2016 US Presidential Election - Trump vs Clinton? - Part 1

[Brunswick Trap King]

Hillary will be fine then

Can she deliver a roast like Barack can?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

What are some of the best things that he has achieved?

How about Health care? Something people have been fighting for without success for decades, how about energy dependency, or financial services reform. There's a long list. They may not be perfect or your preferred policies but they've happened.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/obama-biggest-achievements-213487

 

[Arthur Dunger]

Can she deliver a roast like Barack can?

Looks like it

 

[mellowyellow]

This gave me a laugh as Trump despeartly seeks to raise funds for his campaign

 

[Catastic82]

This gave me a laugh as Trump despeartly seeks to raise funds for his campaign

But I though he had $10 billion

 

[Cooldude]

184 bucks? That book better be gold rimmed and diamond encrusted

Starting to think whoever falls for this guy's shitty scams deserve to be conned coz it's so obvious

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

He is the worst candidate ever. Except for maybe Hillary .... Oh boy we are all stuffed.

There is no evidence to back this attitude. Every claim about Clinton (that she is a criminal who should be locked up, that she is corrupt, that she is a warmonger) are based on, at best, unfair analysis. Mostly, though, it's just out-n-out lies and malicious invention posing as 'rumour'.

Yet these claims are the only refuge of people who have previously tied themselves to Trump or 'the right'; or to those who have simply staked their claim that 'all politicians are the same'.

Like it or not, politics are important. Spreading falsehoods is detrimental to society.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

So, with talk of GOP looking to try and replace Trump it appears they are ****ed. First they basically have to get him to step down (e.g. would require a massive bribe/pay off), then they could look to get someone else in.
https://ballotpedia.org/State_laws_and_party_rules_on_replacing_a_presidential_nominee

Slight problem... Would leave them past the deadline to make the change in some states. Would punt away 11 electoral votes in Arizona, and 3 in Wyoming, which would be expected to otherwise have gone to the GOP. No way they can win giving away votes.

A heap of other states hit their deadlines this month as well, so would need to happen very very quickly to have any chance of putting someone else with any small small chance of winning.

 

[JackNah_8]

Could Pence take over from Trump?

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

So, with talk of GOP looking to try and replace Trump it appears they are stuffed. First they basically have to get him to step down (e.g. would require a massive bribe/pay off), then they could look to get someone else in.
https://ballotpedia.org/State_laws_and_party_rules_on_replacing_a_presidential_nominee

Slight problem... Would leave them past the deadline to make the change in some states. Would punt away 11 electoral votes in Arizona, and 3 in Wyoming, which would be expected to otherwise have gone to the GOP. No way they can win giving away votes.

A heap of other states hit their deadlines this month as well, so would need to happen very very quickly to have any chance of putting someone else with any small small chance of winning.

This would be for Paul Ryan? I saw Mike Pence has endorsed Ryan even though Trump refuses to.

Probably not the best look to have your VP and Pres disagreeing so early on, but of course Trump was only endorsed by Ryan at the last moment and with little enthusiasm so Trump will hold a grudge on that.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Could Pence take over from Trump?

Would have to go through the process of voting as per below. The issue is there's no clear candidate that would be guaranteed the support of the voters, would get very very messy with Cruz popping back up, Ryan or Romney trying to step in after having sat out the primary, and trump supporters fuming over having their guy forced out.

What would happen if Trump dropped out?

The GOP has a procedure in its official rules outlining the party’s options in the event that its presidential or vice presidential nominee dies or withdraws from the race after the national convention.

Rule 9 of the Rules of the Republican Party—which were last approved and amended at the Republican National Convention in July 2016—says that if a Republican candidate for president or vice president leaves the race due to “death, declination, or otherwise,” the Republican National Committee (RNC) has the authority to fill a vacancy by a majority vote of its 168 members or by reconvening the national convention.

If the RNC took the latter route—reconvening the national convention—the logistics and details of this are unknown, but the basic idea is that the right to fill the vacancy would be handed over to the 2,472 delegates of the national convention.

