Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[StandByyourMan]

Docherty/Cripps ... its time !!

Cripps/Docherty. But yes, one or the other, and this needs to happen before next season.

 

[curnow4brownlow]

Do we think simpson will play on for another year? Should we start looking for a replacement to target in the off season?

 

[StandByyourMan]

Do we think simpson will play on for another year? Should we start looking for a replacement to target in the off season?

Retirement it looks like, he is reportedly joining his twin brother in the Murray Ovens.

 

[Azul]

Retirement it looks like, he is reportedly joining his twin brother in the Murray Ovens.

Can his brother kick on his right foot?

 

[Mr_Plow]

Wont most of this happen by eating and acquainting himself with restaurant owners on Sydney Rd?

Coburg lad + Lebanese heritage =

 

[therubbernub]

Love the enthusiasm mate, we need more of it around these parts.
But let's look at this without the blue tinged glasses for a sec..
Charlie is 2-3 seasons away from being in your words "a superstar"... will have patches of greatness and will go missing at times. Historical evidence in young talls doing this is overwhelming..
Harry has passed his audition yes. But if he tracks a similar path to say, Daniher, then he is 30 - 40 games away still from being a regular 2-3 a game goal kicker..
Kerr hasn't played a game... (has potential though)
Rowe and Jones.. cmon man, now you're just jibber jabbering..
Young SOS still needs consistency and another 2 pre seasons to bulk up..

If Cas leaves, our forwardline will be even more easy to manouvre out of than it has been this season. Who will take on Cas's role as pinch hitter ruck/forward.
Who will be our target up front. Who will straighten us up? Who will provide the big body to make our kids walk a bit taller?
Who will kick our goals, we are already the lowest scoring side in the AFL.. let's take Cas's 20-30 out and pin our hopes on 4 x 18-20 year olds.
All that will guarantee is pick 1 again next season. **** that!

Don't get me wrong, we need mids and medium forwards as an absolute priority. I agree, but potentially having pick 1allows us to at least consider an option where we can trade in a big bodied forward and a decent mid.

Will it happen? Who knows. I can catagorically state nobody here especially. But we would be negligent if the opportunity arose and it wasn't investigated..

Richmond and GWS have recently shown that a potential reaction to zone defence is a much smaller forward line. It may not be the whole answer but it could be that the KPF will have a much more minor role in the next few years (The crows may show us that this is folly) But the key IMO is forward pressure. The ability to defend out of your forward line and stop soft rebound exits to the opposition seems to be gaining in importance. In that case it certainly makes sense to let Levi walk and turn his compensation pick into a small forward /midfielder. Both Charlie and Harry are sufficiently mobile that they can play the modern tall forward role and maybe a pack crashing forward is a secondary need. Rayner would be perfect for this sort of setup with his tenacity, tackling, core strength and marking ability. What a pity we let two of the best go in Eddie and jeffy

 

[Azul]

Coburg lad + Lebanese heritage =

Mil Hanna?

 

[therubbernub]

Really disappointing with Cas apparently out the way out that we haven't given Jaksch a chance on the back of 8 goals in two games in the magoos. What is the harm of giving him 3 weeks of AFL football and a chance to show his worth, build some momentum and snag a 1 year contract a minimum wage + incentive bonuses.
It's not going to hurt Levi's trade value by saying he is out with a sore knee or something for the last couple of weeks.

KJ has the option of doing what Jones did and kick another 4 this week and force his way in. I am sure he understands that he is on his last chance to show us what he can do.

 

[Forty3]

KJ has the option of doing what Jones did and kick another 4 this week and force his way in. I am sure he understands that he is on his last chance to show us what he can do.

Agreed, I just feel, as we saw a bit with HMac, these tall forwards have must better opportunity to show there wares when on the bigger stage. Less wind and better ball users.
Nothing to lose if reports of Cas being gone are true. If he plays 3 bad games then flick him. But I would prefer those three bad games to be in the AFL and not out at Casey fields because his good field positioning is going unrewarded due to a Nick Graham "drop punt"

 

[Wickzki]

Hearing from a few people that harry McKay may ask to be traded to north so he can play along side his brother, he isn't to happy about not getting a game and would much rather play along side his brother

Can tell you now that it's Ben who has asked to be traded to Carlton. He re-signed real early (August last year) to the end of next year. He has yet to get an AFL game. However, to be fair he's had his season wracked by injury. But even when he's been healthy his from in the VFL has been very inconsistent. Even Harry's inconsistent VFL form was much better than Ben's.

 

[ferrisb]

If discussions with Dylan are soon no more, to whom will the players turn?

Hushed conversations with Humphrey....

