Rumour GFC 2017 Player Trading, Drafting, FA, Rumours, and Wish lists - PT2

[Strange Cat]

I don't think it's a race thing- Australians love celebrating good players, and our indigenous players are very highly celebrated. The reason Motlop cops it is because fans are fickle, and expect every player to be elite premiership level game changers every single game or get dropped. It's not racism, it's perpetually unrealistic expectations.

So you dont see the casual racism directed towards him on this board at times?

Rightio seems there’s a lot of ignorance on here tbh

 

[Pack Specialist]

I don't really think it's racist. One player just cops way more shit than anyone else when he's never the worst.

Motlop is our Watts.

Incredibly handy player and a lot of the time unfairly maligned.

Him leaving is purely economics, much like Watts.

Motlop infuriates me but only because I know how good he is.

 

[Rockford]

That may be true on a superficial level. For instance, the 7-11 team had say Ottens, Harley, Mooney (trade), Egan (Banker), FA wasn't applicable, and I don't recall a Black hail mary trade equivalent in those sides either. But a deeper analysis suggests otherwise. The notable difference is the backbone of those premiership teams was built on the draft. Even the trades, particularly in Mooney and Harley case, were effectively like draftees given their ages. Ottens was the closest thing to a "trade", and he was what, 24 maybe, when he came.

07 premiership team. 19 of the 22 came from draft (86%). Reflective of a CLEAR list management approach, and thats discounting 3 very clear, targeted youthful "trades".

17 Prelim team. 14 of 22 came from draft (63%). However, this figure includes draftees drafted before even first '07 Flag in Mackie, Lonergan, Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor so skews the draft figure. 2 mid-aged State Leaguers in Menegola, Stewart. 1 FA in Selwood. 5 trades in Danger, Hendo, Stanley, Tuohy, Smith (23%). The really "relevant' draftees in this team are Motlop, Menzel, Duncan, Kola, Bews, Blicavs, Lang, Parfitt, Cocky (40%). So really, a very different mix and approach to what delivered success last time for us.

It’s a smart reaction to two fairly signicant factors that impacted on the draft from 2010 onwards IMO: Gold Coast and GWS.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Just demand Hawkins lead,he is capable,if he stays more at home deep in the 50 and conserves the tank he could be a lead up target all day.

Tom showed what he can do in the final H&A games where he played as a CHF and lead to the ball beautifully with Buzza playing deep forward.
Just so happened to be the three weeks our forward line worked the best, but we went away from this to bring Stanley back in for finals for some reason

 

[nananana catman]

Tom showed what he can do in the final H&A games where he played as a CHF and lead to the ball beautifully with Buzza playing deep forward.
Just so happened to be the three weeks our forward line worked the best, but we went away from this to bring Stanley back in for finals for some reason

Stanley didn't play against Richmond.

 

[THE CAT WRANGLER]

Stanley didn't play against Richmond.

I thought Hawkins get 1 goals per 3 finals hopeless

 

[BigCat1]

Essendon will still get stringer.

They will package 24 & 28 for a mid/late first rounder (tigs' 17 pick) and that'll be enough.

I hope we get Stringer, but Essendon's deal with GWS doesn't really affect it.

It was a cracking deal. They are doing well

 

[Boxhead_31]

Stanley didn't play against Richmond.

You're correct apologies, but we did roll Harry forward and had Tom deep

 

[Pack Specialist]

You were reading and after 6 years you decided to post on here for the first time. At some rate as well

Who is Park Specialist??

I joined in 2013 to post on the Melbourne board.

The shit slinging had reached epic proportions and was unwarranted.

Colin Garland grew up 3 houses down from me and we went to school together (same class/same grade)

He moved to Hobart real young.

Russell Robertson's dad was my teacher for four years and I've worked with him (at the school) since.

I've read every footy book I can get my hands on and I love the Clubs and 100 years of Australian Football.

Melbourne's history is incredible.

Outside of Geelong, Melbourne is the only team I even care one iota about.

500-600 of my posts are on the Melbourne board.

Look up those posts if you want.

