics at different stages of an election process.

Hitlery on the other hand will run to he right and say whatever needs to be said simply to harvest as many motes as possible.

 

[Elroo]

the often spouted reason, i'd argue its utter bullshit considering the bushes corruption was never identified or exposed via publicly releasing a tax return, back in the 70's and 80's it may have exposed dodgy dealings, but not today. However in this case it would identify that trump is lying about his personal wealth.

It will provide information on multiple items and either validate Trumps comments or verify him as a liar.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/worl...heres-why-you-should-too-20160512-gou36g.html

Heavily redacted
The tax returns my lawyers and I reviewed were sealed, and a court order prevents me from speaking or writing about the specifics of what I saw. I can say that Trump routinely delayed - for months on end - producing those documents, and when they finally arrived they were so heavily redacted that they looked like crossword puzzles. The litigation ran on for five years, and during that time we had to petition the court to compel Trump to hand over unredacted versions of the tax returns - which he ultimately did.

So despite Trump's statements to the contrary, here are some general questions that a full release of at least several years of his tax returns might usefully answer:

1. Income: Trump has made the size of his fortune a centrepiece of his presidential campaign, implying that it's a measure of his success as a businessman. He has also correctly noted that the income shown on his tax returns isn't a reflection of his total wealth. Even so, income is a basis for assessing some of the foundations of any individual's wealth -- and would certainly reflect the financial wherewithal of the businesses in which Trump is involved. After Fortune's Shawn Tully dug into Trump's financial disclosures with the Federal Election Commission and an accompanying personal balance sheet his campaign released, he noted in March that Trump "appears to have overstated his income, by a lot, which could be the reason he has so far tried to avoid releasing his returns." Tully said that Trump apparently boosted his income in the documents by conflating his various businesses' revenue with his personal income. Trump didn't respond to Tully's assessment, but he could clear up all of that by releasing his tax returns.
2. Business activities: Trump has long claimed that his company, the Trump Organization, employs thousands of people. He has also criticised Fortune 500 companies for operating businesses overseas at the expense of jobs for US workers. Trump's returns would show how active he and his businesses are globally - and would help substantiate the actual size and scope of his operation.
3. Charitable giving: Trump has said that he's a generous benefactor to a variety of causes - especially war veterans - even though it's been hard to find concrete evidence to support the assertion. Other examples of major philanthropic largess from Trump have also been elusive. Trump could release his tax returns and put the matter to rest.
4. Tax planning: There's been global attention focused on the issue of how politicians and the wealthy use tax havens and shell companies to possibly hide parts of their fortunes from authorities. If released, Trump's returns would make clear whether he used such vehicles.
5. Transparency and accountability:Trump is seeking the most powerful office in the world. Some of the potential conflicts of interest or financial pressures that may arise if he reaches the White House would get an early airing in a release of his tax returns.

For the past 40 years, presidential candidates have released their returns. Trump, of course, has portrayed himself as the un-candidate, the guy who bucks convention. But disclosing tax returns is a valuable political tradition that's well worth preserving.

 

[Cooldude]

It actually shows moral fortitude that a candidate will not change his/her positions (as much as I disagree with them) to cater to different demographics at different stages of an election process.

Hitlery on the other hand will run to he right and say whatever needs to be said simply to harvest as many motes as possible.

Erm no, Trump's flipped flopped more times than flipper. The continual effort to be immoral dishonest and hateful is not in any way "moral fortitude"

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Providing his tax returns like every other previous nominee has done including Hillary who provided her tax returns helps to identify potential corruption.

Pretty sure the IRS would disclose any breaches.

 

[Elroo]

Pretty sure the IRS would disclose any breaches.

Breaches of what?

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Erm no, Trump's flipped flopped more times than flipper. The continual effort to be immoral dishonest and hateful is not in any way "moral fortitude"

What happened to all those plans that Trump is gonna sway to the middle once he won the nomination and win the moderate crowd?

Correct.

There will be no move to the center because Trump is an authoritarian who actually believes what he says. Grudging respect in this regard. Again, I don't agree with those positions.

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Breaches of what?

The tax code.

 

[Cooldude]

Trump is an authoritarian who actually believes what he says. Grudging respect in this regard.

No grudging respect whatsoever, it actually makes him worse

If a guy is an unashamed strong arm tyrant it makes him a terrible person

 

[little graham]

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

What economic catastrophe would result?

Let's face it, the two things Trump differs on from the modern Republican Party are economic protectionism and regime change.

The Kochs are free market ideologues. They have had no problems with other Republicans stoking xenophobia and social conservatism. Their issue with Trump is fundamentally one of whatever will keep their wealth and power in tact.

I agree the Kochs wouldn't like him because of his economics. Not only the protectionism, intervention, and lack of any detail whatsoever, but obviously the US could be treated like Apartheid-era Sth Africa if they actually started banning and registering Muslims while removing the free press, etc.

But what are you referring to re: "regime change"? Trump claims he will defeat ISIS 'and so fast'. Every now and again he hints at something like withdrawing their foreign military from regions (it's the only proposal he has that would save a lot of money, and maybe the spare soldiers will man his 'wall'), but he also says he will make the military really big and good or whatever ridiculously generalistic statement it was.

 

[Elroo]

The tax code.

Making his tax returns public will provide significantly more information than Trump compliance with the US tax system.

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

No grudging respect whatsoever, it actually makes him worse

If a guy is an unashamed strong arm tyrant it makes him a terrible person

Yes, it makes his a terrible person but changing your platform message merely to achieve a political end caries its own moral dilemma.

 

[coerced]

I agree the Kochs wouldn't like him because of his economics. Not only the protectionism, intervention, and lack of any detail whatsoever, but obviously the US could be treated like Apartheid-era Sth Africa if they actually started banning and registering Muslims while removing the free press, etc.

How does the latter differ from the broader Republican platform?

But what are you referring to re: "regime change"? Trump claims he will defeat ISIS 'and so fast'. Every now and again he hints at something like withdrawing their foreign military from regions (it's the only proposal he has that would save a lot of money, and maybe the spare soldiers will man his 'wall'), but he also says he will make the military really big and good or whatever ridiculously generalistic statement it was.

You don't read very widely do you Ratts?

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

You don't read very widely do you Ratts?

Yeah I do, which is why I've noted the contradictions, so why don't you explain yourself? He's backing Russia in Syria and saying they shouldn't 'regime change', yet he's also said (wrongly) that by pulling the US out of Saudi Arabia the place would collapse.

They missed:
Economists: Trump
Most of the world's business/industry/science leaders: Trump
Most of the world's political leaders: Trump
Putin: Clinton