Movie Star Wars: The Last Jedi. - THREAD PART 1 - *SPOILERS and RUMORS* - Cont. in Part 2

[exe ex machina]

 

[Coolangatta]

Box office numbers doesn't mean shit when it comes to the quality of a movie. Star Wars is the biggest movie franchise in the world, and many many people are going to see it whether it's good or not. Besides, you can't exactly rate a movie during its release if you don't go buy a ticket and see it yourself.

Otherwise, Avatar is the best science fiction movie of all time.

I said audience ratings aren't reflective of a movies popularity, not quality. My example was that Transformers 2, 3 and 4 did shit on both rotten tomatoes scales but still made a **** tonne of money. This is because a lot of people love those movies. None of the new Star Wars movies have gotten bad critic and audience scores yet, so they aren't even close to the drop off Transformers 5 suffered from. Some people are acting as if there is some genuine 50/50 divide about The Last Jedi being good or not. It's just not true. Episode IX is going to do very well at the box office, the people who refuse to go and see it because of TLJ will probably not even make up 1%.

 

[2006_Eagles]

I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth

Are you kidding me? Some of the worst dialogue and characters in sci fi history. An abomination! Ohh but it’s all Star Warsy...ooh ahh...boo hoo

Kasdan and Kurtz used to help clean up the dialogue a lot. When they weren't there for the prequels, this was the result

 

[JackOutback]

Who gives a flying **** what "mainstream critics" say? Most of these pretentious twats aren't into Star Wars at all, and it is in their benefit to give a good score so that Di$ney gives their organisation freebies like early screenings. The only reason it's being "critically acclaimed" is because it has a Star Wars tag on it. Take a look at Cinemascope for Episode 1, they gave it an A- average. No friggin' way it's that high, same for this movie. The audience reviews are what counts, and plenty of them are quite eloquent in pointing out the various flaws, even from people who had low expectations in the first place or aren't necessarily Star Wars fans.

You have no way of knowing how many of those are going back to see it twice/thrice/etc. Considering the relative drop compared to the other films, it is safe to say that a lot of them aren't going for multiple servings. Then there's the fact that people coming back from Christmas/people waiting until now because of the crowd/etc.

If this is a "quality" film then so's Transformers. Some people are saying "oh see it a 2nd time, you'll like it then"... if I have to see it a 2nd time to like it, then it's shit from the beginning. The horrific writing, plot, lack of character development will still be there, possibly magnified.

The idea that movie critics are all somehow on the Disney payroll is the dumbest kind of conspiracy theory. Sure, a movie company can hold back bad reviews by limiting screenings or reviewers but eventually the rest watch and the truth comes out. A movie doesn't get 90% plus reviews without a general consensus. If Disney had that kind of power, explain Pirates for the Caribbean.

Then there's the fact you are tying yourself in knots. Reviewers are pretentious twats that don't like Star Wars but are giving Star Wars good reviews? What?

It's a good movie with a divisive plot point that is angering a small but noisy group of people. But there are also plenty of Star Wars fans not angry at it.

 

[JackOutback]

Look on YouTube the movie is being torn apart
But hey let’s trust the professional critics

Ah yes, YouTube, the home of rational, considered opinion

 

[Strange Cat]

Ah yes, YouTube, the home of rational, considered opinion

Ah random big footy poster , a source of knowledge and expertise

You think you’re above everything as usual

 

[Godchin]

I went in with low expectations because I thought The Force Awakens was garbage, but nothing could have prepared me for how shit The Last Jedi was. Honestly one of the worst and most pointless movies I've ever seen at the cinemas.

Thank god I had free gold class tickets.

 

[Coolangatta]

The idea that movie critics are all somehow on the Disney payroll is the dumbest kind of conspiracy theory. Sure, a movie company can hold back bad reviews by limiting screenings or reviewers but eventually the rest watch and the truth comes out. A movie doesn't get 90% plus reviews without a general consensus. If Disney had that kind of power, explain Pirates for the Caribbean.

Then there's the fact you are tying yourself in knots. Reviewers are pretentious twats that don't like Star Wars but are giving Star Wars good reviews? What?

It's a good movie with a divisive plot point that is angering a small but noisy group of people. But there are also plenty of Star Wars fans not angry at it.

Yeah, this is it, it's just offended fanboys. You can make legitimate gripes about Mary Poppins Leia, perhaps some mistimed jokes and the Finn-Rose subplot, but ultimately it was the death of Snoke, Luke and Rey random that pissed off the noisy minority. You know how I know that? Almost every negative YouTube reviewer brings those points up. Every other complaint I've seen is just nitpicking garbage claims that could easily be made about all of the Star Wars films. Hell, I was one of the people who wanted Snoke and Luke to make it through to IX but for anyone to suggest that this movie was worse than the prequels because of these divisive choices is preposterous.

