Spoon awaits

[SnowRoo]

Since no one else rates our kids can we request a priority pick too?

 

[the big lebowski]

We have 13 of these buggers and our last spoon was 1972. I must admit I would rather not add to that list. Any top four or five pick should be a star. But do we have the quality in our recruitment department to get the pick right if we don't trade it for Kelly? Thats the real question. Our clubs ability to evaluate talent no matter what the pick.

Yes, whilst pick 1 gives us many advantages with trading and leverage, it only helps if we make the trades etc.

If not, we get pick 1 in a pretty even top 5.

 

[Mack Mitchell]

That 2000 team should have won 10 Flags.

Under achievers.

Typical bias Gaso! Only 1 North player picked!

 

[Skiparoo]

Plus tbe unexpected gift from last years draft ...some kid called Simpkin

Yep, him as well.

 

[DarwinRoo]

I've changed my mind, let's win the next 3 wooden spoons get 3 first picks and viola we become as dominant as Carlton have been.

 

[SnowRoo]

#1 pick has netted next to nothing when it comes to premiership chances historically. You'd be fools to delude yourself into thinking North are the exception - it's the same kind of blind optimism that colours every off-season trade speculation ("we'll get two first rounders for a player barely in our best 22, then pick up another team's best player with our second and fourth round picks - then we'll be unstoppable next year!"), and to be honest it's pretty damn pathetic to see "supporters" stooping as low as some have this season in coveting the spoon. Leave that kind of nonsense to followers of failed sides who've not won finals for a decade or more.

Eight years ago, the last time we were definitely not finals-bound two rounds out from the end of the H&A season, there were some on here who delighted in the idea that we'd get smashed by St. Kilda and potentially secure ourselves a higher pick - instead we had our best win for the season. Dreaming up fantasy hypotheticals where our present failures are somehow necessary catalysts to our future successes is utterly puerile, and feeling "conflicted" or "disappointed" if we win because of those fantasies is even more so. Here's to hoping history repeats and we can galvanise our team further with some quality wins late in the season, the way Carlton look to have done for themselves tonight.

Think it's mostly trying to find a silver lining to a 5 win season. With little to sell in terms of results we turn to good old fashioned hope.

Don't think a person here would wish failure on the club.

But as sad as it is true HOPE is all we have to turn to right now.

 

[ferball]

Think it's mostly trying to find a silver lining to a 5 win season. With little to sell in terms of results we turn to good old fashioned hope.

Don't think a person here would wish failure on the club.

But as sad as it is true HOPE is all we have to turn to right now.

To quote Tom Waits:

If you live in hope you're dancing to a terrible tune.

 

[North Viking]

#1 pick has netted next to nothing when it comes to premiership chances historically. You'd be fools to delude yourself into thinking North are the exception - it's the same kind of blind optimism that colours every off-season trade speculation ("we'll get two first rounders for a player barely in our best 22, then pick up another team's best player with our second and fourth round picks - then we'll be unstoppable next year!"), and to be honest it's pretty damn pathetic to see "supporters" stooping as low as some have this season in coveting the spoon. Leave that kind of nonsense to followers of failed sides who've not won finals for a decade or more.

Eight years ago, the last time we were definitely not finals-bound two rounds out from the end of the H&A season, there were some on here who delighted in the idea that we'd get smashed by St. Kilda and potentially secure ourselves a higher pick - instead we had our best win for the season. Dreaming up fantasy hypotheticals where our present failures are somehow necessary catalysts to our future successes is utterly puerile, and feeling "conflicted" or "disappointed" if we win because of those fantasies is even more so. Here's to hoping history repeats and we can galvanise our team further with some quality wins late in the season, the way Carlton look to have done for themselves tonight.

This is the best post of the thread IMO

 

[Mack Mitchell]

We have 13 of these buggers and our last spoon was 1972. I must admit I would rather not add to that list. Any top four or five pick should be a star. But do we have the quality in our recruitment department to get the pick right if we don't trade it for Kelly? Thats the real question. Our clubs ability to evaluate talent no matter what the pick.