 

[Andypooh23]

KJ has the option of doing what Jones did and kick another 4 this week and force his way in. I am sure he understands that he is on his last chance to show us what he can do.

I think Kristian has been taken to Perth as the travelling emergency. Unfortunately he will not be able to play reserves.

 

[DangerousD]

Accurate post.

Now to look at it from Carlton's Pov instead of a Murphy Pov though:

Carlton's biggest weakness is that Murphy has been our best option as a Leader.

He is not a crap player, he is a very good player. He puts in as much as he physically can. Which is conditional. Which is not optimal as a Leader.

He is the best Leader Marc Murphy can be, but i hope he is not the best leader Carlton have going forward.

I would like to keep Murphy. Have never seen him as tradeable. From our POV, we need him as an experienced player, and i don't think we would get an optimal return for him. The only club who would consider giving us an optimal return is GWS but he is not the player for them.

So keep him, but imo we cannot keep going with him as Captain.

We need to be a new Carlton from 2018 forward. A harder nosed team. A more respected outfit.

Docherty and Cripps are ready. I just hope we do it....but dunno if we will.

100%

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Do we think simpson will play on for another year? Should we start looking for a replacement to target in the off season?

I reckon he will but don't think he should.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

I'd like Kelly too but the price (a. what we have to give up b. what we have to pay him) worries me.
I don't care whether another team can claim a win for his signature, but just for the net result.

• The difficult thing about Kelly is that he's not Dusty, he's not Dangerfield, he's not Fyfe, he's not Ablett, he's not Selwood and he's not Buddy. As a matter of fact he's not even close.
• IMO I don't think Kelly is any better player than Gibbs and the only real advantage he provides is that he's 6 years younger. As you point out though, that will be more than offset by what he'll cost in picks and that he'll cost us a minimum of twice what Gibbs does.
• Shiel, Scully, Coniglio, Whitfield, Ward, Greene and, to a lesser extent, Hopper all help to take attention away from Kelly, so he never gets tagged. That won't happen if he comes to us.
• Forget the media hype about $1.25m/year I think it will be more in the region of $800k/yr and maybe around $650k/yr if he stays at GWS. Those same sources claimed Josh Schache had numerous 5yr/$700k contracts and a bottle of smelling salts waved about under his nose, but he signed a 2yr/$350k contract with the Lions. Make of that what you will.

Would be happy to get Hopper, keep our first picks for this year and next and do some money-balling on mids through trades.

• I'd be a lot happier to get Hopper if he genuinely wanted to come to us like Marchbank did, but my mail is that his first preference is to stay at GWS if a suitable deal can be struck.
• Would I like him at the Blues??? Sure, but if GWS is where the young bloke's heart lies then leave him there and take the pick to the draft.
• Must admit that I'm beginning to cool on Hopper and would rather see SOS trade for picks in the first 2 Rounds.

To date, Carlton has never said they are chasing Kelly so it is all sheer speculation. We are not playing any games with anyone, it's only online forums and the media that is beating it up.

In May/June, we said that we would only ever trade a first rounder for elite young talent that fits our rebuild, it was roughly around the same time that it emerged that we were into Hopper.

Since then it has been very quiet.

Occasionally Trigg throws a live mouse into the viper pit to see if any of the media bite. For most normal people 1+1=2, but for the media and online forums 1+1=Kelly+Hopper+Balic+......... It's just the way it works.

 

[HyphensBack]

I am strongly in the camp that 1 or 2 key midfielders are needed to support Cripps, Gibbs, Ed, Murph and Kreuzer. SPS, Fischer & Cunningham all look like they could step up but we need an elite midfielder (2 if Gibbs goes) and I think it has to be someone like Kelly or Shiel as it will be at least 2 to 3 yrs for a draftee to provide that output.

With that in mind I feel we have stockpiled KPs and a few need to be sacrificed for the greater good. Who would you trade this year or next to allow us to get picks for the elite mids we need. My choices in bold to go are not worth much so what is your left field choice - mine are underlined but only after they increase value next year:
Jones - keep, could be rated Elite next year, wow I didn't think I would say that but read below
Marchbank - keep will be A grade, unlikely to move again so quickly
Weitering - learning the game not at peak
Alex Silvagni - no trade value - good backup
Macreadie - could be anything, but hasn't peaked - is a candidate
Rowe - lost his gig I would say, lost value, forward ruck replace Casboult whilst Harry grows into role
JGM - delist by the sounds of it
White - he is a good battler but not required going forward

Kreuzer - at his peak, but I say keep
Goringe - delist
Korchek - ??