 

[Janus]

Did this guy even watch the movie? The theme of TLJ isn't Nhilism, it's a balance between the Sefiroth (tree of life) and the Qilpoth (tree of death). A Nhilist wouldn't feel shame or guilt like Luke does. A Nhilist wouldn't try to redeem Kylo Ren like Rey does. A Nhilist wouldn't ask Rey to join him and forget the past like Kylo does. A Nhilist just does what needs to be done to further their desire regardless of morals, because nothing we do or say matters in the end, because there is no reward at the end of your life for doing good or punishment for doing bad.

In short, the guy is clueless.

 

[Strange Cat]

No it’s not worse than the prequels , I would put it down the bottom with TPM and AOTC and just below ROTS.

But it’s nowhere near as good as R1 or the OT

1.TESB
2. R1
3. ANH
4. ROTJ
5. TFA
6. ROTS
7. TLJ/ TPM
8.AOTC

 

[Mootsy]

1. TESB (this is edgy, superb music, great scenes and character arcs everywhere)
2. ANH (it's the first creative idea put to film and its clean and has a lot of memorable scenes)
3. TLJ ( this will age very well i feel because of how epic it is and different, but its not lame like the prequels)
4. ROTJ
5. ROTS (gosh, this is very underrated, it was the best of the prequels from George)
6. TFA (mighty fine film, but very derivative of ANH)
7. RO (this was a great movie, it's just not really fair to be compared)
8. AOTC - (this be underrated though)
9. TPM - (has some pretty good moments but disappointed many)

 

[Coolangatta]

If you go by rotten tomatoes average critical rating (not the percentage), Empire Strikes Back (8.9) and A New Hope (8.6) are still the clear top two. Next tier is The Last Jedi (8.1) and The Force Awakens (8.2). Third tier is close between Revenge of the Sith (7.3), Return of the Jedi (7.2) and Rogue One (7.5). Fourth tier is Attack of the Clones (6.7) and The Phantom Menace (6) in last place. I think that's pretty spot on, ROTJ and R1 are both elevated by their strong conclusions in my view by many people's lists, but overall the top four is pretty clear.

 

[JackOutback]

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TLJ
4. R1
5. ROTJ
6. TFA
7. ROTS
8. TPM
9. AOTC

Closest contest for mine was between R1 and ROTJ. AOTC the clear worst.

 

[HairyO]

If you go by rotten tomatoes average critical rating (not the percentage), Empire Strikes Back (8.9) and A New Hope (8.6) are still the clear top two. Next tier is The Last Jedi (8.1) and The Force Awakens (8.2). Third tier is close between Revenge of the Sith (7.3), Return of the Jedi (7.2) and Rogue One (7.5). Fourth tier is Attack of the Clones (6.7) and The Phantom Menace (6) in last place. I think that's pretty spot on, ROTJ and R1 are both elevated by their strong conclusions in my view by many people's lists, but overall the top four is pretty clear.

Phantom Menace getting a 6 is spot on??? It was truly shit. All the numbers are rubbish because 10,000 votes pop up before the movies even release.

 

[Thrawn]

The idea that movie critics are all somehow on the Disney payroll is the dumbest kind of conspiracy theory. Sure, a movie company can hold back bad reviews by limiting screenings or reviewers but eventually the rest watch and the truth comes out. A movie doesn't get 90% plus reviews without a general consensus. If Disney had that kind of power, explain Pirates for the Caribbean.

Then there's the fact you are tying yourself in knots. Reviewers are pretentious twats that don't like Star Wars but are giving Star Wars good reviews? What?

It's a good movie with a divisive plot point that is angering a small but noisy group of people. But there are also plenty of Star Wars fans not angry at it.

I didn't say they were all on a payroll, or that they're even exclusively being paid for it. Fact remains, Disney is a behemoth and owns some of the companies that hire these movie critics. If you don't think there's any kind of influence there, you're just being naive. Watch the video I posted earlier for more clarification on that. Then you have early screenings, rubbing shoulders with editors, actors, etc. Stuff Disney will invite people to exclusively are going to be for people who don't trash their product. There is an incentive for some to deliberately give a thumbs up to a movie no matter how shit it is. The wide gap between "critical acclaim" and what the general public actually thinks says it all.

Pirates has no where near the pulling power and profit-making that Star Wars has. Disney spent $4 billion to get the franchise for good reason.

 

[JackOutback]

I didn't say they were all on a payroll, or that they're even exclusively being paid for it. Fact remains, Disney is a behemoth and owns some of the companies that hire these movie critics. If you don't think there's any kind of influence there, you're just being naive. Watch the video I posted earlier for more clarification on that. Then you have early screenings, rubbing shoulders with editors, actors, etc. Stuff Disney will invite people to exclusively are going to be for people who don't trash their product. There is an incentive for some to deliberately give a thumbs up to a movie no matter how shit it is. The wide gap between "critical acclaim" and what the general public actually thinks says it all.

