List Mgmt. Re-Signing Jake Lever

[Cleric]

Two 1st's for an uncontracted 3rd tall would be nice but I doubt any Victorian club will come at that, and for the record Scharenberg was mentioned earlier in a steak knives context in any deal.

Was Trealor contracted? Was Omeara contracted?
Why do you think other teams can get true value but we cant? And just because someones a "third tall" doesnt mean shit. Whos worth more, Hartigan or Lever?

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

I feel like the Lever situation has moved a lot of posters here along the path of understanding how player salaries, salary caps and player movements will work under free agency.

Many posters are now understanding that, yes, we can keep Lever and McGovern by paying them big dollars, but doing so will mean that we may not be able to get the A-grade mid or two we need.

So it may actually be better to trade good players that you think you can cover in your team either for players in areas that you are weak in, or for draft picks to improve your team in the future. You can't have gun players all over the field unless they are all willing to take significant unders in order to stay together.

 

[Geoffa32]

I feel like the Lever situation has moved a lot of posters here along the path of understanding how player salaries, salary caps and player movements will work under free agency.

Many posters are now understanding that, yes, we can keep Lever and McGovern by paying them big dollars, but doing so will mean that we may not be able to get the A-grade mid or two we need.

So it may actually be better to trade good players that you think you can cover in your team either for players in areas that you are weak in, or for draft picks to improve your team in the future. You can't have gun players all over the field unless they are all willing to take significant unders in order to stay together.

Your latter point is exactly how Hawthorn and Geelong set up multiple Premierships.

Great players paid less than market value as they wanted to win a flag.

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[baldandbroke]

Was Trealor contracted? Was Omeara contracted?
Why do you think other teams can get true value but we cant? And just because someones a "third tall" doesnt mean shit. Whos worth more, Hartigan or Lever?

But you have to pay a lot more for the contracted ones or the current club can just say "Nope." (ie Gibbs).

 

[Cleric]

But you have to pay a lot more for the contracted ones or the current club can just say "Nope." (ie Gibbs).

Neither Omeara or Trealor were contracted.

 

[jo172]

Was Trealor contracted? Was Omeara contracted?
Why do you think other teams can get true value but we cant? And just because someones a "third tall" doesnt mean shit. Whos worth more, Hartigan or Lever?

Helps when you're at the bottom of the ladder and can neutralise the PSD threat

 

[StonesThrow]

One thing that annoys me about the Lever situation are the calls that he is just a 3rd tall. He's in his third year and is still relatively skinny so of course he's not ready to take on the big forwards one on one. He's not physically ready for it. That's not to say he won't be. I'm confident he'll become capable of it but even then the coaches might see more value in playing him as the floater anyway. Let's be honest, someone who can read the play that well in the air and show that much poise is worth a lot to a team.

 

[baldandbroke]

Neither Omeara or Trealor were contracted.

Yeah, sorry I was in my own little internal dialogue there of contracted vs uncontracted.

You are talking about what we would get for Lever, which I think will be substantial.

Most of the other players that have left have had asterisks next to them.

Who was the last Adelaide player that left that we got reamed on at the trade table? Gunstan? That was a bad one. We used the picks we got pretty badly too to make it feel even worse if I recall.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Wow at the peeps thinking his AA segment was positive for him staying.
Its round 18. There was no interest in progression with what he said. "When my manager comes back we can then start to look at things"
There wasnt any mention of Adelaide,.or any mention of getting a move on with the club with his contract. As I said, he will not sign before the end of the year, and looks more likely he has gone.
And his GF setting up a make up company is no indication of staying. She can pack up her make up kit and move back to Vic and start it up there.
The fact that he doesnt really talk about himself and the club moving forward with a contract is telling.

Great Post!
You'd think we haven't been through this before.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Your latter point is exactly how Hawthorn and Geelong set up multiple Premierships.

Great players paid less than market value as they wanted to win a flag.

The key, especially in Hawthorn's case, was winning that first flag with a young team before their list's market value started bursting at the seams.

Once they'd won something it was much easier to keep the group there to experience further success. For us and GWS it is still a speculative promise rather than a promise based on potential and proven recent history.

*If* we can get across the line this season it will become so, so, so, so much easier for us to retain our players in the future. Ironically it will be cheaper for us to retain our players if they win a flag than if they fail.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Not sure. Just idiots, I guess. Of course, that wasn't the real big one. The big one was agreeing to trade him for a second round pick if he chose to leave later.

