Religion The God Question - part 2

[Watchyourwaite]

I reckon you'd get more value out of Aesop's fables, personally.

At least most of them get to the point.

Yep, Aesops fables is a little like the bible, for kids.

Needs to be easy to understand and spoon fed.
The bible is a lot deeper than that. But your on the right track.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Yeah, because I don't understand the Bible I can't make sense of it.

Yes. Whats the eyeroll for?
Evolution doesnt make sense to me. Does that mean evolution is wrong, or that I dont understand it? (Or a bit of each).?

Not understanding, and not making sense of something pretty much goes hand in hand. So I dont understand (Cant make sense) of your point.

The Bible only makes sense to brainwashed Muppets who are unwilling or unable to use critical thinking.

Taking a page out of your friends Skiltz book. I am not a muppet thus you are a liar.

I use critical thinking all the time.

But I'll play your game; tell me, is it possible that understanding the Bible and not agreeing with it are compatible? Your mentality implies that's not.

Yes, I believe that you not agreeing with the bible is either because you dont understand it, or because you are and agent of evil.

As for your last response - that's a complete cop out. Anything you can explain will be literal, anything you can't will be metaphorical.

No, most things can be explained. And the explanation can sometimes be that it is literal or it is metaphorical.
And it isnt a cop out. But it is further proof that you dont understand the bible.

So, Adam beijg created from dirt? Literal or methapor? Eve being created from one of Adam's ribs? Literal or metaphor? The great flood? Noah's Ark... et al.

Ive no idea what a beijg is.
And that is open to interpretation.
Plenty of evidence of the great flood. And even if you believe evolution, how would we all still be here if not for the ark? Or maybe a system of arks? NOAH - Network for Ocean Aviation for Humans. Like SHIELD - Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division.

There are so many ways we are still trying to understand the bible. Dont forget this is divine writings. We still aren't actually capable of fully understanding these words.


Eve from Adams ribs. So many ways to look at that. Did god literally pull out a rib from Adam to make Eve? Who knows.
But maybe he was actually talking about genetic markers, and giving us the heads up to understanding DNA, genetics, RNA, etc.


Im done with this thread for now anyway. To much abuse and to hostile.
Dont even know why you post in this thread if you dont believe in god.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Yes. Whats the eyeroll for?
Evolution doesnt make sense to me. Does that mean evolution is wrong, or that I dont understand it? (Or a bit of each).?

Not understanding, and not making sense of something pretty much goes hand in hand. So I dont understand (Cant make sense) of your point.


Taking a page out of your friends Skiltz book. I am not a muppet thus you are a liar.

I use critical thinking all the time.


Yes, I believe that you not agreeing with the bible is either because you dont understand it, or because you are and agent of evil.


No, most things can be explained. And the explanation can sometimes be that it is literal or it is metaphorical.
And it isnt a cop out. But it is further proof that you dont understand the bible.


Ive no idea what a beijg is.
And that is open to interpretation.
Plenty of evidence of the great flood. And even if you believe evolution, how would we all still be here if not for the ark? Or maybe a system of arks? NOAH - Network for Ocean Aviation for Humans. Like SHIELD - Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division.

There are so many ways we are still trying to understand the bible. Dont forget this is divine writings. We still aren't actually capable of fully understanding these words.


Eve from Adams ribs. So many ways to look at that. Did god literally pull out a rib from Adam to make Eve? Who knows.
But maybe he was actually talking about genetic markers, and giving us the heads up to understanding DNA, genetics, RNA, etc.


Im done with this thread for now anyway. To much abuse and to hostile.
Dont even know why you post in this thread if you dont believe in god.

Evolution doesn't make sense to you. Well, there's most of your problem right there. And you claim to use critical thinking? You don't know what the definition even means! Don't go pasting a definition in either - you've already demonstrated that you do not adopt such methods.

Not understanding something obviously results in not making sense of it. I make sense of it. It's a load of shit. Oh, but that just makes me an "agent of evil" LOL. Dude, are you actually serious? I bloody well hope you're trolling, because that's some deluded shit you're espousing.