The details of what would happen if the RNC chose to fill the vacancy by a majority vote of its membership are spelled out in Rule 9. It would work like this:

• All 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, and the U.S. Virgin Islands have three members who sit on the Republican National Committee: a state chair, a national committeeman, and a national committeewoman.
• Those three individuals would be entitled to cast the same number of votes for the replacement nominee as their state or territory was entitled to at the national convention. So, for example, California’s three members on the RNC would be responsible for casting 172 votes, while Alaska’s three members would have 28 votes.
• What would happen if California’s three members disagreed on how to cast their state’s 172 votes? Rule 9 says that the state’s votes would be “divided up equally,” and that includes fractions. In other words, each RNC member from California would get 57.3 votes.
• For a candidate to be elected to fill a vacancy, he or she would need to receive a majority of the 2,472 votes up for grabs, which is 1,237.

According to Rule 8(b), the chair of the RNC must call a meeting for the purpose of filling a vacancy on the national ticket, and he or she must give a minimum of five days notice to the committee members (the minimum is ten days for other matters).

 

[Mofra]

Slight problem... Would leave them past the deadline to make the change in some states. Would punt away 11 electoral votes in Arizona, and 3 in Wyoming, which would be expected to otherwise have gone to the GOP. No way they can win giving away votes.

Isn't Arizona one of the traditionally GOP states where Hillary is ahead in the polls?
Looks like the Republicans are imploding which means neither side are going to get much scrutiny on policy this election.
It will be personality vs personality.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Isn't Arizona one of the traditionally GOP states where Hillary is ahead in the polls?
Looks like the Republicans are imploding which means neither side are going to get much scrutiny on policy this election.
It will be personality vs personality.

Yeah Arizona may come into play and if it does, it's going to be a landslide of epic performances, given it's been won by GOP by 8+ last few elections.

I think this election will be pretty much Hillary sitting back lobbing out the occasional jab at Trump then she'll spend the week doing her events etc., while Trump implodes (see this week in action). No need for her to aggressively try push/sell anything

 

[Hank Scorpion]

If the RNC try to shoehorn someone else in, half their vote is gone; Dems would have the presidency and control Congress for a long time. It would take a generation for GOP to try and expunge itself of Tea-party types and Trumpets.

 

[Mofra]

I think this election will be pretty much Hillary sitting back lobbing out the occasional jab at Trump then she'll spend the week doing her events etc., while Trump implodes (see this week in action). No need for her to aggressively try push/sell anything

Would be interesting to see how her strategy changes if Trump gets rolled.
Everyone knows conventions are stage-managed to within an inch of their life but the Khan family was a stroke of genius by the Dem strategists as it was likely Don would dig his own grave with any response (and he seems incapable of letting things slide without response).

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Would be interesting to see how her strategy changes if Trump gets rolled.
Everyone knows conventions are stage-managed to within an inch of their life but the Khan family was a stroke of genius by the Dem strategists as it was likely Don would dig his own grave with any response (and he seems incapable of letting things slide without response).

I've said this before, but it didn't need a 'response' for the point to be made. The US Constitution is a document that means something in America, both legally and culturally.

Banning and registering people based on their religion goes against a founding ideology of the country. The fact that despite this, it took Trump's arrogant, tin-eared, disrespectful response to make people call him out, says more about the state of the Republican Party than it says about the state of America in my opinion.

If the RNC try to shoehorn someone else in, half their vote is gone; Dems would have the presidency and control Congress for a long time. It would take a generation for GOP to try and expunge itself of Tea-party types and Trumpets.

If that's true, then we have to be grateful for the Primary system in America. The main contest will become about the battle to lead the Democrats, rather than to be President. But I think a big loss this election would take all the steam out of the Trumpsters.

Tea Party types would battle on since Trump isn't a 'small govt' guy, but then you have the mid-terms and that seems much more RNC controlled, so Ryan and friends can try and tweak things their way. Perhaps you give the Tea Partiers their preferred candidate a relatively free run against Clinton's re-election and the results there would help decide who they ran against Michelle Obama/Cory Brooker in 2024.

