List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

[The Enemy Within]

It's amazing we still have people doubting Kelly's worth he is an "A" grader end of story he will be a saint in 2018 be grateful for a change we can lure such talent to our club.

 

[Mowman]

It's amazing we still have people doubting Kelly's worth he is an "A" grader end of story he will be a saint in 2018 be grateful for a change we can lure such talent to our club.

Couldn't agree more about him being A grade just wish i was as confident as you he will be Saint

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Your right he will only be 23 when the season kicks off and he may go on to become the player most posters think he will, then agin he might not.

I would like him a lot more if it was two first rounders for Kelly and another player, or one first plus a player.

I want as much talent in the door as possible and the current price for Kelly makes that very difficult to achieve.

Ward is a tough as they come imho and Shiel is a gun both would be our number one midfielder by a mile.

The club will do as they see fit and as per usual once they pull on the jumper I will cheer for them like a mad man.

We already have our own Cal Ward... his name is Jack Steele

No doubt Shiel would be our #1 target if he was available. But he's not.

It's a bit like saying that Nigel Lappin wouldn't have been worth pursuing because he played in a midfield with Voss & Black.

The actual cost for Kelly is an unknown. We're using Treloar as a base but you never know. Two top 10 picks after he was taken at #2 & has developed brilliantly isn't that bad a price. If they throw in a 2nd rounder then it's a very nice deal for us.

If they do have a crack at Dusty then maybe they will need to shed some more cap space & another player might be in the deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Snailspace13]

Y

word over here was they were asking wce for 1-2 first rounders, so they passed given the cost

YOU CANT BE SERIOUS

 

[Yawkey way]

Those stats are simply elite. No matter which way you want to cut it..

Excluding all relevant stats, he's still a game changer. I've watched a lot of GWS games ( I'm good mates with a senior exec there ) and my company is a sponsor. He's 22yo for crying out loud. There would only be a handful of people in recent history that have played this well in their 4th season.

Complete inside/outside player with 10yrs service to any club willing to pay the price. IMO is worth 2 good players in any list, therefore giving up 2 first round picks is completely justified.

Pay what he wants to get the deal done. Chances of securing a young player of this quality only happens once in a list generation.

Nobody disputes the fact that he is a very good young player.

All the rest is just guess work, Brereton loves this type of prediction he told us buddy could only get better after he kicked 100 plus in his 4th year hasn't kicked a ton since. As for him playing for ten years that is a big ask and nobody knows how his career will unfold.

 

[Yawkey way]

It's amazing we still have people doubting Kelly's worth he is an "A" grader end of story he will be a saint in 2018 be grateful for a change we can lure such talent to our club.

Sorry I just refuse to drink the cool aide, if we don't get him he will be over priced and over rated.

I remember the hard on people had for Rhys Mathieson, now it's Rhys who. I'm not comparing the two except for the level of enthusiasm, let's just wait and see how things play out.

 

[bird_man]

We could do this right up until trade period.

I have watched him closely in a number of games because we have an interest in him so I think I have a fair idea.

He is a stats machine, in the Hawks game I hardly noticed him and his stats were very good as they have been since in games where he was good but not great.

Yes he is young and may improve then again maybe he won't, he is also smaller than I would like. He's about 6 feet maybe a touch under and he is not a big build, he has muscled up and is big in the chest but I don't see him long term as anything other than an outside mid.

Match winner, he has fired in a couple of games probably less than billings and I'd still take Shiel and ward before him.

Funny hat you picked out just the Hawks game. Did you watch him in the Pies game? Or the Bombers game?

Shiel is 2 years older and isn't having the season Kelly is having. Ward is 27 FFS.

You say he's just a stats machine. Well against the Pies for his 36 touches, 17 were contested and he had 10 score involvements and went at 81%

Against the Bombers he went at 87% and had 12 score involvements!!

West Coast, kicked a goal, had 7 score involvements and went at 83%

Carlton, 29 touches, 76%, 9 score involvements

Kangas, 31 touches at 74%, 13 SCORE INVOLVEMENTS!!

Only a stat getter? Only fired in a couple of games? Less than Billings?

Nope.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

there's been a few rumours linking goldstein to us, which i find interesting. if true it implies we are looking at a ready made ruck that can possibly cover or atleast compete with longer whilst he really cements himself as a capable complete ruck, i.e. goes well in the ruck and around the ground

if its true on goldstein who is 30 next year, i hope we dont give up the world for him

'Investigating' a trade with goldstien could also mean were seeing what north could want from us to get goldy to gws. Or north could have made enquiries with 1 of our players and were seeing how we can work it into a trade for kelly to us.
To me the fact their making the huge dusty offer so public says they know their out of the Kelly race.