An explanation of something being either literal or metaphorical is not in and of itself an explanation. It's a nothing comment as you can't explain something that you have NFI about the legitimacy of. You're just parroting shit you've been fed by whomever parties you've been indoctrinated by.

You don't understand what beijng is? That doesn't surprise me. You've got your literal/metaphor meter mixed up. Beijng wasn't literal, it was a typo. But that goes hand with you claiming you're not a Muppet when obviously you took that to literally mean a Muppet of the Jim Henson variety.

Your point about the Ark is you clearly trolling. You're saying that my belief in evolution is somehow subsumed by the claim of there being and Ark? WTF dude? Where's all this evidence you speak of which suggests a great flood? And don't post anything from a fundamentalist website. I only want credible, scientific sources.

Adam and Eve "so many ways to look at it". How about the only way, the factual way? Until it's proven with facts, I'm going along with looking at it as though it's a load of bullshit.

Where does it say in this thread that it's only for people who believe in God? It's the God question which is pertinent here. It wouldn't be a question if only your kind were in here. You'd call the thread "The God default".

 

[evo]

Yep, Aesops fables is a little like the bible, for kids.

Needs to be easy to understand and spoon fed.
The bible is a lot deeper than that. But your on the right track.

So what valuable insights have you gained from this alleged deep book that you couldn't have gained elsewhere?

It appears it has already dissuaded you from accepting evolution, so prima facie you're already in a deficit from where I'm sitting.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Evolution doesn't make sense to you. Well, there's most of your problem right there. And you claim to use critical thinking? You don't know what the definition even means! Don't go pasting a definition in either - you've already demonstrated that you do not adopt such methods.

Attack.

Not understanding something obviously results in not making sense of it. I make sense of it. It's a load of shit. Oh, but that just makes me an "agent of evil" LOL. Dude, are you actually serious? I bloody well hope you're trolling, because that's some deluded shit you're espousing.

Attack.

An explanation of something being either literal or metaphorical is not in and of itself an explanation. It's a nothing comment as you can't explain something that you have NFI about the legitimacy of. You're just parroting shit you've been fed by whomever parties you've been indoctrinated by.

Attack.

You don't understand what beijng is? That doesn't surprise me. You've got your literal/metaphor meter mixed up. Beijng wasn't literal, it was a typo. But that goes hand with you claiming you're not a Muppet when obviously you took that to literally mean a Muppet of the Jim Henson variety.

Attack.
You even admit its your mistake but still blame me for it.

Your point about the Ark is you clearly trolling. You're saying that my belief in evolution is somehow subsumed by the claim of there being and Ark? WTF dude? Where's all this evidence you speak of which suggests a great flood? And don't post anything from a fundamentalist website. I only want credible, scientific sources.

Attack.
And Im not saying anything about subsumed.
Adam and Eve "so many ways to look at it". How about the only way, the factual way? Until it's proven with facts, I'm going along with looking at it as though it's a load of bullshit.[/QUOTE]
This is why I say you dont understand the bible.
There is alot of historical and proven content from the bible. But you dont understand genesis, so you say its all bullshit.

Where does it say in this thread that it's only for people who believe in God? It's the God question which is pertinent here. It wouldn't be a question if only your kind were in here. You'd call the thread "The God default".

It isnt "Questioning God" its the god question.
Why are you talking about something you dont even think exists?

Why dont you try again without being so nasty?

And the agent of evil bit. Im not saying that satan is literally calling you up and asking you to do things. But I do think you are being pushed into trying to test peoples faith. Can you say that there is definitely no outside force that might be making you try to test my faith?

 

[Watchyourwaite]

So what valuable insights have you gained from this alleged deep book that you couldn't have gained elsewhere?

It appears it has already dissuaded you from accepting evolution, so prima facie you're already in a deficit from where I'm sitting.

I didnt say i dont accept evolution. I pointed out that it doesnt make sense to me. In the same way the bible doesnt make sense to others.

But thank you for actually not attacking me like the other posters.

