Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[STPer18]

Chicken or the egg? What's scary is that I'm not sure if it's more that certain players just aren't able to perform in finals simply because they're not good enough, or if it's because they're not being taught well enough to perform on the big stage. Menegola as an example, he had a massive last month to the season, yet was found wanting yet again come finals, likewise Murdoch, even Stewart had a stinker compared to recent weeks, as did Henderson, Parsons etc, basically the majority of the team.

Say you deduce the players aren't up to it so you move them all on and start again, only to find in 6-7 years time we're right back where we started, and the new players are performing in a similar manner, then the onus would be on those teaching these players. It would be interesting to see how a player like Menegola would perform at a team like the Swans come finals time, whether he'd be able to elevate his game or not.

It's a shit situation where you're not entirely sure if it's the coaches, the players, or a bit of both, and until you nail that what exactly can you do?

 

[krisholio14]

There is Mitch Duncan who has gone on to become a seriously good player, and Menzel if not for knee injuries, name me one other player who the club have developed into a gun under Chris Scott's tenure?

Of all players who are now 25, 26 years of age, still very big question marks on Blicavs, Murdoch, Motlop, Horlin-Smith, Guthrie, Cowan, Ruggles, Stanley.
There are younger players who seem to be following a similar path.

Blitz was going along alright until they changed the rules. He was also starting to play some good footy when he got injured. Murdoch had his worst game in months last night, Guthrie is a good to very good player who I think has been carrying a niggle all year. Jed Bews has been outstanding this year, Cocky has improved but can't get out there, Linc the same. Other players like Tommy Stewart and Kola have come along well this year despite having 'mares last night.

Not everyone you draft or recruit is going to prove to be a gun. No team in any sport anywhere has a 100% record. Even in the 99 and 01 drafts, we had a player that bombed.

This group of players for the most part are unlikely to reach the same heights as the success of the champions we picked up in those drafts, but the reality is, it's a very rare thing to get it right like that. We hit the jackpot in that period, but that's the exception, not the rule. Without looking at raw numbers, even outside of those drafts, I think our strike rate is still better than average.

 

[cats251]

Blitz was going along alright until they changed the rules. He was also starting to play some good footy when he got injured. Murdoch had his worst game in months last night, Guthrie is a good to very good player who I think has been carrying a niggle all year. Jed Bews has been outstanding this year, Cocky has improved but can't get out there, Linc the same. Other players like Tommy Stewart and Kola have come along well this year despite having 'mares last night.

Not everyone you draft or recruit is going to prove to be a gun. No team in any sport anywhere has a 100% record. Even in the 99 and 01 drafts, we had a player that bombed.

This group of players for the most part are unlikely to reach the same heights as the success of the champions we picked up in those drafts, but the reality is, it's a very rare thing to get it right like that. We hit the jackpot in that period, but that's the exception, not the rule. Without looking at raw numbers, even outside of those drafts, I think our strike rate is still better than average.

Blicavs is incredibly overrated.
This is one of the reasons why we are such a poor finals team nowadays. He continually gets a pass mark no matter what he does when it really matters most.
Cockatoo has never shown he has what it takes, not once so far in his short career to date.
He goes in hard and likes the verocity of the game but he's incredibly inconsistent.
McCarthy averages 10 touches, 2 marks and less than 1 goal a game. He's hardly a player of the future. He shows very good promise but so did Kersten and Vardy at various stages in their career.

I don't expect every player we draft will turn out to be genuine gun players.
I just wanted at least 4 or 5 young kids to become genuine hardened stars. We have only one in Duncan who is now A grade. That's not good enough and it's a development issue which is why we are targeting Hopper, Stringer, Ablett and Smith in the next trade period.

 

[dazbroncos]

Blicavs is incredibly overrated.
This is one of the reasons why we are such a poor finals team nowadays. He continually gets a pass mark no matter what he does when it really matters most.
Cockatoo has never shown he has what it takes, not once so far in his short career to date.
He goes in hard and likes the verocity of the game but he's incredibly inconsistent.
McCarthy averages 10 touches, 2 marks and less than 1 goal a game. He's hardly a player of the future. He shows very good promise but so did Kersten and Vardy at various stages in their career.

