Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Aphrodite]

Can we shake anything out of the suns if we did a salary dump for GAJ so he is closer to Geelong


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NO!

 

[Malifice]

I think all fair minded people would have said that two firsts was too much to expect.

Picks 13 [which wound up being pick 15] and 18 [probably wind up being pick 20 or so] for a contracted Gibbs?

Actually sounds pretty fair.

 

[DangerousD]

Absolutely no-one !!!

You honestly wouldn't take that?
A possible pick 4 and 8 for Hopper, Kelly and 36 (In a supposed super draft)

 

[DangerousD]

Nope. We need to keep at least 1of our first picks for this year or next.

Why.

A draft pick is used to pick a good/great player. Does it matter whether that player comes via the draft or trade?

 

[HARKER]

Picks 13 [which wound up being pick 15] and 18 [probably wind up being pick 20 or so] for a contracted Gibbs?

Actually sounds pretty fair.

It does more so now and given Gibbs' form, but at the time it may have been a risk that the AFC board weren't prepared to take.....and I can't blame them.
They may yet regret it, but they had to make a decision and they just couldn't pull the trigger at the time.

It's all old news now and I don't blame them for not selling off 2 first rounders, but I do blame them for thinking they could put us over a barrel.

 

[Malifice]

It does more so now and given Gibbs' form, but at the time it may have been a risk that the AFC board weren't prepared to take.....and I can't blame them.
They may yet regret it, but they had to make a decision and they just couldn't pull the trigger at the time.

It's all old news now and I don't blame them for not selling off 2 first rounders, but I do blame them for thinking they could put us over a barrel.

If it goes down again this year, I would want their future 1st as a starting point.

 

[Stamos]

It does more so now and given Gibbs' form, but at the time it may have been a risk that the AFC board weren't prepared to take.....and I can't blame them.
They may yet regret it, but they had to make a decision and they just couldn't pull the trigger at the time.

It's all old news now and I don't blame them for not selling off 2 first rounders, but I do blame them for thinking they could put us over a barrel.

It was a fair price when they were trying to poach a contracted player with a 5 year, $3 million deal. It was obvious that they shat the bed at the time, it's just up in neon lights now.

 

[DangerousD]

You are quite right, it won't happen hence the reason why I see no point in salivating over the prospect or debating it ad-nauseum.

Keen to thrash out some trade deals but they have to be remotely plausible, not fantasy land stuff.

2 1st rounders and a 2nd? 1 top 5 (potentially to 3), 1 top 10 and a top 30 pick. Hopper out injured again is good for this targeting him.

 

[DangerousD]

If only 7 cuts this year then that says a lot about how well Bolton has fixed the team and improved the playing group we have.
I had Jones Graham and Daisy as delist but now happy for them to stay.
Wonder if Boek gets a few games and improves?

1. Army retires,
2. Palmer is playing well in VFL so no certainty to exit, plus contracted?
3. Gorringe may go if not contracted,
4&5. White and Buckley are useful depth but could be forced out due to needs,
6&7.KJ and JGM are playing well in VFL and young so may get another year as KP depth especially if Rowe is out for a while?
8&9. Gallucci and Korchek may also exit?
10. Sheehan?

The fact that Gorring, Buckley and KJ have not been sighted says a lot imo, Army as well. White has been a great servant but a lot of young players have gone past him. Thats 5 without factoring in Sheehan, Galluci or Korcheck.

Along with Harker, i don't see more than 7

 

[HARKER]

If it goes down again this year, I would want their future 1st as a starting point.

It was a fair price when they were trying to poach a contracted player with a 5 year, $3 million deal. It was obvious that they shat the bed at the time, it's just up in neon lights now.

Fair points and I am happy we stood our ground at the time, given what was on offer to us.
It was bold and it showed the football world that we won't buckle under heavy pressure and particularly pressure put upon the club in not-so-smart ways.

Gallucci may yet turn out to be a wonderful player, but right now Adelaide may be wondering about the 'what ifs' ....and they may continue to wonder.

No problems with Gibbs staying put and no single low-end first rounder will get him to Adelaide this year. Again.......well done SOS.

 

[LordLucifer]

Along with Harker, i don't see more than 7

I have 14 potential names and can mount a case for all of them being shown the door this year, I doubt it will be that high but there are plenty in the mix.

 

[Azzurro]

I have 14 potential names and can mount a case for all of them being shown the door this year, I doubt it will be that high but there are plenty in the mix.

Go on then, spill the beans! Rank them in order from most to least likely?

 

[LordLucifer]

Go on then, spill the beans! Rank them in order from most to least likely?

I listed them a little earlier in this thread, didn't put them in any order of importance though.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Why.

A draft pick is used to pick a good/great player. Does it matter whether that player comes via the draft or trade?

I wouldn't be giving our future first or this year's first for Hopper.

Kelly would need this year's first, next year's 2nd and a player/Casboult compo.

Hopper otoh, for our first next year would be crazy.

Inside word is we won't be giving away 2 first round picks either.

Gibbs is very likely to leave. If it eventuates then we will use what we get for him.

