2016 US Presidential Election - Trump vs Clinton? - Part 1

[coerced]

Yeah I do, which is why I've noted the contradictions, so why don't you explain yourself?

Have you looked into what Hillary has planned for Syria? Or what her protege, widely tipped for Sec. State, engineered in Ukriane?

The build up to the Hillary presidency rhymes a lot with PNAC.

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Making his tax returns public will provide significantly more information than Trump compliance with the US tax system.

OK, that's a different argument.

 

[Cooldude]

Yes, it makes his a terrible person but changing your platform message merely to achieve a political end caries it's own moral dilemma.

Trump's doing it with his wall, his Muslim ban, his bragging about his "relationship" with Putin, etc etc, he is the exact same

Hillary's terrible but Trump is the only one who can make her look good

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Trump's doing it with his wall, his Muslim ban, his bragging about his "relationship" with Putin, etc etc, he is the exact same

Hillary's terrible but Trump is the only one who can make her look good

Now you're arguing against your original position. Hilarious.

 

[james Dean]

So those polls. Wowie.

Trump has made up ground in Pennsylvania and Michigan. If Clinton loses those states then she is ****ed. She has improved in Ohio however so it's not all bad news for her. Florida and Iowa remain tough ones.

Her best chance of pulling a red state is Arizona, however recent polling doesn't look promising for her there.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Have you looked into what Hillary has planned for Syria? Or what her protege, widely tipped for Sec. State, engineered in Ukriane?

The build up to the Hillary presidency rhymes a lot with PNAC.

Don't deflect. I asked why you thought Trump was different from other Republicans re: 'regime change'? He's backing Russia in Syria and saying they shouldn't 'regime change', yet he's also said (wrongly) that by pulling the US out of Saudi Arabia the place would collapse, and of course has made other brazen calls about how big, fast and great he would make the military.

 

[Arthur Dunger]

Hillary looks more like someone who should be running her own cooking show rather than the US.

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Hillary looks more like someone who should be running her own cooking show rather than the US.

More sexism please.

Yes, Trump is the one one who looks presidential .

 

[Arthur Dunger]

More sexism please.

Yes, Trump is the one one who looks presidential .

Not sexism at all, when I look at her she reminds me of chefs like Martha Stewart and Maggie Beer rather than a world leader.
Why is that sexist?

 

[coerced]

Don't deflect. I asked why you thought Trump was different from other Republicans re: 'regime change'? He's backing Russia in Syria and saying they shouldn't 'regime change', yet he's also said (wrongly) that by pulling the US out of Saudi Arabia the place would collapse, and of course has made other brazen calls about how big, fast and great he would make the military.

I don't think you understand what 'regime change' means.

 

[Badesumofu]

Not sexism at all, when I look at her she reminds me of chefs like Martha Stewart and Maggie Beer rather than a world leader.
Why is that sexist?

You proclaim to be both a Trump fan and a Gayle fan. What a yuuuuge surprise that you're also blind to your own blatant sexism.

 

[Cooldude]

Now you're arguing against your original position. Hilarious.

Erm do you even know what my original position was?

You said Trump deserves respect for being an unshame campaigner (when that's wrong), then claims he holds his positions well (when he has changed positions just as much), you're doing a Trump I feel

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Not sexism at all, when I look at her she reminds me of chefs like Martha Stewart and Maggie Beer rather than a world leader.
Why is that sexist?

If that needs to be explained then there's not much I can do for you.

I'm no fan of hers yet I wouldn't say she doesn't look presidential.

 

[Mofra]

Trump has made up ground in Pennsylvania and Michigan. If Clinton loses those states then she is stuffed. She has improved in Ohio however so it's not all bad news for her. Florida and Iowa remain tough ones.

Her best chance of pulling a red state is Arizona, however recent polling doesn't look promising for her there.

Interesting, as some pollsters (and Michael Moore) are expecting Trump to take out most if not all of the rustbelt states as he effectively taps into the anger felt by the "ordinary voter" there.
Not sure Clinton's platform has the capacity to counter the "I've been left behind" sentiment in some parts of voting America.

 

[coerced]

Interesting, as some pollsters (and Michael Moore) are expecting Trump to take out most if not all of the rustbelt states as he effectively taps into the anger felt by the "ordinary voter" there.
Not sure Clinton's platform has the capacity to counter the "I've been left behind" sentiment in some parts of voting America.

I don't think the Democrats as they exist right now have much to offer them:

I know Hillary Clinton’s economic team fairly well, and I’m very impressed by them. They really are top-notch economists and economic policy thinkers. They don’t have anything for a 55-year-old laid-off factory worker in Michigan or northeastern Pennsylvania. Or whatever. They don’t have anything to offer them. And so I think it’s intuitively understandable that a screaming, loud, wrong answer is more compelling than a calm, reasonable, accurate, right answer: Your life is going to be worse for the rest of your life

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/dems-need-better-answers-for-the-working-class.html

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Erm do you even know what my original position was?

