Review Do we need a new coach? Part 2

[TigerImposter]

You should never judge the club against your own clubs past, there are 17 other clubs to keep a standard.

"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." - Michelangelo.

Sounds like when Michelangelo made that statement he was urinating from the top of the Sistine Chapel.

 

[TheProwler]

Don't worry, it's not going to be 20 years. Chill pill, feet up, enjoy the ride

I disagree, it will be many more. What the coach has done in the last year in particular will affect the club for many more years.

Even with the recruiting this year there is no light at the end of the tunnel, a little at the start but then it fades away to darkness again. You don't play a style like we did last year and just flick the switch to a new plan in an offseason. It will take a minimum offseason and half the season to see any change take place, maybe all of 2017. We will be something like 2&10 to 4&8 at the bye, presure will be on the club to sign Martin, the coach will be getting an enormous amount of media pressure to win some games or even just show improvement, the board will again be under pressure from the restless gatherers wanting blood, gate takings will be plummeting, the club will be tested to see just how stable it really is.

Balme needs to bite the bullet now and replace Hardwick as senior coach, further delay will just harm our reputation more. Hardwick should be given the chance to walk away now with dignity, let him make up some sort of story to cover the truth (Richmond is very good at this) and appoint Caracella to lead the boys for 2017 and then appoint a new coach for 2018. That gives Caracella a year to impress or be evaluated as not being the man.

Blind Freddie can see Hardwick is taking us nowhere, needs to go now, not next week, not in six months time when our side is getting flogged each week. Now is the time.

 

[baphomet]

Piss of damien you incompetent, favourites playing, list blocking loving flog

 

[Alabama Slammer]

You should never judge the club against your own clubs past, there are 17 other clubs to keep a standard.

"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." - Michelangelo.

Those ninja turtles are wise turtles

 

[Rayzorwire]

Those players you mentioned flourished under hardwick, mainly cotchin martin and riewoldt. Deledio was born an A grader so not included. We've been too high up the ladder for A graders for a while, he's not the recruiter he's the coach. I think both Ellis's are more than capable of being above B graders, next two years will show, prestia and caddy well they can definitely be A graders too lets see how they go under hardwick in 2017. Rance while you can still credit leppa, became who he is under hardwicks reign. Just look at the results under hardwick compared to our results since Frawley. Clubs do climb, go down a bit (we had stars injured, depleted availability in 2016 for a duration that would have damaged any team), before rising again and rising further.

Actually look at where Hardwick has taken us since Robert Walls, Geischan has a higher percentage of wins but from a very small number of games as coach. None of geish, frawley, wallace or rawlings(don't know why i included him) took over the club from such a low point as what hardwick did.

Credit where it is due, it takes time. Next two years will be very telling and i'm quietly confident of another rise with hardwick!

Hardwick has taken Reiwoldt from an AA FF to a frustrated shadow of himself, Cotchin from Brownlow form to a shadow of himself, and Martin is 'starring' at exactly the kind of meaningless possession twaddle which seems to be all poor, confused, way out of his depth Dimmer has left to offer us.

As for this 'we were so low before Dimmer came and saved us' BS, I suggest you watch the 2004 season and contrast that utterly hopeless side with the one Wallace had running Geelong to the wire at Kardinia a few weeks before he was sacked. Hardwick quite deliberately turned us into Fitzroy with his 'we've just got to get 50 games into all these super talented kids and teach them the Hardwick way' garbage, Tuck on the hbf so Thomson and Nason and Nahas can properly develop into elite onballers.

It'd be ****ing hilarious IF IT WAS ANY CLUB OTHER THAN OURS!

 

[Rayzorwire]

I disagree, it will be many more. What the coach has done in the last year in particular will affect the club for many more years.

Even with the recruiting this year there is no light at the end of the tunnel, a little at the start but then it fades away to darkness again. You don't play a style like we did last year and just flick the switch to a new plan in an offseason. It will take a minimum offseason and half the season to see any change take place, maybe all of 2017. We will be something like 2&10 to 4&8 at the bye, presure will be on the club to sign Martin, the coach will be getting an enormous amount of media pressure to win some games or even just show improvement, the board will again be under pressure from the restless gatherers wanting blood, gate takings will be plummeting, the club will be tested to see just how stable it really is.

Balme needs to bite the bullet now and replace Hardwick as senior coach, further delay will just harm our reputation more. Hardwick should be given the chance to walk away now with dignity, let him make up some sort of story to cover the truth (Richmond is very good at this) and appoint Caracella to lead the boys for 2017 and then appoint a new coach for 2018. That gives Caracella a year to impress or be evaluated as not being the man.

Blind Freddie can see Hardwick is taking us nowhere, needs to go now, not next week, not in six months time when our side is getting flogged each week. Now is the time.