 

[zb14]

you're talking about 5 players being the difference between a clear list management approach? Don't forget in 07 Byrnes (Rookie) Rooke (Rookie) and the number of good draft picks that were used in the lead up to that time that failed. Players in the 2007 team were drafted as early as the 90's too (Wojcinski, Scarlett, King, Harley, Mooney)...

Spriggs, Bray, Gardiner, Foster, Tenace were all very good draft picks that didn't eventuate in this time. Even in a good draft the strike rate is about 50%. What has compounded the issue of using the draft since then is that we have had much higher picks than over this era.

Getting Scarlett, Gary Ablett and Hawkins for nothing helped immensely too.

And Pure Ownage beat me to it. FA didn't exist then.

Of course, the draft is an inexact science. That is why when you choose the draft as a CLEAR path, you blanket bomb it. Its all a numbers game in reality. You will have busts at the top end, wins in the middle and rookie rounds. That is why, when you go with say picks 10, 28, and 40 in the draft, you are less likely to succeed than if you have picks 10, 14, 20, 28, 35 and etc. That is where a CLEAR path, and more importantly, brave decisions come into play. We didn't get lucky with our 7-11 team. We Blanket Bombed the 99 and 01 drafts. Had hits and misses, but succeeded because we had heaps of picks. That wasn't luck, that was completely by design. Hard decisions were made. Mick Mansfield was turned into Chapman. Bizzell netted Kelly. Brave decisions. Give me a brave decision we've made in recent years?

This is relevant at the draft AND trade table. Could we turn Blicavs into something more valuable via trade? Could we turn the Bulldogs head with Guthrie for Stringer? Should we have traded out champions for better draft picks post '13? We are trying to balance an aggressive rebuild with a conservative approach. Not the way to do it, if you ask me. We pissed off plenty of champions in the end anyway, some finished careers elsewhere for zero benefit to US. Players are pragmatically seeking alternatives like Christensen, Mots, Menz (as is their right). Contracted players are walking when it suits (Caddy). R1's are being lost for peanuts because of poor development (Brown, Smedts, Lang?, Thurlow?). **** that, time to get our shit together again.

 

[Sttew]

I joined in 2013 to post on the Melbourne board.

The shit slinging had reached epic proportions and was unwarranted.

Colin Garland grew up 3 houses down from me and we went to school together (same class/same grade)

He moved to Hobart real young.

Russell Robertson's dad was my teacher for four years and I've worked with him (at the school) since.

I've read every footy book I can get my hands on and I love the Clubs and 100 years of Australian Football.

Melbourne's history is incredible.

Outside of Geelong, Melbourne is the only team I even care one iota about.

500-600 of my posts are on the Melbourne board.

Look up those posts if you want.

Are you ambidextrous?

 

[Wojcinski]

It’s a smart reaction to two fairly signicant factors that impacted on the draft from 2010 onwards IMO: Gold Coast and GWS.

Don't forget the fact that we haven't had many good picks over the last 10 years due to success. The players we drafted between 99 and 03 were due to trading out good players (Colbert, Mansfield, Burns etc) and finishing in the bottom half of the ladder 4 out of 5 seasons. We effectively rebuilt by coming close to bottoming out.

 

[TheYid]

So you dont see the casual racism directed towards him on this board at times?

Rightio seems there’s a lot of ignorance on here tbh

Calling me ignorant is pretty friggin' ballsy, I'll give you that. Few survive saying that to my face without leaving looking rather embarrassed.

I choose not to interpret everything in a negative light, as I am fully capable of critical independent thought. I'm over 50 so I haven't been trained by the media, society or schooling to constantly look for and "find" racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia...you get the picture. That doesn't make me ignorant, it makes me tolerant.

 

[footycats007]

Linking Motlop to a picture of a turtle ( har har all aboriginals eats turtles and get fat)

Appears racist to me

He got fat in the offseason 2 years ago and had a poor season this year apart from the odd game here and there and the finals. No wonder he is copping flack. If you are a professional athlete getting paid a huge amount of money, with all the time in the world of an offseason, you can't come back fat. If you don't play well, you deserve critisism. The majority of people aren't critising him for being Indigenous. He deserves the criticism he has copped. If you don't want the criticism, work harder in your offseason. Yes, I understand there are some racist people in our community, but saying he gets critised mainly because he is Indigenous is such a cop out.