 

[andy_cav]

SEN and AFL Gameday running with the story that Dusty Martin's manager was seen at 6.30 this morning at Hawthorn facilities. Of course, could be completely unrelated to Dusty- I would think Ralph Carr probably represents some Hawthorn players. But you can imagine how the rumour mill will go into overdrive now over Dusty to Hawthorn...

 

[Strahany]

Y

YOU CANT BE SERIOUS

Norf list management

 

[Yawkey way]

Funny hat you picked out just the Hawks game. Did you watch him in the Pies game? Or the Bombers game?

Shiel is 2 years older and isn't having the season Kelly is having. Ward is 27 FFS.

You say he's just a stats machine. Well against the Pies for his 36 touches, 17 were contested and he had 10 score involvements and went at 81%

Against the Bombers he went at 87% and had 12 score involvements!!

West Coast, kicked a goal, had 7 score involvements and went at 83%

Carlton, 29 touches, 76%, 9 score involvements

Kangas, 31 touches at 74%, 13 SCORE INVOLVEMENTS!!

Only a stat getter? Only fired in a couple of games? Less than Billings?

Nope.

Do you watch the games or just read that stats?.

You said he was a match winner or words to that effect and I replied that in my opinion he may have been a couple of times which imho is less than billings. I know when a player has little impact on the game but kills it in the stats then he knows how to get a cheap possession.

You seem to love stats, how many goals has he kicked this year. I'm sure you already know it's not a lot for a guy who gets the ball as much as he does and is such a match winner.

 

[Longmembrey]

Do you watch the games or just read that stats?.

You said he was a match winner or words to that effect and I replied that in my opinion he may have been a couple of times which imho is less than billings. I know when a player has little impact on the game but kills it in the stats then he knows how to get a cheap possession.

You seem to love stats, how many goals has he kicked this year. I'm sure you already know it's not a lot for a guy who gets the ball as much as he does and is such a match winner.

Is J Selwood a match winner? How many goals has he kicked this year?

 

[Diehard Saint]

there's been a few rumours linking goldstein to us, which i find interesting. if true it implies we are looking at a ready made ruck that can possibly cover or atleast compete with longer whilst he really cements himself as a capable complete ruck, i.e. goes well in the ruck and around the ground

if its true on goldstein who is 30 next year, i hope we dont give up the world for him

Why would we get him? Surely we want to play Longer as much as possible? Would we get GOldstein to sit in the vfl waiting in case Longer gets injured?
Seems odd to me.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Is J Selwood a match winner? How many goals has he kicked this year?

6 goals and 2756 ducks

 

[Joffaboy]

Sorry I just refuse to drink the cool aide, if we don't get him he will be over priced and over rated.

I remember the hard on people had for Rhys Mathieson, now it's Rhys who. I'm not comparing the two except for the level of enthusiasm, let's just wait and see how things play out.

Are comparing Kelly to Matheson?

Mate I know you are sticking to the draft as a strategy but I think it is stretching it a bit to compare a proven A grader with years of AFL experience to an 18 y.o draftee people were spitballing about.

Anyone find those clearance and contested stats for the 18 y.o kids we will take instead of Kelly?

 

[bird_man]

Do you watch the games or just read that stats?.

You said he was a match winner or words to that effect and I replied that in my opinion he may have been a couple of times which imho is less than billings. I know when a player has little impact on the game but kills it in the stats then he knows how to get a cheap possession.

You seem to love stats, how many goals has he kicked this year. I'm sure you already know it's not a lot for a guy who gets the ball as much as he does and is such a match winner.

I was nearly every Giants game and watch him very closely. My opinion is not based solely on stats but the fact he gets involved in that many scoring plays says something. He also has 11 contested touches again so let's not pretend he's just a seagull.

To answer your question, he's kicked 12. Only 5 behind Billings who plays forward and has one more game.

He's also kicked more than Ward and Shiel, so I'm not really sure what your point is?

So yes, I watch the games very closely. He was amazing against Collingwood to drag them back from 5 goals down. His game against the bombers was huge. As were his games against WC and North. I don't need stats to tell me Kelly is a gun, but they clearly help my argument.

But keep going on about the Hawks game and just judge him off that.

 

[The Boar]

as soon as these rumours started floating around, I wanted GWS to win in 2017 for this exact reason.