Growing up watching us in the 70's and into the 80's there's no way in hell that I would've wanted a wooden spoon! The ridicule alone from my mates would've been unbearable! I'm so proud of the way our club has competed since 1972. Seen 4 premierships and always having a crack. But the landscape is different. I now don't see the spoon as the result of finishing last. The No. 1 draft pick is now the result. If you're going to be down for various reasons then why not want it! I'd hate to give it to GWS but I'd do it for Kelly. To me he's so much more than a No.1 pick. We'd have 10 plus years out of an absolute gun that could be one of our best ever! Do we need pick 1 to get Kelly? No! But it makes the dealing so much easier. I want us to beat the aints today, badly, but I wont be crying and kicking the cat if we lose!

 

[North Viking]

We have nothing to gain by winning.

Nothing to gain?
WTF?
How about these things? Development of our club culture, a winning culture, of the shinboner spirit.

If Kelly nominates us, IF he decides to leave then we will have to give up our first rounder and then some.
Delusions of getting him the PSD are just fantasies.

Giving our first rounder for Kelly is a no brainier for me. He's a Gun, he's total Silk! And IMO will be the best player in the comp by the time he hits 25!!!!
So given we will have to trade our first pick any ways what does it matter if it's pick 4?

I would rather win today, continue to develop our team and culture then lose to potentially receive the number 1 pick we will need to trade any ways.

 

[SnowRoo]

• Team
  • 4× AFL Premiership: 2008, 2013 (C), 2014 (C), 2015 (C)
  • 2× McClelland Trophy: 2012 (C), 2013 (C)
• Individual
  • 2× Norm Smith Medal: 2008, 2014
  • 3× All-Australian: 2005, 2008, 2010 (C)
  • 2× Peter Crimmins Medal (Hawthorn F.C. B&F): 2005, 2010
  • 3× Australian Representative Honours in International Rules Football: 2005, 2014, 2015
  • AFL Rising Star Nominee: 2002
  • Hawthorn F.C. Captain: 2011–2016
  • Hawthorn best clubman: 2013
  • AFLPA Best Captain Award: 2014
  • Jim Stynes medallist: 2014

 

[blackshadow]

I've changed my mind, let's win the next 3 wooden spoons get 3 first picks and viola we become as dominant as Carlton have been.

Context isn't your strong suit is it?

This year the draft doesn't look as strong as what it will be next year. Next year the draft looks full of rich pickings and we have academy and father/son picks we want to secure so we need to hold our picks for next year.

This year we have the opportunity to snare one of the best midfielders in the competition - we'll need to trade for him. If we have the #1 pick it puts us in a much stronger bargaining position - if Kelly decides not to come to North then we're left with the #1 pick to try to secure the best young player in the land - both are great for future development.

Only an imbecile would state or think that we should win the next 3 wooden spoons to get 3 #1 draft picks.

 

[blackshadow]

Nothing to gain?
WTF?
How about these things? Development of our club culture, a winning culture, of the shinboner spirit.

If Kelly nominates us, IF he decides to leave then we will have to give up our first rounder and then some.
Delusions of getting him the PSD are just fantasies.

Giving our first rounder for Kelly is a no brainier for me. He's a Gun, he's total Silk! And IMO will be the best player in the comp by the time he hits 25!!!!
So given we will have to trade our first pick any ways what does it matter if it's pick 4?

I would rather win today, continue to develop our team and culture then lose to potentially receive the number 1 pick we will need to trade any ways.

That's the thing if we have the #1 draft pick I doubt we will have to give up anything else for Kelly but if we have the #4 pick then we'd be looking at at least a second round or a future first rounder.