 

[Pack Specialist]

Are you ambidextrous?

Funnily enough, yes I am.

Why is that?

 

[Strange Cat]

Calling me ignorant is pretty friggin' ballsy, I'll give you that. Few survive saying that to my face without leaving looking rather embarrassed.

I choose not to interpret everything in a negative light, as I am fully capable of critical independent thought. I'm over 50 so I haven't been trained by the media, society or schooling to constantly look for and "find" racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia...you get the picture. That doesn't make me ignorant, it makes me tolerant.

Half expecting you to throw out “snowflake” or such terms judging by your agreessive rant in there.

 

[Strange Cat]

He got fat in the offseason 2 years ago and had a poor season this year apart from the odd game here and there and the finals. No wonder he is copping flack. If you are a professional athlete getting paid a huge amount of money, with all the time in the world of an offseason, you can't come back fat. If you don't play well, you deserve critisism. The majority of people aren't critising him for being Indigenous. He deserves the criticism he has copped. If you don't want the criticism, work harder in your offseason. Yes, I understand there are some racist people in our community, but saying he gets critised mainly because he is Indigenous is such a cop out.

So hinting that he’s on the turtle meat up on the GC isn’t racist?

Got you

 

[Turbocat]

The 2007 team was built with players from last century under a system that had no free agency and where trades where less common. It’s just not comparable.

What is going on now is one big expiriment. There’s no right or wrong way. We will need to look back in a decade and reflect.

Yep and we are still in the vapour trail of the new "Franchises"... add the change in FSon and Academies ... and its Milton Monster and we are just hoping its not woops too much

 

[Spazz Cat]

Man this turtle joke has been going on for 2 years. I bet ya some of the people complaining about it now were posting turtle references or liking posts with them.
And no I wasn't of them. Not because I think it's racist just didn't really find it funny.

 

[footycats007]

So hinting that he’s on the turtle meat up on the GC isn’t racist?

Got you

Oops haha I'm sorry I didn't realize you were joking!!

 

[nananana catman]

Of course, the draft is an inexact science. That is why when you choose the draft as a CLEAR path, you blanket bomb it. Its all a numbers game in reality. You will have busts at the top end, wins in the middle and rookie rounds. That is why, when you go with say picks 10, 28, and 40 in the draft, you are less likely to succeed than if you have picks 10, 14, 20, 28, 35 and etc. That is where a CLEAR path, and more importantly, brave decisions come into play. We didn't get lucky with our 7-11 team. We Blanket Bombed the 99 and 01 drafts. Had hits and misses, but succeeded because we had heaps of picks. That wasn't luck, that was completely by design. Hard decisions were made. Mick Mansfield was turned into Chapman. Bizzell netted Kelly. Brave decisions. Give me a brave decision we've made in recent years?

You don't think getting Scarlett and Ablett was good luck? Hawkins? Selwood at 7?

Drafting in 99 and 01 was of utmost importance no doubt because our list was in terrible shape. And, it was the only way to go about it. Our list is in good shape at present and a blend of trading and drafting is suitable going forward.

 

[Sttew]

Funnily enough, yes I am.

Why is that?

Whoaa! Supporting 2 teams

 

[Grimoz]

Can we get this thread back on track and drop the whole racism thing, if you want to talk racism start your own bloody thread.

 

[hbk_aus]

Boy this board has some tension at the moment. It's like conversing with the mother-in-law. Cant we all agree on something? That we do the best "Wacky Wednesday/Mad Monday"?

 

[Pack Specialist]

Whoaa! Supporting 2 teams

No I'm one eyed Geelong.

Melbourne fans were on suicide watch and I told them that they have the best list going forward.

Hire Peter Jackson
Hire Roos
Replace Grimes and Trengove with Nathan Jones

Is also what I told them.