Insights are hard to define as it has been so much of my life. But in so far as what we think good is, i am a good person. I dont abuse drugs, I dont kill, I help kids etc. I am a positive influence on peoples lives. Who I am comes from my understandings of the bible throughout life.

 

[evo]

Insights are hard to define as it has been so much of my life. But in so far as what we think good is, i am a good person. I dont abuse drugs, I dont kill, I help kids etc. I am a positive influence on peoples lives. Who I am comes from my understandings of the bible throughout life.

Well this is a bit of a disappointment as a follow up to the claim that Aesop fables are for kids whereas the Bible is for the deep thinkers.

That it has taught you not to kill is a pretty low bar one would think. But if it has helped you to be a positive influence on others live that's a win I suppose. I just wonder why you couldn't do that off your own bat.

It seems a lot of worship for not much pay off.

 

[Duritz]

The great flood is in the archaeological record. That's not to say Noah existed and all that stuff, but the great flood happened peoples.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Well this is a bit of a disappointment as a follow up to the claim that Aesop fables are for kids whereas the Bible is for the deep thinkers.

That it has taught you not to kill is a pretty low bar one would think. But if it has helped you to be a positive influence on others live that's a win I suppose. I just wonder why you couldn't do that off your own bat.

It seems a lot of worship for not much pay off.

I didn't say the bible is for deep thinkers. I said it is deeper than aesops. Im not claiming to be a deep thinker or better than someone else. I even mentioned that the bible still cant be fully understood by us, but that maybe one day we will advance enough to be able to really grasp the words of god.

Corinthians 16:13 has helped me alot in life. And I believe that its effect on me has effected people around me. Making us all stronger and more confident in doing the right thing. Or what we think is the right thing.
But its deeper than what it just says
Be on your guard for eg has changed as we have changed. And our understanding has changed. What was once being on your guard (physical) is now being on your guard (mental).
Defending yourself from depression or anxiety or things like that.
Defending yourself from alcoholism or other addictions.
You can enjoy life but you need to always be aware of things that might attack your mentality.

 

[Duritz]

Guys what I really want to know is if God had a name, what would it be and would you call it to his face, if you were faced with him in all his glory, what would you ask if you had just one question?

 

[evo]

Corinthians 16:13 has helped me alot in life. And I believe that its effect on me has effected people around me. Making us all stronger and more confident in doing the right thing.
But its deeper than what it just says
Be on your guard for eg has changed as we have changed. And our understanding has changed. What was once being on your guard (physical) is now being on your guard (mental).
Defending yourself from depression or anxiety or things like that.
Defending yourself from alcoholism or other addictions.
You can enjoy life but you need to always be aware of things that might attack your mentality.

It is ostensibly saying stay faithful to faith. I don't know that that is a great maxim. What about critical thinking, evidence and so forth?

So far I reckon Aesop is winning.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

It is ostensibly saying stay faithful to faith. I don't know that that is a great maxim. What about critical thinking, evidence and so forth?

So far I reckon Aesop is winning.

It isnt a competition.
And faith isnt a great maximum, im just saying its an important part of me and my life, not that it puts a limit on me. In fact there is no maximum for human growth, potential and understanding.
I liked aesops as a kid, and I didnt like the bible. As I aged and matured I started to understand the bible more and started to understand it better.

Pictures and stories of animals were great. But they dont actually deal with the things you face as an adult. The bible does, and gives you tools and understandings to face the world with.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Attack.

Attack.

Attack.

Attack.
You even admit its your mistake but still blame me for it.

Attack.
And Im not saying anything about subsumed.
Adam and Eve "so many ways to look at it". How about the only way, the factual way? Until it's proven with facts, I'm going along with looking at it as though it's a load of bullshit.

My God, man! If you're not trolling then you're making Bennett. look tame in comparison.

You've got to learn to distinguish between attack and criticism. I'll refrain from calling someone a Muppet when they cease being one.

You got me with beijng. I admitted it was my mistake. It was a typo. Kill me now... many have lost their lives for lesser crimes according to the Bible's scripture.

I'm not going to sit here and argue about whether I do or don't understand the Bible. If I don't understand the Bible, fine. You don't understand reality.