I don't expect every player we draft will turn out to be genuine gun players.
I just wanted at least 4 or 5 young kids to become genuine hardened stars. We have only one in Duncan who is now A grade. That's not good enough and it's a development issue which is why we are targeting Hopper, Stringer, Ablett and Smith in the next trade period.

Yup.. pull up to the drive thru window " i'll have 5 genuine hardened stars to go thanks"

That easy.

Go Catters

 

[And_ROOS]

Menzel could not possibly be classified as a marking forward.

If it was bad to have Menzel in the forward line because he was a "marking forward", why the hell did Taylor spend any time up forward at all?

Most of Menzel's goals are opportunistic, skill, quick minded stuff. Don't know what he is talking about. Not having Menzel was shooting ourselves in the foot.

For the record, the marking forward comment was from Scotty not from me. Want to make that perfectly clear.

 

[And_ROOS]

All of Richmonds players aren't guns. But when you have spuds like Grigg harder at the contest than our guys, then you have a MASSIVE issue. And thats down to either coaching, game plan or motivation.

 

[And_ROOS]

I don't think so. He was despised for much of the last 3 years

Also pretty sure they were happy to shop Dusty around a year or two ago...

And end of last year it was Hardwick out.

Also speaking of, what happened to that group from the start of the year that wanted to take over and fire Hardwick. Suspiciously quiet now.

 

[zb14]

Also pretty sure they were happy to shop Dusty around a year or two ago...

And end of last year it was Hardwick out.

Also speaking of, what happened to that group from the start of the year that wanted to take over and fire Hardwick. Suspiciously quiet now.

They were pretty much ruined with a nasty, deceitful, slanderous PR campaign from Peggy and Benny Gale's media hacks. Which is interesting, because listening to Caro on Classified last week, she lashed James Brayshaw for not being able to unite the North factions. You gotta love it. What a joke this "competition", and so much associated with it, has become. I'm just glad I came to my senses this year and started watching from the couch. Have saved myself a lot of effort and enough $$. I wont be looking back from here, let me tell you.

 

[zb14]

can i ask, just what, exactly, have Richmond currently achieved. They've done what we did last year. From my viewing position, I don't think last night was a glowing endorsement of their credibility. But time will tell

 

[zb14]

It just popped in my head, "great all-rounder" is how Brian Cook describes Chris Scott. Maybe half-right. Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[cynical]

Blitz was going along alright until they changed the rules. He was also starting to play some good footy when he got injured. Murdoch had his worst game in months last night, Guthrie is a good to very good player who I think has been carrying a niggle all year. Jed Bews has been outstanding this year, Cocky has improved but can't get out there, Linc the same. Other players like Tommy Stewart and Kola have come along well this year despite having 'mares last night.

Blicavs was really poor early in the year when he had a stretch of terrible games and should have been dropped, he is the ruck/mid version of Stanley, just inconsistent. Has potential but doesnt have the skills or smarts to be a good player.

Guthrie has more skill but is going nowhere under Scott, has just become a soft inconsistent player. It's not 2013 anymore.

Murdoch is just a depth player, same problem as the others, flashes of brilliance followed by a lot of ordinary footy.

 

[fpm84]

can i ask, just what, exactly, have Richmond currently achieved. They've done what we did last year. From my viewing position, I don't think last night was a glowing endorsement of their credibility. But time will tell

They've achieved nothing and it will be extremely enjoyable to watch them get rolled in the next few weeks.

 

[Partridge]

can i ask, just what, exactly, have Richmond currently achieved. They've done what we did last year. From my viewing position, I don't think last night was a glowing endorsement of their credibility. But time will tell

Nothing yet obviously. But they have shown that:
- They are much improved from last season
- Cotchin can perform in finals
- Their style of football works in finals
- More teams should pay attention to applying basic pressure as it all springs from there.
- Final point, they are a much more unified team than Geelong. Telling ourselves how crap they are might make us feel better but won't solve anything. Nor is it true. I get the impression that posters who say that don't want to face the truth about Geelong or that the last few years look to have been wasted.