If it was Balme's call alone, it would already be done.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Hardwick has taken Reiwoldt from an AA FF to a frustrated shadow of himself, Cotchin from Brownlow form to a shadow of himself, and Martin is 'starring' at exactly the kind of meaningless possession twaddle which seems to be all poor, confused, way out of his depth Dimmer has left to offer us.

As for this 'we were so low before Dimmer came and saved us' BS, I suggest you watch the 2004 season and contrast that utterly hopeless side with the one Wallace had running Geelong to the wire at Kardinia a few weeks before he was sacked. Hardwick quite deliberately turned us into Fitzroy with his 'we've just got to get 50 games into all these super talented kids and teach them the Hardwick way' garbage, Tuck on the hbf so Thomson and Nason and Nahas can properly develop into elite onballers.

It'd be ******* hilarious IF IT WAS ANY CLUB OTHER THAN OURS!

so the players have no responsibility or bearing on how they turn out? its all the coaches fault if they don't playto their potential?

 

[TigerImposter]

If it was Balme's call alone, it would already be done.

Welcome back RW.

 

[I Rock]

People forget just how well he turned this team around, happy to see what he does in 2017 and 2018

Wrong; too many people over value how "far" he turned the team around and seem to miss the obvious that he ain't taking it any further. In fact it went backwards at a rate of knots.....

 

[TigerImposter]

I disagree, it will be many more. What the coach has done in the last year in particular will affect the club for many more years.

Even with the recruiting this year there is no light at the end of the tunnel, a little at the start but then it fades away to darkness again. You don't play a style like we did last year and just flick the switch to a new plan in an offseason. It will take a minimum offseason and half the season to see any change take place, maybe all of 2017. We will be something like 2&10 to 4&8 at the bye, presure will be on the club to sign Martin, the coach will be getting an enormous amount of media pressure to win some games or even just show improvement, the board will again be under pressure from the restless gatherers wanting blood, gate takings will be plummeting, the club will be tested to see just how stable it really is.

Balme needs to bite the bullet now and replace Hardwick as senior coach, further delay will just harm our reputation more. Hardwick should be given the chance to walk away now with dignity, let him make up some sort of story to cover the truth (Richmond is very good at this) and appoint Caracella to lead the boys for 2017 and then appoint a new coach for 2018. That gives Caracella a year to impress or be evaluated as not being the man.

Blind Freddie can see Hardwick is taking us nowhere, needs to go now, not next week, not in six months time when our side is getting flogged each week. Now is the time.

Top post Prowler, but surely we can't stuff it up with our soft draw? I reckon we wil go into the bye 5-6 or 6-5 and end up
11-11 or 12-10. All in readiness to give DH another extension April 2018.

 

[Rayzorwire]

so the players have no responsibility or bearing on how they turn out? its all the coaches fault if they don't playto their potential?

The players certainly have some bearing on the end result, but yes, I believe the coach is by far the most decisive factor. I don't doubt for one second that the vast majority of our players would be better players under a better head coach and in a better coaching system.

In no season has that ever been more apparent than this one where we've watched Beveridge do what was unthinkable at the beginning of the season, let alone when he took over.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

The players certainly have some bearing on the end result, but yes, I believe the coach is by far the most decisive factor. I don't doubt for one second that the vast majority of our players would be better players under a better head coach and in a better coaching system.

In no season has that ever been more apparent than this one where we've watched Beveridge do what was unthinkable at the beginning of the season, let alone when he took over.

I think Hardwick just tries too hard to make everyone a team player, not letting anyone stand out, show their strengths etc

 

[Sassafras]

The players certainly have some bearing on the end result, but yes, I believe the coach is by far the most decisive factor. I don't doubt for one second that the vast majority of our players would be better players under a better head coach and in a better coaching system.

In no season has that ever been more apparent than this one where we've watched Beveridge do what was unthinkable at the beginning of the season, let alone when he took over.

Then why are Richmond going with Hardwick again, money over success?

 

[Rayzorwire]

Welcome back RW.

Cheers TI, I'm usually absent this time of year, much to the relief of those who feel I'm like a broken record...

I'll be relieved when we have a coach I can support again.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Cheers TI, I'm usually absent this time of year, much to the relief of those who feel I'm like a broken record...

I'll be relieved when we have a coach I can support again.

one point ill make though, Jack was AA last year in his up the ground role, so it hasn't hurt him that much..its only this year he has been down.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I think Hardwick just tries too hard to make everyone a team player, not letting anyone stand out, show their strengths etc

I think he's a far too arrogant for his own good football dunce who's covered that fact to a limited degree by getting far too familiar with his favourites in the playing group and the wider football 'boys club.'

 

[TigerImposter]

Then why are Richmond going with Hardwick again, money over success?