 

[Luke72]

I can't see us finishing lower than 15th. If we don't beat the Saints we will at least beat Brisbane and GC and Carlton have tough games next week. Win one or two we still wind up 15th so I hope we in both. Pick4 for Kelly

 

[chaelsonnen]

Nothing to gain?
WTF?
How about these things? Development of our club culture, a winning culture, of the shinboner spirit.

If Kelly nominates us, IF he decides to leave then we will have to give up our first rounder and then some.
Delusions of getting him the PSD are just fantasies.

Giving our first rounder for Kelly is a no brainier for me. He's a Gun, he's total Silk! And IMO will be the best player in the comp by the time he hits 25!!!!
So given we will have to trade our first pick any ways what does it matter if it's pick 4?

I would rather win today, continue to develop our team and culture then lose to potentially receive the number 1 pick we will need to trade any ways.

Well it does matter. There is a sizeable difference between the value of pick 1 and pick 4 on the trade table.

Pick 1 is worth 3000 points.
Pick 4, pick 22 (our 2nd rounder) and pick 66 (our 4th rounder from the WB) combined are worth only 2959.

Do you really think GWS will take either pick 1 or 4 interchangeably and it won't matter to them? They're not idiots, if we want Kelly with 4, they would want our first, second and more...
Pick 1 would be worth more than our first and second combined. It may not be enough to get Kelly on it's own, but we would need to give up a hell of a lot less assets to get him here.

 

[DarwinRoo]

• Team
  • 4× AFL Premiership: 2008, 2013 (C), 2014 (C), 2015 (C)
  • 2× McClelland Trophy: 2012 (C), 2013 (C)
• Individual
  • 2× Norm Smith Medal: 2008, 2014
  • 3× All-Australian: 2005, 2008, 2010 (C)
  • 2× Peter Crimmins Medal (Hawthorn F.C. B&F): 2005, 2010
  • 3× Australian Representative Honours in International Rules Football: 2005, 2014, 2015
  • AFL Rising Star Nominee: 2002
  • Hawthorn F.C. Captain: 2011–2016
  • Hawthorn best clubman: 2013
  • AFLPA Best Captain Award: 2014
  • Jim Stynes medallist: 2014

Is that Jack Watts or Tom Boyd's resume?

 

[Wild Bill]

Pick 1 is so overrated.
Anyone thinking the spoon and / or tanking is good for us and posting garbage on the dusty / Kelly threads is a walking contradiction.

How can we expect to be taken seriously as a club when we cheer coming last in the competition.
Big signings will baulk at us if we don't show anything in these last two games - and deservedly so.


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A win and we could go from pick 1 to pick 5. Looking at what McGrath has done at ess and I would like 1. Also Weitering the year before has been incredible.

 

[Rad Roo]

Let's say we lose the next two, our yr has been nothing but a success. Blooded 12 with more additions and return. So we have a group of 18 players all young and starting and growing together. Success comes from gelling a core group together. Think back on our past success. While the Carey's and Mckernnans were the match winners they others like Crocker, Andersen, Scott, Blakey, archer, Martin were the backbones. So we should just focus on the superstars, it the backbone players we need to establish first.

 

[ferball]

Let's say we lose the next two, our yr has been nothing but a success. Blooded 12 with more additions and return. So we have a group of 18 players all young and starting and growing together. Success comes from gelling a core group together. Think back on our past success. While the Carey's and Mckernnans were the match winners they others like Crocker, Andersen, Scott, Blakey, archer, Martin were the backbones. So we should just focus on the superstars, it the backbone players we need to establish first.

That side started gelling in the under 19s, so really what's happened with our debutants this year is as close to that as you can probably get these days.

 

[hcd199]

Think it's mostly trying to find a silver lining to a 5 win season. With little to sell in terms of results we turn to good old fashioned hope.

Don't think a person here would wish failure on the club.

But as sad as it is true HOPE is all we have to turn to right now.

