Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Red Bull]

Atkins has been mentioned by some here as possibly part of a Gibbs trade .
I hope we've heard the last of it now ...

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Interestingly they had four defenders named in their bests. Surely a first.

 

[Foucault1989]

By the way, anyway still think Charlie Cameron would be worth recruiting ??

As expected, when the Crows were under the pump, he wasn't there at the coalface trying to kick-start a revival.

Pretty sure he was injured legend. Fought hard all day.

 

[Arr0w]

Atkins has been mentioned by some here as possibly part of a Gibbs trade .
I hope we've heard the last of it now ...

Hope you are not basing that on the GF alone, as many other Crow's players would be in the same boat

 

[Red Bull]

Hope you are not basing that on the GF alone, as many other Crow's players would be in the same boat

Not at all .
I've posted previously on Atkins .
Everything you need in home and away games at the AO .
Everything you don't need at the MCG in September ...

 

[Arr0w]

I'm still scratching my head too.
I think they are structurally such a different team to match up on. Most opposition coaches want a settled back 6-7 with 3 tall defenders, with some of those talls being their best players. Yet that's a surplus of 2 talls against Richmond. It would take a brave coach to drop Hartigan & Talia based on team balance. It would be like dropping Weitering & Marchbank round 1 and saying sorry, we just don't have a matchup for you.
Letting Vickery go last year & not feeling pressure to play Griffith or Hampson as their second tall forward has been a master stroke.
It also helps having Dusty 1 on 1 in F50 too.


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My theory on Richmond is similar. Every team in the comp play's a very similar structure and to a slightly lesser extent similar gameplan. Through necessity early on and later by choice, the tigers played very differently, and no coach has been brave enough to swallow their pride, throw out their gameplan and change it up. But they now become the hunted. Coaches will now be spending all summer trying to figure out how to beat them. Can see them slipping a lot next year as their list on paper is mid table at best, but that is just ke guessing. The fact they were chasing casboult mid season shows even they doubted the sustainability of that gameplan come finals. All power to them for being brave, sticking to the plan and winning it! Dusty also makes a remarkable difference. He makes them 10% better. In such an even comp that is the difference most weeks.

Quite simply, they played to their strengths.
With another year of cattle trading, I think we might have a list with sustained run and elite disposal skills.
Our strength is not 3 small forwards and the one tall like Richmond's forward set up, but I can see a forward line built around Jack, Harry and Charlie troubling all sides with better I50 entries. Who buzzes around them? Pickett, Lamb? Wright? LeBois?
Need a few more midfielders to get it there.
Happy with our defence.

Don't think the Tigers winning was based on structure or the number of talls or smalls. Finals are always based around winning the contested ball and the Tigers did that in every finals game. That is what is the most surprising thing, given what their H&A season

 

[Arr0w]

Not at all .
I've posted previously on Atkins .
Everything you need in home and away games at the AO .
Everything you don't need at the MCG in September ...

In terms of contested possessions yesterday, I agree, but his disposal efficiency was very good despite the pressure that the Tigers brought.

Far from the worst and I still rate him, but I understand how you see it

 

[1981]

Don't think the Tigers winning was based on structure or the number of talls or smalls. Finals are always based around winning the contested ball and the Tigers did that in every finals game. That is what is the most surprising thing, given what their H&A season

I think Richmond did what the Dogs did. They've played a relentless, tiring contested brand of footy , the type that can't be adhered to all year as its so taxing but if you can do it in the latter part of the year you can win a flag. In the second halfof the year Richmond beat most of the teams they previously lost to early in the year. They were a different side later in the year. Dogs the same last year and seing what happened to Dogs it is possible Rochmond will not be top four next year. I think everyone agrees Adel had more talent, just not the fierce tackling game style the Tigers had

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

Don't think the Tigers winning was based on structure or the number of talls or smalls. Finals are always based around winning the contested ball and the Tigers did that in every finals game. That is what is the most surprising thing, given what their H&A season

More smaller, faster players able to get to more contests, create pressure & turnovers.
I think there is a correlation.


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[SkyhorseTamer]

More smaller, faster players able to get to more contests, create pressure & turnovers.
I think there is a correlation.


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There is but for some reason the crows stoppage set up was woeful. They didn't have a game plan for Richmond and they didn't adjust. The coaching team that came up with their tactics should get absolutely drilled. I know richmonds pressure was great but it was and won and lost around the stoppages. Adelaide were woeful.

 

[1981]

There is but for some reason the crows stoppage set up was woeful. They didn't have a game plan for Richmond and they didn't adjust. The coaching team that came up with their tactics should get absolutely drilled. I know richmonds pressure was great but it was and won and lost around the stoppages. Adelaide were woeful.

This.

Pyke needs to take a lot of the heat.

Adel are downhill skiers. They get a lot of goals over he top on the break.

And they had that attitude yesterday. Just expected to win and didn't attack the ball hard enough. Or the man.

 

[1981]

Interesting listening to Hardwick earlier today, he said Cotchin decided last year he would become the hunter not the hunted, that 2017 would be more about how many players he could hurt than how many kicks he gets. Marc Murphy needs to adopt a more aggressive attitude. His tackling would be among the worst I have ever seen from a captain. Just recognising the need to change and then deciding to make the change was leadership by Cotchin. Our players must look at MMs lame attempts to tackle and think well if it's good enough for the captain then it's good enough for me. I'm not saying MM has to become a kamikaze but he's got to develop a harder edge, I cannot see this team winning a flag with MM playing the kind of compromised football he plays.