You said Trump deserves respect for being an unshame campaigner (when that's wrong), then claims he holds his positions well (when he has changed positions just as much), you're doing a Trump I feel

No, I was actually in agreement with your original position, then you started to have an argument with yourself.

With respect, it's difficult to maintain a dialog with someone who constantly moves goal posts and changes position to simply win an agrgument.

Not ready for prime time.

 

[Mofra]

I don't think the Democrats as they exist right now have much to offer them:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/dems-need-better-answers-for-the-working-class.html

Interesting article - reminiscent of articles that were floating around 1-2 years ago that spoke of the rise of right-wing anti-immigration pro-nationalism parties in Europe, specifically a lot of coverage regarding Jobbik and their anti-Roma stance.
That only gets you so far but it certainly gets your foot in the door; not sure Jobbik can gain much more than 20% of the vote long term but it does set a precedent.

 

[Cooldude]

No, I was actually in agreement with your original position, then you started to have an argument with yourself.

With respect, it's difficult to maintain a dialog with someone who constantly moves goal posts and changes position to simply win an agrgument.

Not ready for prime time.

You said Trump should be commended for not changing positions, I disagree, that's not agreement.

2nd line is what Trump does, and also, I did no such thing if that's what you're saying

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

I don't think the Democrats as they exist right now have much to offer them:

Neither party does. The iron-age jobs are not coming back.

 

[Mofra]

Neither party does. The iron-age jobs are not coming back.

Obamacare and the $15 minimum wage are pushes that would in theory help the working class, but both ignore deep ideological opposition to them given a strong libertarian tradition in the US so are unlikely to gain much traction in the polling booths.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

It actually shows moral fortitude that a candidate will not change his/her positions (as much as I disagree with them) to cater to different demographics at different stages of an election process.

Hitlery on the other hand will run to he right and say whatever needs to be said simply to harvest as many motes as possible.

Besides the obvious similiarity between Hillary and Hitler as words. Why use Hitlery for Hillary? Is it just be be offensive, you may as well use Crooked Hillary as well and get aboard the petty name calling.

 

[coerced]

Neither party does. The iron-age jobs are not coming back.

Well I don't think anyone expects people to be forging short swords from iron smelted in small crucibles anytime soon, not even Ted Cruz. I think you mean that Fordism is finally dead. The relationship between employer, worker and consumer that dominated the 20th century is gone.

There seems little agreement on what might replace it other than more government intervention (expansion of welfare), which doesn't really satisfy people who demand some agency.

Interesting article - reminiscent of articles that were floating around 1-2 years ago that spoke of the rise of right-wing anti-immigration pro-nationalism parties in Europe, specifically a lot of coverage regarding Jobbik and their anti-Roma stance.
That only gets you so far but it certainly gets your foot in the door; not sure Jobbik can gain much more than 20% of the vote long term but it does set a precedent.

Nationalism isn't the way forward, but if the normally progressive side of politics simply wants to nitpick over academic ideas of who or what is privileged than nationalism is always going to be more attractive.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Trump has made up ground in Pennsylvania and Michigan. If Clinton loses those states then she is stuffed. She has improved in Ohio however so it's not all bad news for her. Florida and Iowa remain tough ones.

Her best chance of pulling a red state is Arizona, however recent polling doesn't look promising for her there.

Last presidential election results in Pennsylvania - Obama won in 2012 by 5.4% http://www.270towin.com/states/pennsylvania


Latest Pennsylvania Polls has Hillary at 4% And the average of polls has her bang on 5% http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_clinton-5633.html so i'm not sure what world these are showing Trump closing.



Iowa is 6 Electoral Votes so is borderline irrelevant. Florida and Ohio are dead heats at the moment, but also under polled, so will be interesting to see what happens there.

Latest polling has actually lead to the likely outcome below. 65% is in no way a certainty, but she's definitely a strong favourite, and I can't see Trump improving in the short term given his latest blunders.

 

[SexyBlueGirl]

Besides the obvious similiarity between Hillary and Hitler as words. Why use Hitlery for Hillary? Is it just be be offensive, you may as well use Crooked Hillary as well and get aboard the petty name calling.

Strange, I don't hear you complaining about my use of "Drumpf".

You're so far in the Hitlery tank, it's really quite embarrassing.

 

[Mofra]

Well I don't think anyone expects people to be forging short swords from iron smelted in small crucibles anytime soon, not even Ted Cruz. I think you mean that Fordism is finally dead. The relationship between employer, worker and consumer that dominated the 20th century is gone.

There seems little agreement on what might replace it other than more government intervention (expansion of welfare), which doesn't really satisfy people who demand some agency.

"The rise of the precariat" is an extensively discussed trend - it benefits educated urbanites with saleable skills who have the ability to tap into the new paradigm of intermittent/contract employment yet those who relied on more traditional employment are those who are disadvantaged the most.