I disagree. If you've won a flag, you don't want to leave your team nor do you want anyone else to leave it.
A flag generally galvanises the group, not breaks it up.
If they win, they'll stay for a dynasty

 

[Joffaboy]

I disagree. If you've won a flag, you don't want to leave your team nor do you want anyone else to leave it.
A flag generally galvanises the group, not breaks it up.
If they win, they'll stay for a dynasty

In a real team, not a plastic AFL Frankenstein.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I disagree. If you've won a flag, you don't want to leave your team nor do you want anyone else to leave it.
A flag generally galvanises the group, not breaks it up.
If they win, they'll stay for a dynasty

We want them out in straight sets.
Choke you mofos choke.

 

[Longmembrey]

Are comparing Kelly to Matheson?

Mate I know you are sticking to the draft as a strategy but I think it is stretching it a bit to compare a proven A grader with years of AFL experience to an 18 y.o draftee people were spitballing about.

Anyone find those clearance and contested stats for the 18 y.o kids we will take instead of Kelly?

Exactly. Sometimes it is easy just to take the kids because then there is no pressure to succeed ("we are still young", "we are developing"). Paying up for guns says "we are nearly ready, let's go for it". That takes some courage....

 

[Keg on legs]

I will spit the dummy if we even entertained it. Goldstein a few years ago, yes. Goldstein now and more importantly a year older? No thanks.

He is a shadow of his former self - North realized this. Shopped him around, didn't get a buyer, even with the senior citizen discount.

I agree he looks cooked


BUT.......



Just imagine if he is like Jakey boy was, and just really really needs a change of scenery


Now ......

imagine the melts on the lolnorf board of we:

A) beat them for jelly AND
B) we take the 2018 AA ruckman off their hands for the mid/ late second we get for hickey

Hell, it's almost worth the risk for the entertainment value!

 

[Rors]

I reckon Danger was still playing a bit of time up forward then though, I remember playing them when he was young and he looked like he wouldn't develop a tank to play mid and spent time in the forward line, he was starting to look like he'd be pretty good around that age though. Stats can show what ever we want them to. Daniel Rich started his footy career looking like he'd be better than Judd. They are more handy guide than pure evidence.

No, what the stats show me is exactly how I remember Dangerfield. He rolled between midfield & forward but mostly played midfield, & definitely didn't find the ball as much as Kelly does or have as good a tank.

So for mine, the fact Kelly already has an elite tank & averages nearly 30 touches a game, I can't see why people don't think he could go to equal or beyond that DF level. Hell, in just 3 years, Kelly has gone from a skinny winger to a pure midfield gun, be it inside or outside, and put on muscle bulk pretty easily

 

[Yawkey way]

Are comparing Kelly to Matheson?

Mate I know you are sticking to the draft as a strategy but I think it is stretching it a bit to compare a proven A grader with years of AFL experience to an 18 y.o draftee people were spitballing about.

Anyone find those clearance and contested stats for the 18 y.o kids we will take instead of Kelly?

Clearly not as I said just the near hysterical levels of enthusiasm people have at present for Kelly many once had for Mathieson.

You know my opinion on this by now, I think we will have a young list well short of a top 4 team and lacking A grade talent. I think we need a lot more than Kelly and I like him but not his price.

I also don't see how this young list has a desperate need to pay overs for any player. Excess cap space can be used in a number of ways all we need to do is meet league requirements and we will have the same space next year.

A young team not close go it's window lacking in A grade talent paying stupid prices for recruits rather than going to the draft why, because of some grand plan that clearly hasn't worked out.

You do know that every year future A grade stars are picked in the draft, given our position why not us.

The club I'm pretty sure doesn't base it's decisions on big footy so posters shouldn't be to concerned. We all know they go to the pub get hammered and then do whatever seems like a good idea, just like the rest of us.

 

[luca77]

Somebody on here a few weeks back actually said Luke Hodge is overrated.
Kelly is apparently overrated.
I bet you could name any player and there'd be someone on this very board prepared to say they're overrated.
Plugger...wouldn't make it in today's game.
Banger...didn't kick enough goals.
Roo....missed too many shots, played too long.
Barks...flew for too many marks
Winmar...low on contested possessions

Given that probably everybody is going to be labelled overrated anyway, let's just recruit someone overrated, pay them the bucks and be done with it. Hopefully we get somebody overrated in the Luke Hodge way.

 

[VDS66]

He's a very good player but clearly he's not Selwood or Dangerfield good for example imho.

I would take ward or Shiel before him right now, so how good is he really and will he get better or stay around his present level ?

I know I'm well and truly in the minority on this but there you have it, I hear people making the big statements about how good a player is going to be so often it's a joke.

Look maybe he will and maybe he won't but at 2 first rounders and 1 million plus for where the saints stand now for me it's a pass.

1: how can you compare him to those 2? How about looking at comparative age instead?

2:Ward and Shiel are not available and may never be.