 

[krisholio14]

Blicavs is incredibly overrated.
This is one of the reasons why we are such a poor finals team nowadays. He continually gets a pass mark no matter what he does when it really matters most.
Cockatoo has never shown he has what it takes, not once so far in his short career to date.
He goes in hard and likes the verocity of the game but he's incredibly inconsistent.
McCarthy averages 10 touches, 2 marks and less than 1 goal a game. He's hardly a player of the future. He shows very good promise but so did Kersten and Vardy at various stages in their career.

I don't expect every player we draft will turn out to be genuine gun players.
I just wanted at least 4 or 5 young kids to become genuine hardened stars. We have only one in Duncan who is now A grade. That's not good enough and it's a development issue which is why we are targeting Hopper, Stringer, Ablett and Smith in the next trade period.

Blitz has won a B&F. Whether anyone thinks he deserved it or not, it's in the book. Considering he cost us exactly nothing, I'd say we've got more than our money's worth there.

Linc and Cocky haven't been able to get any continuity going, but have shown glimpses of two things we need up forward, a bit of mongrel and a bit of X factor. They show a little more as time goes on, the problem is every time they look ready to step up to another level, they break down. Vardy was certainly in a similar boat as far as continuity goes, and he's gone to West Coast and played well in a tough situation for them.

The reality for mine is that in the last 10 years, too many of our young blokes have suffered freak injuries that have curtailed their progression. Not all of them would have become A graders, but some of them would, and some may still become.

The other thing to remember here is that we've had very few premium picks in this time. The lower down the order you go, the harder it becomes. Hence that, along with the injury issues I mentioned above, has made it a necessity to trade and recruit from opposition teams. I'd suggest given the assets we've had to build the list, for us to remain consistently competitive has been a fair achievement.

I appreciate that though we are consistently there or thereabouts, we haven't really looked like we could win a premiership and it's incredibly frustrating. I don't like to settle for second best or worse, however I'd rather we are able to find ways to stay up and about, and still keep trying to make some moves to put us over the top, than bottom out and risk years of mediocrity being mired to the lower rungs.

 

[And_ROOS]

2 or 3 anonymous coaches voted him hardest to coach against in some pole somewhere.
That's all that matters. No need to even ask reasonable questions or you'll cop a bunch of shit.

Maybe they did that so he got an extension, I know if I was coaching a finals team I would be chuffed to be up against him.
Do you think 2002 Leigh Matthews would have left Taylor up forward getting smashed by Rance?

Menegola as an example, he had a massive last month to the season, yet was found wanting yet again come finals

Played the last month as a mid who drifted forward, spent a lot of last night on the HFF. Work that out.

It's a shit situation where you're not entirely sure if it's the coaches, the players, or a bit of both, and until you nail that what exactly can you do?

Selwood admitted last night/tonight we don't know how to play the MCG and the Tigers do. That is completely on the coaches.

can i ask, just what, exactly, have Richmond currently achieved. They've done what we did last year. From my viewing position, I don't think last night was a glowing endorsement of their credibility. But time will tell

Based on their celebrations last night I assumed they just won the GF.

 

[afl genius]

Same as usual from Scott. Good to see finally a few waking up to the fact that he is a dud coach. Shame most with a clue realised a few seasons ago that he was no good. Anyway look forward to the same dished up next week

 

[And_ROOS]

Don't worry Chris Scott supporters.

Only another 7 days until you can go back to saying "Wait until September".

"Wait til we get Ablett and Smith and then next September boy oh boy wowee!

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Maybe they did that so he got an extension, I know if I was coaching a finals team I would be chuffed to be up against him.
Do you think 2002 Leigh Matthews would have left Taylor up forward getting smashed by Rance?


Played the last month as a mid who drifted forward, spent a lot of last night on the HFF. Work that out.


Selwood admitted last night/tonight we don't know how to play the MCG and the Tigers do. That is completely on the coaches.


Based on their celebrations last night I assumed they just won the GF.

How do you not know how to play at the G? I know it's a lot different to our home ground but and oval is an oval, there's grass and goals at each end. There's just some more running to do at the G.

 

[krisholio14]

Blicavs was really poor early in the year when he had a stretch of terrible games and should have been dropped, he is the ruck/mid version of Stanley, just inconsistent. Has potential but doesnt have the skills or smarts to be a good player.