In retrospect, wasn't the issue because we actually had written records of the arrangement?

 

[NikkiNoo]

But you have to pay a lot more for the contracted ones or the current club can just say "Nope." (ie Gibbs).

Or you can agree to pay the contracted player less and they still want to come, but if club they are contracted to says no, then the contracted club still has all the power.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

In retrospect, wasn't the issue because we actually had written records of the arrangement?

No, it was because we redirected club sponsorship dollars into Tippett's pocket

 

[TrainRoo32]

No, it was because we redirected club sponsorship dollars into Tippett's pocket

I get that.....
I'm saying the only way it was proven was because we were dumb enough to record it down somewhere?

 

[crowsup]

I get that.....
I'm saying the only way it was proven was because we were dumb enough to record it down somewhere?

That is correct. And, if people believe that does not go on with other teams, they are either stupid or at best naïve. Other teams have been smart enough to not mention the arrangement in a e-mail. Especially since what the VFL did to us because of it.

 

[Heafy83]

Your latter point is exactly how Hawthorn and Geelong set up multiple Premierships.

Great players paid less than market value as they wanted to win a flag.

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Also have the huge advantage of being a Victorian club were most AFL talent resides.

Letting go the Lyon's of the world is how you do it. Not staple pieces like Lever/McGovern.

 

[threefa9]

Think Lever is still staying, no way has his interviews been anything like Dangers.
Lever has said he wants to stay, he trusts the club and his manager, and that there is a contract. Dangerfield only said one thing "I haven't thought about it".

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I feel like the Lever situation has moved a lot of posters here along the path of understanding how player salaries, salary caps and player movements will work under free agency.

Many posters are now understanding that, yes, we can keep Lever and McGovern by paying them big dollars, but doing so will mean that we may not be able to get the A-grade mid or two we need.

So it may actually be better to trade good players that you think you can cover in your team either for players in areas that you are weak in, or for draft picks to improve your team in the future. You can't have gun players all over the field unless they are all willing to take significant unders in order to stay together.

Agreed. You need a decent spread of talent all the way down your list. You pay too much at the top end and you'll end up with an unbalanced side. Would also add that years of losing quality A-graders should have stamped out any feelings of centimentality we have towards our players. There is no reason to freak out about this sort of stuff. If we can lose Dangerfield and still be hanging around the top of the ladder, who gives a shit about Lever or McGovern? The only thing to be concerned about, is whether or not we get decent value for what we lose, and whether or not we can develop the players we trade/draft in.

 

[MarcusP2]

Or you can agree to pay the contracted player less and they still want to come, but if club they are contracted to says no, then the contracted club still has all the power.

I think he was talking about the payment to the club (picks, players), not the player.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I think he was talking about the payment to the club (picks, players), not the player.

But history proves otherwise on this front as well. Some have been over paid, some have been "unders" considered at the time because the two clubs work something out due to other reasons (family illness etc.) and some are difficult because some clubs overrate their own players *cough* Dodoro *cough*. SOS is now considered alongside Dodoro as one of the worst to deal with.

 

[Modra4PM]

Your latter point is exactly how Hawthorn and Geelong set up multiple Premierships.

Great players paid less than market value as they wanted to win a flag.

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Tex and Sloane have signed for unders, who else on the list do you think would buy in to this ? We are going to need a few more to do so it's looking like a tight squeeze.

 

[TrainRoo32]

That is correct. And, if people believe that does not go on with other teams, they are either stupid or at best naïve. Other teams have been smart enough to not mention the arrangement in a e-mail. Especially since what the VFL did to us because of it.

Wasn't CJudd paid around 300k per year by Visy and the AFL approved that?
Ridiculous, we are/were either really naive or just plain incompetent.

 

[chazwazza]

Wasn't CJudd paid around 300k per year by Visy and the AFL approved that?
Ridiculous, we are/were either really naive or just plain incompetent.

Take your pick-
Judd-Carlton-Pratt-VISY.
Cloke-Collingwood-Maguire-CH9.
Selwood-Geelong-Costa.
From my understanding EPP deals aren't meant to have any connection to the club.

 

[Red mist]

Take your pick-
Judd-Carlton-Pratt-VISY.
Cloke-Collingwood-Maguire-CH9.
Selwood-Geelong-Costa.
From my understanding EPP deals aren't meant to have any connection to the club.

Who would want to create a paper trail?

 

[chazwazza]

Who would want to create a paper trail?

Who needs a paper trail when there's direct personnel links