I don't doubt it's wishful thinking, self-placating so as not to face up to the reality of probably having our worst season in a long while. But wishful thinking of this sort is also behind falling for scam e-mails, staying in souring relationships, pouring more and more money into poker machines, and plenty more situations like those. That's not "hope", it's delusion - wilfully ignoring the obvious pitfalls and blindly walking into the trap anyway.

 

[Kimbo]

Not much shame in the spoon this year. Will have the most wins of any wooden spoon team in nearly 20 years (or if the bizarre happens, ever).

Well, not much shame if we win it. The other three contenders have been down the bottom for a long time. Fair bit of shame attached to it for them.

I agree Devington (quoted from non-North FOOTY DISCUSSION thread). The spoon doesn't have the stigma it once did, for those to whom this still matters. I've reflected on my own feelings about it, and the pride I used to feel about not winning one for 40 years, I realise, is futile and meaningless.

I do tend to believe Brad, Jack and co. when they say they're aiming to win every game, however our injuries and inexperienced replacements leave us well short at the moment. So, if we lose today and next week, it'll be because those things have taken their toll. In that context, I was more than happy to see the Blues knock off the Hawks.

So, with that said, I'll be content for us to 'win' the wooden spoon, and would actually prefer it to winning one or two meaningless games of football at the end of an injury-affected/rebuilding year. I don't believe the spoon guarantees future success, by any means, but I do believe it is far, far more valuable this year IF Kelly nominates us as his destination. Getting Kelly isn't, therefore, the same as other teams who have had, and used, the number one pick in the draft. In this case, it will effectively be to complete a trade for a known quantity, with maximum bargaining power. Kelly is a 'bird in the hand' compared to a number one pick who may be 'two in the bush'.

 

[Taylor]

If Kelly nominates us, IF he decides to leave then we will have to give up our first rounder and then some.

No, you won't.

You just take him with pick #1.

Or you offer GWS your second round pick, which they refuse.

It's like if you really want a house and the house is just what you need, it costs $500,000 and you have that in your hand. The person selling the house might want more but you aren't going to pay $750,000 for the house knowing you can get it for $500,000 in a week.

 

[Arathrawn]

Is that Jack Watts or Tom Boyd's resume?

Since 2000 the only number 1 draft picks with premierships are Tom Boyd and Luke Hodge.
Winning culture is way more important than the difference between pick 1 and 4.

 

[Taylor]

Securing elite talent without compromising access to other elite talent is the key to success.

Trading out two years of top 3/5 picks for a gun player is fair value, but if you can make it the single year because of your #1 pick, then you are effectively securing Kelly and a top pick next year for losing two games. Regardless of the output next season. You won't have that draft pick anyway if you don't have the #1 pick leverage.

Look at it like this, St Kilda might get Kelly and GWS will rightfully say he is worth more than Treloar, we want three first round picks. They could lose three gun players to secure one.

You won't get a better guarantee of outcome from a number 1 draft pick than securing Josh Kelly with it.

 

[Arathrawn]

• Team
  • 4× AFL Premiership: 2008, 2013 (C), 2014 (C), 2015 (C)
  • 2× McClelland Trophy: 2012 (C), 2013 (C)
• Individual
  • 2× Norm Smith Medal: 2008, 2014
  • 3× All-Australian: 2005, 2008, 2010 (C)
  • 2× Peter Crimmins Medal (Hawthorn F.C. B&F): 2005, 2010
  • 3× Australian Representative Honours in International Rules Football: 2005, 2014, 2015
  • AFL Rising Star Nominee: 2002
  • Hawthorn F.C. Captain: 2011–2016
  • Hawthorn best clubman: 2013
  • AFLPA Best Captain Award: 2014
  • Jim Stynes medallist: 2014

Thats Hodge who is a super player and has the best credentials of any pick 1. But you could put up a similar list for Judd(3), Bartel(8), Johnson(24), Mitchell(36), Ablett(40) who were all in the same draft. Pick 1 wont be our savior.