Money isn't a factor here as they've already cost us millions and will cost more if he stays on. Even after equalization tax.
It's hanging onto false hopes in the expectation he will turn it around. It's just another poor business decision rather than backing on Field targets at all costs.

 

[Sassafras]

Money isn't a factor here as they've already cost us millions and will cost more if he stays on. Even after equalization tax.
It's hanging onto false hopes in the expectation he will turn it around. It's just another poor business decision rather than backing on Field targets at all costs.

Hopes, what hopes? Wasting another year of elite talent, magnificent work.

 

[exceptional design]

Hardwick has taken Reiwoldt from an AA FF to a frustrated shadow of himself, Cotchin from Brownlow form to a shadow of himself, and Martin is 'starring' at exactly the kind of meaningless possession twaddle which seems to be all poor, confused, way out of his depth Dimmer has left to offer us.

As for this 'we were so low before Dimmer came and saved us' BS, I suggest you watch the 2004 season and contrast that utterly hopeless side with the one Wallace had running Geelong to the wire at Kardinia a few weeks before he was sacked. Hardwick quite deliberately turned us into Fitzroy with his 'we've just got to get 50 games into all these super talented kids and teach them the Hardwick way' garbage, Tuck on the hbf so Thomson and Nason and Nahas can properly develop into elite onballers.

It'd be ******* hilarious IF IT WAS ANY CLUB OTHER THAN OURS!

So glad you mentioned this stuff. I was thinking about posting up earlier the amount of players who didn't get much of a game from mid 2009 (Jade the Blade), and then the amount that got delisted just days before Hardwick was appointed, a lot of them were better than what we got in 2010.
There is a reason why we only won 5 games that year and finished so low in 2009 and although Wallace deserved the chop, he was only there for half a season.
DH still seems to want give 50 games away, rather than playing best available each week. And last year was a classic 2010 & 2011.
The biggest problem for me is he seems to have all these preconceived notions and doesn't change them & doesn't learn.

 

[TheProwler]

so the players have no responsibility or bearing on how they turn out? its all the coaches fault if they don't playto their potential?

But they aren't playing to their potential. The coach has driven his message to the players and we saw last year how they responded. Not too long ago a player dared to question the coaches game plan in an interview, got harassed by the media at Richmond station and eventually apologised publicly even though it was a token effort. He is now a run of the mill player who's first instinct is to get the ball but that's not what the coach wants. Gone from Elite to a B grade at best player.

Potential can only be reached if you give it every chance.

Now as piss poor as our recruiting has been since Hardwick took charge you would think one, just one of those kids drafted in that time (close to 50 including rookies) would look like becoming a footballer. Name one for me drafted in his tenure that looks likely to become A grade or elite?

 

[TheProwler]

Top post Prowler, but surely we can't stuff it up with our soft draw? I reckon we wil go into the bye 5-6 or 6-5 and end up
11-11 or 12-10. All in readiness to give DH another extension April 2018.

I think only the Bears and one of Carlton, bombers or Freo in Melb are a chance. We could arse one of the others but on last years style of ring a ring a Rosie cough up the footy I don't share your confidence.

 

[TigerImposter]

Hopes, what hopes? Wasting another year of elite talent, magnificent work.

We've wasted seven as IVe seen no new guns on our list being developed. The real waste was after 2012 as had they sacked DH rather than made excuses (honourable losses)we could have gone places both successfully and financially. If you want to profit the best way is to demand success at a short term cost.
The Dogs got rid of McCartney who at least identifies talent and is great with young players . This bloke runs rings around DH.
DH had blokes on here conned that AMoore and Townsend we're going to improve our midfield and be of great assistance to Cotchin .

 

[TheProwler]

one point ill make though, Jack was AA last year in his up the ground role, so it hasn't hurt him that much..its only this year he has been down.

Define AA for me.

I appreciate you admire the coach and are willing to give him credit but seriously to take your best forward out of the forward line to play in the midfield was a joke and slap in the face for Richmond players and fans. I know we had injuries and Jack was given a role to play but it cost the team ten fold to what may have been if Jack was left in the forward 50. It just allowed jacks man to zone back and cover what was left of our forward targets, Ty

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Define AA for me.

I appreciate you admire the coach and are willing to give him credit but seriously to take your best forward out of the forward line to play in the midfield was a joke and slap in the face for Richmond players and fans. I know we had injuries and Jack was given a role to play but it cost the team ten fold to what may have been if Jack was left in the forward 50. It just allowed jacks man to zone back and cover what was left of our forward targets, Ty

where did i say i was a fan of the coach?

I agree to an extent he doesn't always players to their strengths.

Just saying, some of these examples are mostly a result of a poor year than anything else.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

anyway that is all for me, this coach debate is now incredibly tiresome( my fault for posting I know )... he will be gone midyear if we don't improve anyway.