Autopsy Hawks: 30 minutes not enough for 4 points...

[Bumpswithagrin]

People bagging Doc, I thought he was OK

Burton having a real case of 2nd year blues... yet to give a yelp this season

Yes, definitely. He will be a good player but you have to expect inconsistency from youngsters.

 

[MadDawg]

How are North a " less talented team"?
This less talented team just blew us away in the first half
They absolutely owned us

Hi Glacier, thanks for your reply.

Winning a single game and talent level are in no way connected.

They won with by applying significantly better effort in the first half.

I hope this clears things up for you.

 

[Rev08]

Embarrassing first half. