Review Saints vs Cats review

[sunny3193]

I think that nails it imo.

I can see the kids having potential, but you're effectively playing 2 or 3 players down on any given day.

There is a fork in the road this year... do we push for finals or continue to blood kids?

Don't think we can have it both ways.

Maybe you play the stronger bodies like Sav and Koby? And let the others develop at Sandy.

Unfortunately, given the standard at Sandringham, I doubt whether it will fast track their (or anyone's really) development.
I've been of the opinion for some time that our mids are an immature group.
We can all see the green shoots: Ross has continued to grow (I'd almost say he has come of age), Steele has shown us something, so too Acres, Gresham and Dunstan.
But there is still a long, long way to go.
Perhaps that is one reason why the TOG %'s are so spread. I mean 4 positions and 6 mids = 67% game time (everything else being equal). A great way to spread the development.
Maybe Richo is of the same opinion.
In fact, given our trading last year, I'm certain of it.
I certainly think he is disappointed that they have not come on as we all hoped.
To fast track their development, while still being competitive, is not mutually exclusive; provided we have a game plan that can achieve both goals.
Which is kind of where my thinking is heading.
Ultimately, I don't think we do.
We have a game plan that allows us to be competitive against middle ladder teams, but can be exposed easily as the Cats demonstrated.
There's no easy way around this, like Carlton showed on the weekend, the only way to get better is invest time and therefore games into the mid's education.
Our mid group reminds me a lot of the Swans circa 2009-2011.
And that turned out well for them.
It just seems that this is one area of the game that has not come on as we'd hoped.
I guess all of that means that we share a similar view.

 

[sverik25]

my issue isnt the draft or recruitment. its the development. we've gone to the well enough and have given us enough opportunity to find more than we have

the development system has to be questioned

That's what I'm saying. Comparing us with a club that has had relatively similar picks in the draft (because the draft is important in terms of the potential of the players available at your pick) and then seeing how they've gone development wise to see how we stack up.

I don't think the development situation is as bad as you've made out (it doesn't look great sure), but I'm open to a comparison to illustrate the point.

What's important to remember is it's still only 5 rounds into the season. The teams we've lost to will probably play finals, plus Geelong look like a top 4 side, and we've beaten the teams we were really expected to. Where does that leave us? Probably just outside finals. It's still early to be making such big calls though and writing players off.

If it gets to the end of the season and players like Billings and Dunstan still aren't firing then some serious questions need to be asked, but it's still early and a lot can change.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Unfortunately, given the standard at Sandringham, I doubt whether it will fast track their (or anyone's really) development.
I've been of the opinion for some time that our mids are an immature group.
We can all see the green shoots: Ross has continued to grow (I'd almost say he has come of age), Steele has shown us something, so too Acres, Gresham and Dunstan.
But there is still a long, long way to go.
Perhaps that is one reason why the TOG %'s are so spread. I mean 4 positions and 6 mids = 67% game time (everything else being equal). A great way to spread the development.
Maybe Richo is of the same opinion.
In fact, given our trading last year, I'm certain of it.
I certainly think he is disappointed that they have not come on as we all hoped.
To fast track their development, while still being competitive, is not mutually exclusive; provided we have a game plan that can achieve both goals.
Which is kind of where my thinking is heading.
Ultimately, I don't think we do.
We have a game plan that allows us to be competitive against middle ladder teams, but can be exposed easily as the Cats demonstrated.
There's no easy way around this, like Carlton showed on the weekend, the only way to get better is invest time and therefore games into the mid's education.
Our mid group reminds me a lot of the Swans circa 2009-2011.
And that turned out well for them.
It just seems that this is one area of the game that has not come on as we'd hoped.
I guess all of that means that we share a similar view.

WRT to the midfield, perhaps Richo's backed the wrong horse & invested too heavily in developing too few? Dunstan has been given so much opportunity to be part of the midfield rotations whereas others have been given very limited opportunity & as such we are now finding we lack any depth in the midfield.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I haven't got a regular seat so we have been siting up the top in GA and you get a pretty good idea of how much running our players do during games from up there. Bruce would run midfield type distances and members was too this week. I reckon Membery is probably having to run so much he can't get his legs to kick straight. we literally run ever one of our players back to sure up defence and once we win the ball we start peeling off at top speed back to give options.

Guys like Bruce have sprinted to defence then turned around sprinted to outside defensive 50, stop to give options, once not needed there peel another kick back or sprint forward to give a marking target up front. We don't have enough quality in our midfield to help out defence on their own so need guys from the front half to get back too.

Bruce had a great season when he could just stay up front and run leads.

For heaven's sake we have to find an alternative to Bruce in the ruck. He's not very good at it and it stuffs up the rest of his game. Give Gilbert a go at least.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

- Longer worked hard yesterday and he got involved at ground level about as much as he could. But another game with only one mark and no around the ground presence. If you want to criticise Hickey then that's fine, but if Hickey's not the answer, then we may have to open up to the idea that it is possible we have five ruckmen on our list and none of them may be good enough.

In all the Hickey/Longer back and forth on our board, I think you may be the most on the money with the bolded above. It might be tough for us to admit, but an area we thought we were well stocked in is turning into an area where each ruckman has their own respective strengths but ultimately none are good enough to hold down a starting spot on their own. It's a tough position to be in.

 

[lewdogs]

didnt the club say we would be top 4 in 2018?

Why the hell can't we be top 4 next year? Honestly the doomsdaying after each loss is so tiresome. We were in that match up to our eyeballs until the last quarter - no one is excusing the fadeout but you'd think we'd just been flogged by a mediocre team.

We have identified the issues with mids, we don't have enough good ones. But thankfully we are in a position to address that over the upcoming offseason. We have the makings of a good midfield. Ross, Steven, Newnes, Steele, Acres, Billings, maybe Sinclair and Gresham going forward in there. Add a gun to that midfield and it starts to look very tasty.

We need to be patient and at least focus on some of the positives. Melting after each loss doesn't help.

 

[StCicatriz]

Why the hell can't we be top 4 next year? Honestly the doomsdaying after each loss is so tiresome. We were in that match up to our eyeballs until the last quarter - no one is excusing the fadeout but you'd think we'd just been flogged by a mediocre team.

We have identified the issues with mids, we don't have enough good ones. But thankfully we are in a position to address that over the upcoming offseason. We have the makings of a good midfield. Ross, Steven, Newnes, Steele, Acres, Billings, maybe Sinclair and Gresham going forward in there. Add a gun to that midfield and it starts to look very tasty.

We need to be patient and at least focus on some of the positives. Melting after each loss doesn't help.

where did i say we couldnt be a top 4 side in 2018?

my comment was in reply to this:
"Seriously, people believed the hype that we were a certain top 8 team and we would be top 4 in 2018."

if the club has said we will be top 4 in 2018, you cant then have a crack at people for "believing the hype". thats not believing the hype, its holding the club accountable to what they've communicated to the public

 

[austinnn]

I rate Stevens very highly and wanted him before he came to us, but if he can't get a game at the moment when we don't have Armo playing and guys like Dunstan not performing he's considered a fair way back. We knew he was a proven mid and he did come straight in.

Freeman is only a bonus if he plays now. He's played a couple of half games in the VFL in his whole career, I would think if he doesn't play seniors this year it's pretty much a fail.

I'm impatient and so pissed off looking at the way the Cats can just perpetually stay up while we wallow.

Come come gringo. Stevens has only been match fit for a week. It was certainly 50/50 on whether he should have played seniors against Geelong, but the fact that he didn't isn't a reflection on him, more on reluctance to make wholesale changes and to give a last chance to underperforming roleplayers. He'll get plenty of game time this year, the sooner the better IMO, but i think the coaches move in 4 game blocks or something.

Freeman is still coming back, stop saying he's a bust just to protect your fragile expectations. We all knew this would be the case, I don't know why you're acting like it's a complete surprise.

I think you need to qualify your rumour about Paddy.

Since I'm here, please allow me to mouth off:

Dunstan was touted as the next Lenny, now he's even struggling to be the next Clint Jones. He lost a lot of weight in his second year(?) after he went on a gluten-free diet, but looked lightweight and fragile for a while. Now people are saying he's too heavy again. He was routed as a leader when he came to the club but leaders take games by the scruff of their necks; hope he re-learns how to do that in the VFL.

Steele was a great get, but he's a youngster who was on the fringe at GWS, so he is just another piece of the puzzle, not the last piece.

For people saying that Longer did better in the ruck than Hickey, please don't forget that this may also be due to his little buddy Steven being back in the team; remember the Hickey-Steven synergy of last year? However, I'm still hopeful that Billy can be our Mummy long-term. I have no idea how Mummy was around the ground, i know he kicked some goals. Can Billy really be happy with his game? Hope he can give more or he's got no right trying to take Hickey's spot.

Everyone is starting to wonder if Richo & co are as good as we thought - including me. I hope we don't make any rash judgements, my feeling is he'll finish the year strongly. But we're questioning the forwards coaching, the mids coaching, the strategy, the game-time reactivity, the preseason conditioning, even selection. I hope our coaches are also posing these questions.

I still think we'll win around 12 games and scrape into finals in a pretty even year. It's been a shocking disappointing start, but it's a year of consolidation for us and a lot of other teams are developing like we did last year, so not entirely unexpected. I think we're on course, regardless of a couple of setbacks.

Overall though, we're looking a bit ordinary right now and it's made a lot of us anxious. I think we just need to get on a roll again:

Hawks in Tassie
Giants @ Etihad Friday night
Blues @ Etihad
Swans @ Etihad
Doggies @ Etihad (indigenous round)
Bye

Hmmmm.

 

[Saint Watto]

Yes, but his contracts haven't been renewed. Richo's career at many-if-not-all clubs follows a very similar trajectory: they hire him during a development phase, the development phase stagnates and he "doesn't have his contract renewed", they come out the next year and play finals, often ultimately playing Grand Finals within 2 years of him leaving.

That scenario sounds very much like our friends from the West side of Melb.

 

[CursingFijian]

"Well, I think it's been similar to most of our games, in that the opposition were in control for big parts of the game. We really respect the way they play. And they're a dangerous team. They're going to beat a lot of teams this year. So, with that in mind, it makes sense that they were going to have their moments in the game. You know, more than that, they were well and truly on top of us. So we were good enough to hang in there when they had the momentum and ran out the game really well, but it was far from a complete performance from us. But the opposition should get a fair degree of credit there too" - Chris Scott's opening words in his post game press conference.

Sounds to me like they were expecting a tough game and acknowledged that they got one! Any talk about throwing out the game plan is premature in my opinion. We just need to develop (or recruit) the cattle that can execute it for four quarters.

Interestingly Scott was asked what he thought of the fact that 6 of 8 free kicks awarded to them in the first were for head high contact. His verbatim response "My observation of St Kilda in particular is that they are very aggressive in the tackle, and when you approach the ball carrier with that sort of velocity, it's easy to get a little bit wrong. Is it unusual? Yeah."

Games like these are getting harder to watch because I am so hopeful nowadays. But let's look at it in perspective. We pushed the league leaders in to the last quarter, and it took a pretty special effort from a genuine gun (Selwood) to bring them home. We have every right to be disappointed but lets not get overly angry. This Geelong team is very different to last years, and we are short a couple of key personnel.

Jack Steven straightened us up beautifully, and showed no signs that the punctured lung would limit him. For those that are interested there is some debate as to whether pulmonary edema (water on the lungs) can be caused by collisions in non-water sports high performance athletes, and I wonder whether Jack might have developed a case of that, and having them drained may allow him to return to his best. In the post game presser, Scott said that he was best on ground in the first half, and they moved their best runner (Blicavs) onto him in an effort to dampen his output.

Ross and Roberton continue to shine. There were moments when Ross just seemed to slow up, assess his options, and deliver beautifully by foot. Reminded me of Sam Mitchell for the Eagles in that last quarter this year. And Roberton is tremendously important for us now in terms of rebound transition, often using the corridor beautifully. He had 24 kicks to 4 handballs at 75% efficiency.

Carlisle and Brown are a formidable defence, especially against the long bomb to a key forward in a pack. Honestly, I am completely de-stressed when I see the long bomb in from opposition teams now. The chaos that ensues when the ball gets to ground close to our goal is nerve wracking though! We marked the pill 10 times from 52 entries. Frustrating right? Well Geelong got 14 from 65 entries, so we're at the level defensively.

For the Billy Longer knockers, Chris Scott, spoke in his post game presser about how they instructed Blicavs to run him ragged, because they felt he was dominating the ruck early. It's no wonder he ran out of puff in his first game back. There was more to like than not like in my opinion. I can distinctly recall a centre bounce where Bruce provided no contest at all. Stepped away and to the side of it completely (he did get the clearance though I think). But my point is that I don't think he is enjoying it all that much.

As for how we move forward, we know we have two too many passengers every week at the moment. McCartin and Billngs in round 3, Dunstan and Long last week. Long and Gresham this week. If we dropped Long back to the VFL and brought Hickey in we would be very competitive at every ruck. Bruce would be available to get higher up the ground if needed as a marking target, and should have more zip in the forward 50. If two rucks translates into more clearances, the mids would also be better off, because they wouldn't have to run hard in defence BEFORE having to stream hard the other way in attack as much. We know Hickey can clunk the ball, and he is a very good tackle so he could also help in defence when momentum is not with us.

So...

OUT: Dunstan, Gresham, Long
IN: Stevens, Lonie, Hickey

 

[atlaser]

In: Stevens, Sinclair
Managed: Long, dunstan

Dunstan is still riding his 2014 wave, just not been good enough the last two weeks and Stevens needs to come in. Long was really quiet, Richo needs to contain his massive boner for him and let him string some games together for Sandy. Thought Longer did ok especially in the first half, but rubbish outside of ruck contests. Best shown when Blicavs just got him out of the way and took an easy mark. Give him a crack against the hawks next week, he should play well against them. Gresham was ordinary but should stay in, it's better for everyone if he can bounce back next week in the 1s instead of the 2s.

 

[atlaser]

Nothing I hate more than losing to that c*mstain of a football club. Today has ruined me... I'm in a world of hurt and can't shake it. F***ing Joel Selwood the protected species even cops free kicks when he is taken high by his own bloody teammate! (First quarter)
Can someone tell me why Rooey had to give it back to Gilbert when he had a shot 30 out to get within a goal? Completely crushed our momentum! I could go on.. the Mackie 50 for absolutely nothing!
But what gripes me probably even more than all that is the fact that some oxygen thiefs on here keep calling for the heads of our young talented players. How on earth are we ment to ever win a flag if we don't play the likes of Billings, Paddy and Gresham?
4 pages or more of the sh** when fringe players like Weller have been absolutely shocking and previously Savage... but yer nah let's ignore that and call for Greshams head. So so backwards some of you!

On SM-G935F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Best meltdown of the year, i love it

 

[Diehard Saint]

"Well, I think it's been similar to most of our games, in that the opposition were in control for big parts of the game. We really respect the way they play. And they're a dangerous team. They're going to beat a lot of teams this year. So, with that in mind, it makes sense that they were going to have their moments in the game. You know, more than that, they were well and truly on top of us. So we were good enough to hang in there when they had the momentum and ran out the game really well, but it was far from a complete performance from us. But the opposition should get a fair degree of credit there too" - Chris Scott's opening words in his post game press conference.

Sounds to me like they were expecting a tough game and acknowledged that they got one! Any talk about throwing out the game plan is premature in my opinion. We just need to develop (or recruit) the cattle that can execute it for four quarters.

Interestingly Scott was asked what he thought of the fact that 6 of 8 free kicks awarded to them in the first were for head high contact. His verbatim response "My observation of St Kilda in particular is that they are very aggressive in the tackle, and when you approach the ball carrier with that sort of velocity, it's easy to get a little bit wrong. Is it unusual? Yeah."

Games like these are getting harder to watch because I am so hopeful nowadays. But let's look at it in perspective. We pushed the league leaders in to the last quarter, and it took a pretty special effort from a genuine gun (Selwood) to bring them home. We have every right to be disappointed but lets not get overly angry. This Geelong team is very different to last years, and we are short a couple of key personnel.

Jack Steven straightened us up beautifully, and showed no signs that the punctured lung would limit him. For those that are interested there is some debate as to whether pulmonary edema (water on the lungs) can be caused by collision based non-water sports in high performance athletes, and I wonder whether Jack might have developed a case of that. In the post game presser, Scott said that he was best on ground in the first half, and they moved their best runner (Blicavs) onto him in an effort to dampen his output.

Ross and Roberton continue to shine. There were moments when Ross just seemed to slow up, assess his options, and deliver beautifully by foot. Reminded me of Sam Mitchell for the Eagles in that last quarter this year. And Roberton is tremendously important for us now in terms of rebound transition, often using the corridor beautifully. He had 24 kicks to 4 handballs at 75% efficiency.

Carlisle and Brown are a formidable defence, especially against the long bomb to a key forward in a pack. Honestly, I am completely de-stressed when I see the long bomb in from opposition teams now. The chaos that ensues when the ball gets to ground close to our goal is nerve wracking though! We marked the pill 10 times from 52 entries. Frustrating right? Well Geelong got 14 from 65 entries, so we're at the level defensively.

For the Billy Longer knockers, Chris Scott, spoke in his post game presser about how they instructed Blicavs to run him ragged, because they felt he was dominating the ruck early. It's no wonder he ran out of puff in his first game back. There was more to like than not like in my opinion. I can distinctly recall a centre bounce where Bruce provided no contest at all. Stepped away and to the side of it completely (he did get the clearance though I think). But my point is that I don't think he is enjoying it all that much.

As for how we move forward, we know we have two too many passengers every week at the moment. McCartin and Billngs in round 3, Dunstan and Long last week. Long and Gresham this week. If we dropped Long back to the VFL and brought Hickey in we would be very competitive at every ruck. Bruce would be available to get higher up the ground if needed as a marking target, and should have more zip in the forward 50. If two rucks translates into more clearances, the mids would also be better off, because they wouldn't have to run hard in defence BEFORE having to stream hard the other way in attack as much. We know Hickey can clunk the ball, and he is a very good tackle so he could also help in defence when momentum is not with us.

So...

OUT: Dunstan, Gresham, Long
IN: Stevens, Lonie, Hickey

Not sure about the two rucks playing, ( although I really dislike Bruce doing it) but a lot of VERY well - made points here.

 

[CursingFijian]

Not sure about the two rucks playing, ( although I really dislike Bruce doing it) but a lot of VERY well - made points here.

I think we are all unsure about the two rucks playing. I think though that if Hickey came back in as second ruck,his output would be greater than Long. And Lonie in for Gresham would also lift our output from a pressure perspective, and should allow Minchington to get some midfield time.

But I'm with you. It's not a sure thing. I definitely feel it's worth a try though to see what impact it has on clearances and Bruce's output.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sunny3193]

I should have let those St bedes ******s beat him up

Ungrateful **** that Riewoldt

The Edgy.
Bundy and Coke
St Bedes.
Hmmm.
Got a Labore et Honore tat on your right buttock?

 

[gringo2011]

Come come gringo. Stevens has only been match fit for a week. It was certainly 50/50 on whether he should have played seniors against Geelong, but the fact that he didn't isn't a reflection on him, more on reluctance to make wholesale changes and to give a last chance to underperforming roleplayers. He'll get plenty of game time this year, the sooner the better IMO, but i think the coaches move in 4 game blocks or something.

Freeman is still coming back, stop saying he's a bust just to protect your fragile expectations. We all knew this would be the case, I don't know why you're acting like it's a complete surprise.

I think you need to qualify your rumour about Paddy.

Since I'm here, please allow me to mouth off:

Dunstan was touted as the next Lenny, now he's even struggling to be the next Clint Jones. He lost a lot of weight in his second year(?) after he went on a gluten-free diet, but looked lightweight and fragile for a while. Now people are saying he's too heavy again. He was routed as a leader when he came to the club but leaders take games by the scruff of their necks; hope he re-learns how to do that in the VFL.

Steele was a great get, but he's a youngster who was on the fringe at GWS, so he is just another piece of the puzzle, not the last piece.

For people saying that Longer did better in the ruck than Hickey, please don't forget that this may also be due to his little buddy Steven being back in the team; remember the Hickey-Steven synergy of last year? However, I'm still hopeful that Billy can be our Mummy long-term. I have no idea how Mummy was around the ground, i know he kicked some goals. Can Billy really be happy with his game? Hope he can give more or he's got no right trying to take Hickey's spot.

Everyone is starting to wonder if Richo & co are as good as we thought - including me. I hope we don't make any rash judgements, my feeling is he'll finish the year strongly. But we're questioning the forwards coaching, the mids coaching, the strategy, the game-time reactivity, the preseason conditioning, even selection. I hope our coaches are also posing these questions.

I still think we'll win around 12 games and scrape into finals in a pretty even year. It's been a shocking disappointing start, but it's a year of consolidation for us and a lot of other teams are developing like we did last year, so not entirely unexpected. I think we're on course, regardless of a couple of setbacks.

Overall though, we're looking a bit ordinary right now and it's made a lot of us anxious. I think we just need to get on a roll again:

Hawks in Tassie
Giants @ Etihad Friday night
Blues @ Etihad
Swans @ Etihad
Doggies @ Etihad (indigenous round)
Bye

Hmmmm.

I got told some inside info in strict confidence. Dempster offered a job outside footy and was definitely weighing his future. It wasn't a football issue at all which was a relief to me. Apparently Paddy was told he was over weight not working hard enough and would be traded out if he doesn't start pulling his finger out. Apparently he was read the riot act and was pretty pissed off as you would expect.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think we are all unsure about the two rucks playing. I think though that if Hickey came back in as second ruck,his output would be greater than Long. And Lonie in for Gresham would also lift our output from a pressure perspective, and should allow Minchington to get some midfield time.

But I'm with you. It's not a sure thing. I definitely feel it's worth a try though to see what impact it has on clearances and Bruce's output.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You don't think we'd be too tall though? And a little slow?
I'd rather see Sinclair than Lonie at the mo.

 

[StFly]

So, the Cats are North in effect.

North play well, are there and there abouts, then when challenged freak out and drop the pill more often than not.
Cats play well, are there and there abouts, then when challenged wait until the end and put the foot down.

8 goal to 1 final quarter, you're an idiot if you expect the cats to sustain that sort of finish to games for the season and when it matters, they're what? +160 odd in last quarters for the past 4 rounds, or almost 7 goals a quarter. Eventually there will come a time when the Cats put the foot down and hit nothing but air, no pedal, they wore it out, and they'll falter, when they do, there better be a plan B or they'll drop like a sack of spuds.

So, by and large we won, good game by all, with some pieces (ie Long was poor) and some different decisions (ie, spotting up a lead instead of miskicking) in the heat it's a more comfortable win.

Now the issue is of course that it didn't happen and the Cats did kick those 8 goals to drop our pants on national TV, so what went wrong to allow that to happen and rob us of our hard fought victory, having been the better side in the match?

• Conditioning; We couldn't run the game out when it lifted. The Cats found space and run and carry and we lagged behind, they spread, they set up quicker, they fatigued less and we panicked.
• Collapses; We lost the plot, both in structures and in mentality towards the end. You can still run games out, but you can't when 3/4 of the ground is empty except for the opposition and you are being outrun and outgunned. Likewise you can't be a part of the structure if like say Carlisle you are punching on and wrestling at true CHB whilst play goes on 20m away closer to goal, or you can't impact the slow play if you sit 15m off your opponent guarding space when you should be manning up.
• Be a man, how to play with a ball; My other title to make it trip C's would have been censored, sigh. Anyway, during the match I noticed that that handballs where often behind the target causing half steps, half jumps and otherwise loss of momentum which hurried disposal, likewise disposal ended with missed targets by foot, wider leads, or direct turnovers, then we just kicked and hoped or handballed and hoped, and as we were shaded this became worse and worse. Then there's still conversion issues in front of goal which are hmmm. Bruce from 25? No. Bruce from 75? Yes, wait what?

I mean sure you can isolate and say that Longer had a great game; for the initial tap, and the initial follow up contest (handball heavy), but around the ground he was putrid (no marks, no kicks, no bingo). Or that Long even played the game as the man no one really remembers seeing or that Dunstan was poor and well beaten, but in a different match they may be better, they may carry, they may lift.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I rate Stevens very highly and wanted him before he came to us, but if he can't get a game at the moment when we don't have Armo playing and guys like Dunstan not performing he's considered a fair way back. We knew he was a proven mid and he did come straight in.

Freeman is only a bonus if he plays now. He's played a couple of half games in the VFL in his whole career, I would think if he doesn't play seniors this year it's pretty much a fail.

I'm impatient and so pissed off looking at the way the Cats can just perpetually stay up while we wallow.

He is not considered a fair way back, he is considered to have had sever food poisoning then got knocked out in his first game back.
Take some pills or something.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I got told some inside info in strict confidence. Dempster offered a job outside footy and was definitely weighing his future. It wasn't a football issue at all which was a relief to me. Apparently Paddy was told he was over weight not working hard enough and would be traded out if he doesn't start pulling his finger out. Apparently he was read the riot act and was pretty pissed off as you would expect.

Well so much for strictest confidence now you've posted it here

If it is true that Paddy was given a the kick up the bum and read the riot act, then maybe he needed it. I'd say getting pissed off isn't the reaction we need from him. Nor should we expect it.

 

[VDS66]

Unfortunately, given the standard at Sandringham, I doubt whether it will fast track their (or anyone's really) development.
I've been of the opinion for some time that our mids are an immature group.
We can all see the green shoots: Ross has continued to grow (I'd almost say he has come of age), Steele has shown us something, so too Acres, Gresham and Dunstan.
But there is still a long, long way to go.
Perhaps that is one reason why the TOG %'s are so spread. I mean 4 positions and 6 mids = 67% game time (everything else being equal). A great way to spread the development.
Maybe Richo is of the same opinion.
In fact, given our trading last year, I'm certain of it.
I certainly think he is disappointed that they have not come on as we all hoped.
To fast track their development, while still being competitive, is not mutually exclusive; provided we have a game plan that can achieve both goals.
Which is kind of where my thinking is heading.
Ultimately, I don't think we do.
We have a game plan that allows us to be competitive against middle ladder teams, but can be exposed easily as the Cats demonstrated.
There's no easy way around this, like Carlton showed on the weekend, the only way to get better is invest time and therefore games into the mid's education.
Our mid group reminds me a lot of the Swans circa 2009-2011.
And that turned out well for them.
It just seems that this is one area of the game that has not come on as we'd hoped.
I guess all of that means that we share a similar view.

Get where you're going...