Casboult - let him go, best year and he kicks 30, but misses so many and leaks goals due to lack of pressure
McKay - huge potential and not at peak
Jack Silvagni - hasn't reached peak and they won't trade
C Curnow - Will be elite
Jaksch - If the attitude is wrong then get rid of him
Phillips - back up to Kreuzer and no currency

Weitering for Dylan Shiel??
I feel dirty even proposing it and I don't think Weitering would move north.
Jones to enable us to get Shiel or Kelly ie with a pick - that I would do - sure Jones is looking great but you need to give up something of quality to get something of quality

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

• The difficult thing about Kelly is that he's not Dusty, he's not Dangerfield, he's not Fyfe, he's not Ablett, he's not Selwood and he's not Buddy. As a matter of fact he's not even close.
• IMO I don't think Kelly is any better player than Gibbs and the only real advantage he provides is that he's 6 years younger. As you point out though, that will be more than offset by what he'll cost in picks and that he'll cost us a minimum of twice what Gibbs does.
• Shiel, Scully, Coniglio, Whitfield, Ward, Greene and, to a lesser extent, Hopper all help to take attention away from Kelly, so he never gets tagged. That won't happen if he comes to us.
• Forget the media hype about $1.25m/year I think it will be more in the region of $800k/yr and maybe around $650k/yr if he stays at GWS. Those same sources claimed Josh Schache had numerous 5yr/$700k contracts and a bottle of smelling salts waved about under his nose, but he signed a 2yr/$350k contract with the Lions. Make of that what you will.

• I'd be a lot happier to get Hopper if he genuinely wanted to come to us like Marchbank did, but my mail is that his first preference is to stay at GWS if a suitable deal can be struck.
• Would I like him at the Blues??? Sure, but if GWS is where the young bloke's heart lies then leave him there and take the pick to the draft.
• Must admit that I'm beginning to cool on Hopper and would rather see SOS trade for picks in the first 2 Rounds.

Occasionally Trigg throws a live mouse into the viper pit to see if any of the media bite. For most normal people 1+1=2, but for the media and online forums 1+1=Kelly+Hopper+Balic+......... It's just the way it works.

That's a pretty good thing for us I would suggest.

 

[DangerousD]

The difficult thing about Kelly is that he's not Dusty, he's not Dangerfield, he's not Fyfe, he's not Ablett, he's not Selwood and he's not Buddy. As a matter of fact he's not even close.

Of course he isn't close, those guys are all 27+, his numbers compared to the others (except buddy) at the same age are similar if not better.

 

[DangerousD]

Jones for Shiel or Kelly - that I would do - sure Jones is looking great but you need to give up something of quality to get something of quality

Is that a joke?
Out of curiosity, what do you think Jones is worth?

 

[HARKER]

Of course he isn't close, those guys are all 27+, his numbers compared to the others (except buddy) at the same age are similar if not better.

Kelly will be a wonderful player for a very long time.
Has the right character and attitude to boot.

 

[ShanDog]

Can tell you now that it's Ben who has asked to be traded to Carlton. He re-signed real early (August last year) to the end of next year. He has yet to get an AFL game. However, to be fair he's had his season wracked by injury. But even when he's been healthy his from in the VFL has been very inconsistent. Even Harry's inconsistent VFL form was much better than Ben's.

I would support getting Ben McKay over to Carlton.

Only because I want to see newspaper headlines in 2019 after drafting Ben Silvagni that say "BLUES BROTHERS!" with pictures of Ed & Charlie Curnow, Jack & Ben Silvagni and Harry & Ben McKay.

 

[Omega Blue]

Typical robo trying to down grade Casboults fa value to ensure Carlton get less compensation.

 

[HARKER]

I would support getting Ben McKay over to Carlton.

Only because I want to see newspaper headlines in 2019 after drafting Ben Silvagni that say "BLUES BROTHERS!" with pictures of Ed & Charlie Curnow, Jack & Ben Silvagni and Harry & Ben McKay.

The Hickmott brothers? Maybe

 

[HyphensBack]

Is that a joke?
Out of curiosity, what do you think Jones is worth?

Sorry - corrected the comment, don't rate Jones that high - Jones with pick to get the gun mid - it might be something they need - the gun mid we definitely need

 

[F_therest]

Of course he isn't close, those guys are all 27+, his numbers compared to the others (except buddy) at the same age are similar if not better.

It's not just that it's the type of player he is.

He would be a gun who helps a team win games, but guys like Martin and Dangerfield are on another level...they single handedly win games and are match winners in the Franklin, ablett, judd mould. The type that can carry a team.

I don't think Kelly is that kind of player but still a gun.