 

[NitroFan]

Not really, he identifies lots of problems in America and proposes utopian alternatives. He doesn't really detail how he is going to fix America, just that he will.

Reminds me of a scene in season 2 of Fargo.

Lou: Do you really think we'll get out of this mess we're in?

Ronald Reagan: Son, there's not a challenge on God's Earth that can't be overcome by an American. I truly believe that.

Lou: Yeah...but how?

Reagan: *stares*


...


*walks away*

 

[coerced]

The idea that the support for a Trump-style candidate will disappear if Trump implodes is so laughably naive and historically ignorant.

Or even that the Republicans would implode. In 1964 Goldwater got smoked worse than Trump will be and in 1974 a Republican president was revealed as a crook. In 1980 a Goldwater-style candidate was elected president for the Republicans and reigned for 12 years, changing US politics to such a degree that the Clinton candidacy was framed in Reagan terms, and aimed at "Reagan Democrats".

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I"m investing in popcorn futures. I see a lot being eaten in next 3 months!

 

[JackNah_8]

Would have to go through the process of voting as per below. The issue is there's no clear candidate that would be guaranteed the support of the voters, would get very very messy with Cruz popping back up, Ryan or Romney trying to step in after having sat out the primary, and trump supporters fuming over having their guy forced out.

The Republicans could go for a Pence and Ryan team. If Trump ends up walking away or being pushed out.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

The Republicans could go for a Pence and Ryan team. If Trump ends up walking away or being pushed out.

So two people who didn't run in the Primary at all. I'm sure the base would love having that pushed on them by the establishment. No way that happens.

In lesson in Republican hypocrisy exampel #12,450,340



Yes, that is "the" Ollie North...

 

[Badesumofu]

There is no way the GoP can switch horses now. It's rather amusing that Trump waited until *after* the conventions to unleash his latest batch of crazy, because now it's too late. They are stuffed. Their best bet might be to rescind their endorsements en masse and back Gary Johnson who is, after all, a former Republican governor.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

There is no way the GoP can switch horses now. It's rather amusing that Trump waited until *after* the conventions to unleash his latest batch of crazy, because now it's too late. They are stuffed. Their best bet might be to rescind their endorsements en masse and back Gary Johnson who is, after all, a former Republican governor.

It's either switch horses or hope that Trump turns meek and gets creamed anyway. He is ruining the Republicans image with each comment. If he doesn't turn meek then that could continue to damage them, so I understand why they are still considering it.

I don't think they really will, though. Trump would need to resign. Perhaps if they invented an internal scandal ("Russia, can you please hack the RNC?").

He will be cut dry post-election anyway, but for me it's about how the RNC needs to attract more intelligent party members. Sticking with Trump the whole way through will embolden those people in the party to go for more crazy next election. Clearly saying 'this is not who we are' will remove a chunk of voters, but it signals that the RNC really are serious about recalculating so that they can diversify their vote. They would need the polls to look drastic so they could say they were doing it to 'save the furniture'. Trump can then say 'I told you it was rigged'.

 

[Maggie5]

The idea that the support for a Trump-style candidate will disappear if Trump implodes is so laughably naive and historically ignorant.

Or even that the Republicans would implode. In 1964 Goldwater got smoked worse than Trump will be and in 1974 a Republican president was revealed as a crook. In 1980 a Goldwater-style candidate was elected president for the Republicans and reigned for 12 years, changing US politics to such a degree that the Clinton candidacy was framed in Reagan terms, and aimed at "Reagan Democrats".

Normally history would be a good reference but but Politics has changed so much, look at our country, throwing out first term governments, minor parties having a major say. No in this instance don't think you use what has happened in the past as a point in case.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Sounds like people are looking for excuses already. Blame everything but the candidate.

And just days ago they were calling Trump a master tactician, every utterance designed to act in his favour.