Thing is we deliberately went after kpps instead of mids so here's hoping we address it.

I agree that we got Stevens because he is a mature body, and it's why players like Gilbert get a game.

Hard to say about development tine lines, though. Rich did say that Minch didn't have consistency, so who knows.

We are 3 years into a 5 year plan so not finished by any stretch.

 

[VDS66]

Well so much for strictest confidence now you've posted it here

If it is true that Paddy was given a the kick up the bum and read the riot act, then maybe he needed it. I'd say getting pissed off isn't the reaction we need from him. Nor should we expect it.

That explains all the Krispy Kreme boxes in his rubbish bin...

 

[VDS66]

So, the Cats are North in effect.

North play well, are there and there abouts, then when challenged freak out and drop the pill more often than not.
Cats play well, are there and there abouts, then when challenged wait until the end and put the foot down.

8 goal to 1 final quarter, you're an idiot if you expect the cats to sustain that sort of finish to games for the season and when it matters, they're what? +160 odd in last quarters for the past 4 rounds, or almost 7 goals a quarter. Eventually there will come a time when the Cats put the foot down and hit nothing but air, no pedal, they wore it out, and they'll falter, when they do, there better be a plan B or they'll drop like a sack of spuds.

So, by and large we won, good game by all, with some pieces (ie Long was poor) and some different decisions (ie, spotting up a lead instead of miskicking) in the heat it's a more comfortable win.

Now the issue is of course that it didn't happen and the Cats did kick those 8 goals to drop our pants on national TV, so what went wrong to allow that to happen and rob us of our hard fought victory, having been the better side in the match?

• Conditioning; We couldn't run the game out when it lifted. The Cats found space and run and carry and we lagged behind, they spread, they set up quicker, they fatigued less and we panicked.
• Collapses; We lost the plot, both in structures and in mentality towards the end. You can still run games out, but you can't when 3/4 of the ground is empty except for the opposition and you are being outrun and outgunned. Likewise you can't be a part of the structure if like say Carlisle you are punching on and wrestling at true CHB whilst play goes on 20m away closer to goal, or you can't impact the slow play if you sit 15m off your opponent guarding space when you should be manning up.
• Be a man, how to play with a ball; My other title to make it trip C's would have been censored, sigh. Anyway, during the match I noticed that that handballs where often behind the target causing half steps, half jumps and otherwise loss of momentum which hurried disposal, likewise disposal ended with missed targets by foot, wider leads, or direct turnovers, then we just kicked and hoped or handballed and hoped, and as we were shaded this became worse and worse. Then there's still conversion issues in front of goal which are hmmm. Bruce from 25? No. Bruce from 75? Yes, wait what?

I mean sure you can isolate and say that Longer had a great game; for the initial tap, and the initial follow up contest (handball heavy), but around the ground he was putrid (no marks, no kicks, no bingo). Or that Long even played the game as the man no one really remembers seeing or that Dunstan was poor and well beaten, but in a different match they may be better, they may carry, they may lift.

Very impressive post. Not many posters know how to use bullet points. Nice work.

 

[VDS66]

I think we are all unsure about the two rucks playing. I think though that if Hickey came back in as second ruck,his output would be greater than Long. And Lonie in for Gresham would also lift our output from a pressure perspective, and should allow Minchington to get some midfield time.

But I'm with you. It's not a sure thing. I definitely feel it's worth a try though to see what impact it has on clearances and Bruce's output.


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We should just concede the ruck and leave Bruce out of it. Nominate the closest player and tackle the ruckman if he grabs it from the ball up or throw in.

 

[sonnywalters]

So having a hissy fit on an internet forum will help us beat Geelong....

ok

No. But being Pollyannas and back slappers won't help us beating them either

I am just after some realistic analysis rather than teenage fan noise stuff about how awesome we are along with million excuses about umpires age of players Selwood ducking toe pokes etc etc etc etc. Anything else but facing the fact our club might be full of idiots running the joint .