 

[Jimmae]

If every player is adding pressure there is less reason to have to get to the next contest as you already have it covered with a team mate. Obviously a generalization

Yup, still requires a good understand to execute so you're not all barrelling up the field and exhausted before 3/4 time.

And people were saying the exact same things when it came to younger versions of Glass and Rance

Never had an issue with Glass; still don't like Rance's disposal but he's way more athletic and capable at contests than Lever. You and I both know that compared to his ability before his ACL that Lever has lost a step in many aspects.

Don't think the Tigers winning was based on structure or the number of talls or smalls. Finals are always based around winning the contested ball and the Tigers did that in every finals game. That is what is the most surprising thing, given what their H&A season

It was based around some tactical goals, and getting the best personnel in to do that. They chose to sacrifice archetypes and strict directives before talent and work rate.

 

[HARKER]

Interesting listening to Hardwick earlier today, he said Cotchin decided last year he would become the hunter not the hunted, that 2017 would be more about how many players he could hurt than how many kicks he gets. Marc Murphy needs to adopt a more aggressive attitude. His tackling would be among the worst I have ever seen from a captain. Just recognising the need to change and then deciding to make the change was leadership by Cotchin. Our players must look at MMs lame attempts to tackle and think well if it's good enough for the captain then it's good enough for me. I'm not saying MM has to become a kamikaze but he's got to develop a harder edge, I cannot see this team winning a flag with MM playing the kind of compromised football he plays.

It's good enough for everyone as by the sheer fact that he's captain, makes it an endorsement of his actions form coach, football department and players.

I'm sure that's not quite the case and why I can't see Murphy being retained as our leader. Would be a step backwards not making the change now.

 

[Red Bull]

It's good enough for everyone as by the sheer fact that he's captain, makes it an endorsement of his actions form coach, football department and players.

I'm sure that's not quite the case and why I can't see Murphy being retained as our leader. Would be a step backwards not making the change now.

It's time ...

 

[HARKER]

It's time ...

Time for T-shirts? Too much?

 

[BigFrizz36]

There is but for some reason the crows stoppage set up was woeful. They didn't have a game plan for Richmond and they didn't adjust. The coaching team that came up with their tactics should get absolutely drilled. I know richmonds pressure was great but it was and won and lost around the stoppages. Adelaide were woeful.

Agree. I think that Don Pykes game plan is similar to John Longmires. "We are better than the other team so no Plan B is required". There were times that the Cows were screaming out for change - no matter what - but nothing of any consequence was offered..

 

[F_therest]

There is but for some reason the crows stoppage set up was woeful. They didn't have a game plan for Richmond and they didn't adjust. The coaching team that came up with their tactics should get absolutely drilled. I know richmonds pressure was great but it was and won and lost around the stoppages. Adelaide were woeful.

Richmond have thrashed their opponent in all three finals they have played...geelong, gws and Adelaide.

Got to give them more credit I don't think it was so much adelaide were bad as Richmond were just too good...none of those teams could withstand their pressure and run. So Richmonds game plan and tactic of having more smaller running players has payed off, similar to dogs last year.

 

[Blue Heart]

Why did we not persist with Lambert ??

Or Grigg for that, especially when we traded him for a superdud in Collins !!!

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Tigers winning shows the importance of having a genuine superstar midfielder... no pressure but we really Cripps to find another gear and become our Dusty..

 

[Mr_Plow]

Tigers winning shows the importance of having a genuine superstar midfielder... no pressure but we really Cripps to find another gear and become our Dusty..

Had Judd.

Need a superstar and competent support cast.

If anything, Richmond's win supports the notion of having an elite defence, an elite midfield and hard-working quick players to score off turnovers.

There are many different formulae and we need to find ours.

 

[ODNBlue]

Richmond have thrashed their opponent in all three finals they have played...geelong, gws and Adelaide.

Got to give them more credit I don't think it was so much adelaide were bad as Richmond were just too good...none of those teams could withstand their pressure and run. So Richmonds game plan and tactic of having more smaller running players has payed off, similar to dogs last year.

One thing that I think should be remembered is that Richmond lost two games in a row earlier in the season that they had no right to lose. If they'd actually won them, they'd have finished top of the ladder. They were probably the best team all year. ****ers.

 

[Aphrodite]

Or Grigg for that, especially when we traded him for a superdud in Collins !!!

Grigg requested a trade.



https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/grigg-requests-a-trade.763063/

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/grigg-requests-a-trade-part-2.766321/

 

[Mr_Plow]

Not losing sleep over guys like Grigg or Lambert, lol.

You can find these kind of players in the 2nd round and beyond of every draft.

If we ever lost a player like Martin or Rance...

 

[DangerousD]

There should be a policy/strategy in place for us to Rookie List worthy Northern Blues Listed players (at least one per year).

This not only provides a pathway for players in the Northern Region, but provides an incentive for players to come to Northern if they know there is a chance to get on the Carlton List.

I really like this.
Imagine making a statement that every year CFC will rookie list a player from the Northern Blues no matter what. It would make a lot of VFL, WAFL and SANFL players take note.

Love it.