Guthrie has more skill but is going nowhere under Scott, has just become a soft inconsistent player. It's not 2013 anymore.

Murdoch is just a depth player, same problem as the others, flashes of brilliance followed by a lot of ordinary footy.

Guthrie for one reason or another hasn't taken the next step I agree, but is still more than handy. I'm getting tired of people continually pointing out how poor Blitz was early in the year, only to forget he'd hit some good form again before breaking his ankle (and then queuing up again to pot him after last night). Murdoch was in excellent form before last night's stinker.

I will make it perfectly clear, I'm bitterly disappointed with yet another insipid finals effort, and agree hard questions need to be asked. I would hate to go back to the old days where Geelong's attitude was always near enough's good enough. We may well be on the precipice as far as that goes, and perhaps we have become content and somewhat complacent in recent times. I'm not privvy anough with the inner workings of the club these days to be making definitive statements there. Having said that, I am far from convinced we are traveling anywhere near as badly as many supporters are making out, even in light of our last two finals 'performances'

 

[Zeroman]

Selwood admitted last night/tonight we don't know how to play the MCG and the Tigers do. That is completely on the coaches.

No its also on the players leadership group - especially the captain.
Is Selwood stifling the play!

 

[zb14]

This would be more appropriate in the malaise and mediocrity thread, but since it got closed late last night (not sure why, think its evidently topical atm) will put it here.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense for the club to encourage Chris Scott to explore any opportunity with the Suns. It would give the club a chance at some fresh people and ideas in all key posts. Hocking is headed to HQ in a few weeks, Cook has signalled its likely his last year in '18, so there is a chance to refresh across the board. To give new people a clean slate. Cook could start the transition process in earnest, and the club could start looking for his successor.

I would cull all the coaches except Scarlo and Boris. Yes, even Lloyd. I have always been skeptical of him, and think he's a significant influence on the way we play. Too much of how we play now seems strikingly Freo and Lyon like. The over-coached, overcomplicated, uber-defensive, guarding the grass structure we employ, with the accompanying lack of focus on skills and inventiveness. It seems very Freo-esque to me. And its come to the fore in these last 2 seasons since his arrival. We actually haven't been too bad to watch under Chris for the most part, but I suspect plenty of that was attributable to the leftovers of a Golden Generation who were ingrained in taking risks, and playing with instinct.

If we could start afresh I would seriously look at something like getting Brendan McCartney in again. Give him a guaranteed 3 year tenure, and let him bring in some of the 7-11 guys as assistants and development coaches, with a view to grooming a successor in time. His development focus is exactly what we need for so many across our list. He's a straight-shooter, proven teacher and has an uncomplicated footy philosophy. I think he would've learnt plenty from his first senior experience that will hold him in good stead second time around.

Thoughts?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

ummm I got about 130 posts of yours in a GD thread that says otherwise..

GO Catters

What? What do posts in the game day thread have to do with enjoyment? Do you correlate post numbers with enjoyment?

 

[The Casey Cat]

It just popped in my head, "great all-rounder" is how Brian Cook describes Chris Scott. Maybe half-right. Jack of all trades, master of none.

If someone with a 2-7 record (wins an after the siren miss to a side that went out in straight sets and a game we were 4 goals down at half time) is regarded as a 'great all-rounder' this is a bigger issue than anything. We have become complacent at the top.

 

[feelinfeline]

2 or 3 anonymous coaches voted him hardest to coach against in some pole somewhere.
That's all that matters. No need to even ask reasonable questions or you'll cop a bunch of shit.

So because they were anonymous, that means they lied?

Reasonable questions are fine. Saying he's a hopeless coach, which some on here do regularly, is less so.

Most people on here think here think he has strengths and weaknesses.

Would another coach do better with the same list? Would a rebuild with no picks inside the top 10 have been a better decision than recruiting mature players from elsewhere ? Are you happy to spend a few years near the bottom, like Richmond and the Bulldogs did, to build a new dynasty?

There are some questions to ponder.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

ummm I got about 130 posts of yours in a GD thread that says otherwise..

GO Catters

Could just ask to find the last post that's positive about the club or its players. That's got to be at least a year ago.