 

[HARKER]

Don't particularly care for the Rising Star award, but there's clearly a feel of a young 'destination club' happening right now.

From the outside it will be seen as a young club going places.......with the right coach......the right list manager........and a vastly improved culture.

Getting players to this club is going to be so much easier, given what we are throwing out. The build is simply perfect for now. May it remain so.

 

[Sector 7G]

I think all fair minded people would have said that two firsts was too much to expect.
The Premiership argument is valid to a point, but there are no guarantees attached to that either.

Risk vs reward and the first and a second may have seen it done. Anyway, Adelaides loss, but it is all a bit done and over with now.........until.....

I see SOS modelling his negotiation on Liam Neeson's Bryan Mills.
You think because we are tolerant, we are weak.Y our arrogance offends me . For that the price just went up 10%

 

[Metalcrusher]

Its a ****ing BEACON for the footy world Harks ...... It screams out LOOK at what this 18-22 year old list is going to do ........ LOOK at what we have done.

 

[DangerousD]

I have 14 potential names and can mount a case for all of them being shown the door this year, I doubt it will be that high but there are plenty in the mix.

If we were going in to the draft with multiple 1st and 2nd round picks id say the number would be more.

 

[DangerousD]

I wouldn't be giving our future first or this year's first for Hopper.

Kelly would need this year's first, next year's 2nd and a player/Casboult compo.

Hopper otoh, for our first next year would be crazy.

Inside word is we won't be giving away 2 first round picks either.

Gibbs is very likely to leave. If it eventuates then we will use what we get for him.

Agree, that i don't want to give our future 1st or this years 1st for Hopper in isolation. I would though offer this years 1st and next years plus more for the two of them.
FWIW i rate Hopper around 15 but hopefully we keep Gibbs.

 

[RattAttack]

Not a draft watcher myself, but keep hearing how poor this years crop of kids is.

If we win a few games on the way home and finish with say pick 5, I wouldn't be surprised to see us put that up for trade if it forms part of a deal for Kelly. Other than LDU, Fogarty and maybe Raynor I'm not sure about the quality of the rest.

Pick 5 will get GWS Brander and I think they will be very happy with that.

Adel- (in) Gibbs (out) Charlie Cameron and pick 18
GWS- (in) picks 5 and 18 (out) Kelly
Carl- (in) Kelly and Cameron (out) Gibbs and pick 5

 

[Old navy]

Talking footy just reported that Carlton and Saints have the most cap space banked, makes sense.
If we don't have one of the top 3 selections in this years draft, I'd be happy for us to trade it, for a young high end talent, if we do have a top 3 pick, Josh Kelly would be one of the few players I'd be happy to trade that pick for.

 

[Cliffords Blues]

We have too many Charlie Cameron types now.
Do not need more.
Though his 8-10 possessions a game could be handy

Our dream should be Kelly, Hopper and Zak Jones.
Midfield sorted.

 

[LordLucifer]

Getting players to this club is going to be so much easier, given what we are throwing out. The build is simply perfect for now. May it remain so.

Excellently surmised, it's also the main reason why I believe we won't be going for the big name messiah players on heavy contracts too. Picking off surplus players at other clubs who fill our needs & criteria coupled with sharp drafting choices has worked brilliantly so far for us and should continue well into the future.

 

[RoyalParade]

Its a ******* BEACON for the footy world Harks ...... It screams out LOOK at what this 18-22 year old list is going to do ........ LOOK at what we have done.

So much better than tanking.....

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Talking footy just reported that Carlton and Saints have the most cap space banked, makes sense.
If we don't have one of the top 3 selections in this years draft, I'd be happy for us to trade it, for a young high end talent, if we do have a top 3 pick, Josh Kelly would be one of the few players I'd be happy to trade that pick for.

If we have a top 3 pick, I'd be trying to offer next year's 1st + what we get for Gibbs.

2 scenarios I can see playing out:

1 - We have pick #3:

Cas gets us band 3 compo. Let's say it's pick #23.

Gibbs > Crows
McGovern + #23 > Eagles
#10 + #16 > Blues

#10 + #16 + 2018 1st > GWS
Kelly + Hopper > Blues
(Essentially ends up being #10 + 2018 1st for Kelly and #16 for Hopper)

Go to draft with #3 and whatever we have after that. Draft LDU, Fogarty or Rayner

We end up adding Kelly + Hopper + LDU

2 - We end up with pick #5

Things change a bit now. I've still got Cas netting us band 3 compo.

Gibbs trade stands.
Gibbs > Crows
McGovern + #23 > Eagles
#10 + #16 > Blues

#5 + #10 + #16 > GWS
Kelly + Hopper > Blues

We don't add as much to our midfield this year, but next year we will have a top 10 pick again and be able to pickup a quality player with it.

Come 2019 we throw the treasure chest at Shiel and get him to Carlton at all costs.

A midfield with Cripps + SPS + Kelly + Hopper + Shiel + LDU + Cuningham would monster the competition. Throw in our elite back line then there's Charlie + Jack + McKay up forward and we will be on the way to not only a single premiership, but most likely a new era Carlton dynasty.

SOS will make it happen!