Australian Touring Squad for India

[Damon_3388]

As we speak, Moises Henriques is the leading run scorer in Shield cricket this year. Kind of makes too much sense to have him batting at #6 and bowling 10-15 overs an innings in India ahead of an out-of-form Mitch Marsh though, doesn't it?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

As we speak, Moises Henriques is the leading run scorer in Shield cricket this year. Kind of makes too much sense to have him at #6 and bowling 10-15 overs an innings in India ahead of an out-of-form Mitch Marsh though, doesn't it?

Depends. If they intend on using Marsh as a 3rd quick to allow an extra spinner I understand the selection. Moises' bowling isn't penetrative enough to warrant that role.

 

[Damon_3388]

Depends. If they intend on using Marsh as a 3rd quick to allow an extra spinner I understand the selection. Moises' bowling isn't penetrative enough to warrant that role.

But if the main issue with the #6/all-rounder spot is batting, and Henriques is the leading run-scorer in Shield cricket (has been in form with the bat in all formats all summer, so it's not just a one-game "get him in the Test team" call), and can send down a few overs as the 5th bowler, wouldn't he be the logical choice?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

But if the main issue with the #6/all-rounder spot is batting, and Henriques is the leading run-scorer in Shield cricket (has been in form with the bat in all formats all summer, so it's not just a one-game "get him in the Test team" call), and can send down a few overs as the 5th bowler, wouldn't he be the logical choice?

If Marsh plays, which I doubt anyway, I think he'd bat 7. Not that it makes a huge difference with the way they'll run through us.

 

[Damon_3388]

If Marsh plays, which I doubt anyway, I think he'd bat 7. Not that it makes a huge difference with the way they'll run through us.

Either way, I don't see how Marsh is getting selected ahead of Henriques for the all-rounder spot, on current form or career output.

A comparison of their career Shield numbers makes it even more of a head-scratcher:

Henriques
Batting - 37.76 average (6 centuries, 9 fifties)
Bowling - 32.95 average, 62.38 strike rate, 3.16 economy rate (1 5-fer)

Marsh
Batting - 24.91 average (1 century, 10 fifties)
Bowling - 27.01 average, 48.55 strike rate, 3.33 economy rate (1 5-fer)

Granted, Marsh it the more penetrative bowler, but our pace bowling isn't really an issue. Marsh is an inferior all-rounder to Henriques (especially when you take into account leadership and the mental aspect of the game too), and isn't good enough to warrant selection for either his batting or his bowling alone, either.

I feel like Henriques bowling some tight overs as the 5th bowler, as well as his superior batting ability and form, would be more suited to what we need longer-term, and have far more immediate value in India too. This is a situation where the Mark Waugh NSW bias/influence being used would actually have some merit.

 

[The_Reaper]

But if the main issue with the #6/all-rounder spot is batting, and Henriques is the leading run-scorer in Shield cricket (has been in form with the bat in all formats all summer, so it's not just a one-game "get him in the Test team" call), and can send down a few overs as the 5th bowler, wouldn't he be the logical choice?

Yeah but he's scored about 400 of those runs after the team was selected.

 

[JackOutback]

He's the leading run scorer basically on account of this one big innings, made after (as has been pointed out) the squad was selected.

Interesting to see SMarsh in the runs in the intraclub practice game and Agar in the wickets.

 

[bird_man]

If Marsh plays, which I doubt anyway, I think he'd bat 7. Not that it makes a huge difference with the way they'll run through us.

Batting Marsh at 7 does not change anything though. We'd still have the same top 7 as we would if he would batting at 6, it just means we'd be pushing our keeper who averages 30 up to number 6.

 

[The_Reaper]

Batting Marsh at 7 does not change anything though. We'd still have the same top 7 as we would if he would batting at 6, it just means we'd be pushing our keeper who averages 30 up to number 6.

Can help in terms of partnerships though.

 

[Damon_3388]

Yeah but he's scored about 400 of those runs after the team was selected.

He's the leading run scorer basically on account of this one big innings, made after (as has been pointed out) the squad was selected.

Well, I don't see why Marsh was ahead of Henriques to begin with, really.

Henriques is clearly a better batsman, has a better career record, was in form with the bat in the Matador Cup (69.00 average, #2 run scorer in the comp), the BBL (29.22 average) and the first half of the Shield season (40.33 average), and was in the frame and the Test squad as recently as the Sri Lanka tour. He's got experience in India, and batted fairly well the last time we played Tests there too (scored 68 and 81* batting at #7 in his first Test).

If we're looking for a batting all-rounder who can bowl a bit, I don't see why Henriques isn't the #1 choice.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Well, I don't see why Marsh was ahead of Henriques to begin with, really.

If we're looking for a batting all-rounder who can bowl a bit, I don't see why Henriques isn't the #1 choice.

You're missing the point of Marsh's original selection.

Given the injury curse that was plaguing so many of our young quicks they wanted a bowling all-rounder instead of a batting one. Marsh's bowling is Test standard, whereas the alternatives are more medium pacers. I like Moises so I'm not ripping on him, in fact I'd be happy to see him ahead of Marsh.

Smith never bowls Marsh enough so there's not much point picking him based on this skill anyway.

 

[Kram]

Henriques is a total space cadet.

(ok M.Marsh is a bit to but not as bad!)

 

[The_Reaper]

Well, I don't see why Marsh was ahead of Henriques to begin with, really.

Henriques is clearly a better batsman, has a better career record, was in form with the bat in the Matador Cup (69.00 average, #2 run scorer in the comp), the BBL (29.22 average) and the first half of the Shield season (40.33 average), and was in the frame and the Test squad as recently as the Sri Lanka tour. He's got experience in India, and batted fairly well the last time we played Tests there too (scored 68 and 81* batting at #7 in his first Test).