Pirates has no where near the pulling power and profit-making that Star Wars has. Disney spent $4 billion to get the franchise for good reason.

You're not making sense. Disney has exactly the same pulling power regardless of which movie it is promoting. And as I said, movie companies may be able to hold back initial poor responses but they simply do not have enough power to manipulate movie reviewers the world over; just ask DC. Shit movies will eventually get shit reviews. There is no Trumpian 'fake news reviews' going on here.

You don't have to like the movie but you can't project your views onto everyone else.

 

[Strange Cat]

Shit movies will eventually get shit reviews.

So like TLJ has been recieving

Glad we cleared that up

 

[Tuco]

Box office numbers doesn't mean shit when it comes to the quality of a movie. Star Wars is the biggest movie franchise in the world, and many many people are going to see it whether it's good or not. Besides, you can't exactly rate a movie during its release if you don't go buy a ticket and see it yourself.

Otherwise, Avatar is the best science fiction movie of all time.

This.

The takings are a different discussion altogether.

Although those hating on TLJ have been using the 68% drop on the second weekend as being meaningful...when it apparently isn't.

 

[Thrawn]

Ah yes, YouTube, the home of rational, considered opinion

As opposed to people deliberately bending backwards to defend a crap movie by ignoring legitimate, valid criticisms with gems like:
You don't understand the subtext
You don't like the film because don't have the emotional intelligence for it
You don't like it because it's not what you expected
You don't like it because you're just a Luke fanboi
Etc.

 

[Thrawn]

You're not making sense. Disney has exactly the same pulling power regardless of which movie it is promoting.

No they don't. Otherwise Pirates has the same pulling power as Star Wars, which is objectively false. You're in la-la land mate.

And as I said, movie companies may be able to hold back initial poor responses but they simply do not have enough power to manipulate movie reviewers the world over; just ask DC. Shit movies will eventually get shit reviews. There is no Trumpian 'fake news reviews' going on here.

Did you even read anything I said?

You don't have to like the movie but you can't project your views onto everyone else.

How am I projecting anything? All I'm saying is you're naive if you only rely on what professional critics say, in an industry that's rife with self-interest. If you have your own personal opinion, that's cool. But don't pretend what professional critics say is worth shit.

When people start saying you need emotional intelligence to like this film, or you're just a fanboi that's where the projection starts.

 

[JackOutback]

So like TLJ has been recieving

Glad we cleared that up

LOL, it's 92 per cent on Rotten Tomatoes and 86 per cent on Metacritic. Or are you talking about some neck beard on YouTube. Again, hate the movie all you like but stop being disengenuous and pretending the majority do; they do not.

 

[JackOutback]

No they don't. Otherwise Pirates has the same pulling power as Star Wars, which is objectively false. You're in la-la land mate.

Disney is Disney; it doesn't become a smaller company with less resources depending on what movie they are promoting. If they can afford to stack screenings for Star Wars with agreeable critics, then they could do it for Pirates. But that's not how it works.

 

[Thrawn]

Disney is Disney; it doesn't become a smaller company with less resources depending on what movie they are promoting. If they can afford to stack screenings for Star Wars with agreeable critics, then they could do it for Pirates. But that's not how it works.

Disney is Disney.

Pirates is not Star Wars.

The fanbase, history, legacy, impact on cinematic history, etc just isn't there.

 

[JackOutback]

Disney is Disney.

Pirates is not Star Wars.

The fanbase, history, legacy, impact on cinematic history, etc just isn't there.

Don't disagree at all, but that has nothing to do with reviews and reviewers. Disney could easily stack a screening with agreeable Star Wars fans unwilling to say a bad word about the film. They could not do the same for critics for any reasonable length of time. The idea that critics are just a paid extension of the movie industry is at odds with everything we have seen. It's lurching into silly fake news conspiracy talk.

 

[Tuco]

I waited until ROTS before judging the prequels. I similarly intend to wait until IX for the ST.

When ROTS came out and having seen the sand speech, flubber Yoda, Ian McDiarmid being allowed to go full panto, the bizarre gonadification of Palpatine's head, Padme's death, Frankenstein Vader, and "Noooooo"...

I felt quite happy dropping the pequels into the bottom 3 and leaving them there in perpetuity.

While I've enjoyed TFA and TLJ, they are also second tier. R1 is 4th probably because it actually felt like the universe was 'right'.

All of this is just an opinion. All SW films have some merit. I'm still enjoying them regardless of the outrage.