Tell me, does someone like a Richard Dawkins or the late Carl Sagan not understand the Bible? Or is the esoteric nature of the Bible incompatible with conventional intelligence?

It isn't "questioning God". Well, no shit. He'd have to actually exist to question him. It's questioning the existence of God, not waxing lyrical about his "existence".

I'm talking about God because religion has been by far the biggest social blight on humanity and has caused more death and destruction to human life than almost any illness. It's a lot bigger than merely Christianity.

I wasn't being nasty. If that's how you interpret nasty then that's your problem, not mine. You clearly don't understand me, as if I were being nasty you'd know about it. I will try and keep the dialogue respectful though.

You think I'm being pushed into questioning people's faith by an evil presense? Umm, no. God says we have a free will, and I'm exercising said free will by thinking with objective reasoning. Faith is incompatible with objective reasoning.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Guys what I really want to know is if God had a name, what would it be and would you call it to his face, if you were faced with him in all his glory, what would you ask if you had just one question?

I'd ask him what the fcuk he was doing catching public transport.

 

[Total Power]

The great flood is in the archaeological record. That's not to say Noah existed and all that stuff, but the great flood happened peoples.

Back then, a flood of a thousand square miles would seem to the locals to be a "world wide flood". If you believe the biblical story to be literal, how did Noah get the animals? How did he get sloths from South America and alligators from the Florida Everglades and giant pandas from China? But there is ample evidence to support a large localized flood in the Middle East in ancient times, before the bible was written there. Where rationality and logic fly out the window is the idea that a small handful of people built a vessel big enough to hold two of every species of animal in the world, then actually GOT two of every species from around the world INTO that vessel, and rode out the flood for almost six weeks. Keeping all those animals safe and fed. AND that every human today is descended from Noah and his family. But other than that.....

 

[skilts]

Guys what I really want to know is if God had a name, what would it be and would you call it to his face, if you were faced with him in all his glory, what would you ask if you had just one question?

This post saddens me. You are obviously blissfully unaware of the impending press conference being held by god this afternoon, in Melbourne's Federation Square. His backup band will be The Aliens from Inner Space. He will turn loaves into fishes and water into methamphetamine, during a presentation, the length of which will seem like an eternity. Be there or be Federation Square. The whole affair will be shown on a big screen at the MCG, to cater for those who suffer from lost and bewildered disorder. A huge turnout is expected there, including one in particular who posts on these boards. I'll be continuing my insistent stalking him of him at the latter venue.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

My God, man! If you're not trolling then you're making Bennett. look tame in comparison.

You've got to learn to distinguish between attack and criticism. I'll refrain from calling someone a Muppet when they cease being one.

You got me with beijng. I admitted it was my mistake. It was a typo. Kill me now... many have lost their lives for lesser crimes according to the Bible's scripture.

I'm not going to sit here and argue about whether I do or don't understand the Bible. If I don't understand the Bible, fine. You don't understand reality.

Tell me, does someone like a Richard Dawkins or the late Carl Sagan not understand the Bible? Or is the esoteric nature of the Bible incompatible with conventional intelligence?

It isn't "questioning God". Well, no shit. He'd have to actually exist to question him. It's questioning the existence of God, not waxing lyrical about his "existence".

I'm talking about God because religion has been by far the biggest social blight on humanity and has caused more death and destruction to human life than almost any illness. It's a lot bigger than merely Christianity.

I wasn't being nasty. If that's how you interpret nasty then that's your problem, not mine. You clearly don't understand me, as if I were being nasty you'd know about it. I will try and keep the dialogue respectful though.

You think I'm being pushed into questioning people's faith by an evil presense? Umm, no. God says we have a free will, and I'm exercising said free will by thinking with objective reasoning. Faith is incompatible with objective reasoning.

Your so wound up you dont even actually read the posts you reply to.

For eg. Your not being pushed into questioning peoples faith. I didnt say that.
You are trying to make people question there faith.
And what reason would you actually have to do that?
Who am i that you would want to try to make me question my faith? There is no natural reason for it, which is why i suggest an unnatural hand guiding you.