If we're looking for a batting all-rounder who can bowl a bit, I don't see why Henriques isn't the #1 choice.

I don't disagree with you all there just pointing out that him currently being the lead run scorer in shield cricket is pretty irrelevant to his nonselection a month ago.

 

[Damon_3388]

You're missing the point of Marsh's original selection.

Given the injury curse that was plaguing so many of our young quicks they wanted a bowling all-rounder instead of a batting one. Marsh's bowling is Test standard, whereas the alternatives are more medium pacers. I like Moises so I'm not ripping on him, in fact I'd be happy to see him ahead of Marsh.

Smith never bowls Marsh enough so there's not much point picking him based on this skill anyway.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. We're mainly picking the player in this role for their batting, so I don't see why the superior batsman isn't considered.

Henriques is a total space cadet.

Based on what?

Captains his state and BBL side. Must have some sort of a clue.

I don't disagree with you all there just pointing out that him currently being the lead run scorer in shield cricket is pretty irrelevant to his nonselection a month ago.

I was moreso mentioning it as a point of emphasis of what a quality batsman he is, and that it's a continuation of his good form all season, and superior batsmanship across his career.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Henriques is a total space cadet.

(ok M.Marsh is a bit to but not as bad!)

I think Henriques is potentially an excellent player - I guess at Test level a 'good' player.

But potential is a dirty word.

 

[Damon_3388]

Spose you didn't watch the game where Agar took 10fa on a turning Sydney pitch?

It's pretty much the only time Agar has taken wickets in the Shield over the past two Shield seasons.

To repeat what I said in this thread a month ago, because it still holds true...

Agar took 31 wickets in 2014/15 (9 matches, 318.1 overs, 30.48 average, 61.58 strike rate, 2.97 economy rate), showing good signs, but those numbers were skewed heavily by one big match against bottom-of-the-table South Australia on a turning Glenelg wicket, where he took 10/214 off 69.5 overs. Take that match out, and his figures for the year (34.81 average, 70.95 strike rate, 2.94 economy rate) weren't really that impressive.

He was rubbish last year in the Shield (7 matches, 220 overs, 76.87 average, 146.67 strike rate, 3.15 economy rate, conjuring bad memories of Aaron Heal), and his record this year (4 matches, 143 overs, 27.81 average, 53.63 strike rate, 3.11 economy rate) is also skewed by that big performance on a raging SCG turner (10/141 off 50.3 overs). Again, take that match out as well, and his figures (50.67 average, 92.50 strike rate, 3.29 economy rate) so far this year are pretty poor too.

Agar obviously shows signs of brilliance in favourable conditions, but I still think he's another two or three good, consistent full seasons away from being a proper regular Test option, and that's fine at his age (turned 23 in October). Just don't think we need to be pushing him before his time, when he really hasn't produced all that much in the Shield over the last couple of summers (11 matches, 363 overs, 45.48 average, 87.12 strike rate, 3.13 economy rate combined from 2015-16 and 2016-17 so far, heavily skewed by that one SCG 10-fer a couple of months back).

 

[JackOutback]

I don't think we should be picking him yet either, but taking out his figures on a spinning wicket and judging him primarily on games at the WACA seems a but perverse. Why not take out the performances on flat decks and rework his average.

 

[JG22]

Has SMarsh batted at no6 before and done well?

 

[strewthcobber]

We're mainly picking the player in this role for their batting, so I don't see why the superior batsman isn't considered.
.

I don't think the selectors are doing that at all.

They want 2 genuine quicks and 2 spinners and then a real 5th bowling option and are prepared to sacrifice the top order to achieve that.

Moises (especially in India) has never shown he could take 1/30 off 10 overs in test cricket, while Marsh and Maxwell (in India) have shown they can.

I don't agree with it necessarily, but they're clearly not emphasising the 6th batsmens batting in their selection

 

[Damon_3388]

Why not take out the performances on flat decks and rework his average.

Because that would leave us with a sample size of two matches to judge him on, which isn't really of much value to anything.

SA is hardly a spinner's paradise, why would he go there?

It kind of is in recent times, based on Test and Shield results over the past couple of years from both Adelaide Oval and Glenelg Oval.

 

[Docker82]

If you want a good batsman and an average bowler you'd pick either Henriques or Cartwright. Very good batting numbers over the last 4-5 seasons. Both could play shield cricket without rolling their arm over.

Selectors clearly want a guy who is a better bowler. That's why we've gone with M.Marsh. Faulkner would be another example of slightly better than a number eight but not good enough for the top six type. Not sure either would get regular shield games if they didn't bowl (OK playing for Tasmania probably saves Faulkner) but would walk into shield sides as bowlers and wouldn't disgrace themselves batting at eight and bowling first change at test level IMO.

For spinning all rounders Head and to a lesser extent Maxwell (can actually spin it on a turning track, which Head hasn't proven he can do) are batting first all rounders. If you're relying on them to get many wickets you're in trouble. Likewise if you are expecting 40 runs out of Agar every innings then you're also in trouble even if he is a better bowler than the other two.

We don't have the luxury of a Jacques Kallis. We almost need to sacrifice a bit of batting ability for bowling ability or vice versa. I feel it'll be a constant debate for a few years yet.

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[G Mus]

Shaun Marsh top scored in the intra squad match

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Yeah but he's scored about 400 of those runs after the team was selected.

After Sri Lanka, he's probably that relieved that he's not been sent on the career burner that is a Test tour of India, that he's now seeing the ball like a beachball.

 

[eddiesmith]

The other issue with Henriques was he broke down in his last fc game before BBL and may not have even started bowling again when squad was chosen? Be a massive risk to take him

 

[Phone]

Frankly I'm surprised Henriques has resumed bowling for this season.