And you were/are being nasty. Its like you and your friend smelled blood and went into a frenzy. Not even pausing to actually read the posts as you jumped over each other to insult me.

Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan are very clever people. Maybe they do understand the bible better than me, and choose to be against it.
Or maybe they are also agents sent to make me question my faith?

Just because they dont understand the bible the way I understand the bible doesnt make them stupid or me stupid.

And the bejing thing wasnt me pointing out a typo. I didnt know it was a typo. I asked you to clarify and you stated that me not knowing what your typo meant, made it obvious i was stupid.
You attacked me, for your mistake.
Now your still attacking me for it.

I dont care if you understand the bible or not. It does nothing to my life. Why are you so angry that im happy?

 

[skilts]

As I aged and matured I started to understand the bible more and started to understand it better.

Pictures and stories of animals were great. But they dont actually deal with the things you face as an adult. The bible does, and gives you tools and understandings to face the world with.

Inane repetition is a sign of old age.

The bible as hardware store. No need to buy a book. Tools are available all over the interwebz, if you had the wit to look. In some cases, they refer to them as 'stalks', if this helps you Google. Alternatively, you could ask blackcat, who has a seemingly inexhaustible cache of other words used to describe the membrum virile.

 

[The Unforgiven]

I didnt say i dont accept evolution. I pointed out that it doesnt make sense to me. In the same way the bible doesnt make sense to others.

But thank you for actually not attacking me like the other posters.

Insights are hard to define as it has been so much of my life. But in so far as what we think good is, i am a good person. I dont abuse drugs, I dont kill, I help kids etc. I am a positive influence on peoples lives. Who I am comes from my understandings of the bible throughout life.

In what way doesn't evolution make sense to you? And how can you accept something that doesn't make sense to you? You can't accept it and then no seriously question everything else you believe. Saying you accept it is empty words.

 

[evo]

When I stalk there is Pink Panther music playing in the background.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

In what way doesn't evolution make sense to you? And how can you accept something that doesn't make sense to you? You can't accept it and then no seriously question everything else you believe. Saying you accept it is empty words.

I dont understand it. Just as I dont understand plenty of very advanced concepts.
But just because I dont understand it, doesnt suddenly make it false. or legitimize that I shouldnt have faith that its true.

Me not fully understanding the theory(important part there) of evolution, doesnt mean i think its wrong. I cant prove that its wrong, because its too advanced for me. So if I cant prove its wrong I accept that it must be true.

Or should I be like you, and say that because i dont understand it, it must be wrong and stupid and bullshit and all the other words you use. ?

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Inane repetition is a sign of old age.

The bible as hardware store. No need to buy a book. Tools are available all over the interwebz, if you had the wit to look. In some cases, they refer to them as 'stalks', if this helps you Google. Alternatively, you could ask blackcat, who has a seemingly inexhaustible cache of other words used to describe the membrum virile.

The only repetition is me telling you to leave me alone. unless youd like to meet in person to continue this discussion. (not a threat).

 

[skilts]

Now your still attacking me for it.

But he doesn't even own that device for making illicit alcohol. It just happened to be on his land. That you think it would attack you seems to be the product of a deranged or paranoic mind. Is this what happens to people who read the bible? Maybe his interaction with you is an attempt to show you the error of your ways (you know, like the religious do), rather than an attack, even if he is a whiskey producer.

 

[skilts]

The only repetition is me telling you to leave me alone. unless youd like to meet in person to continue this discussion. (not a threat).

An abject admission of defeat. Pitiful! What's the bet this clown can't resist the temptation to continue stalking me, by replying to my posts?

 

[Watchyourwaite]

But he doesn't even own that device for making illicit alcohol. It just happened to be on his land. That you think it would attack you seems to be the product of a deranged or paranoic mind. Is this what happens to people who read the bible? Maybe his interaction with you is an attempt to show you the error of your ways (you know, like the religious do), rather than an attack, even if he is a whiskey producer.

This makes no sense at all.
Ive no problem with alcohol.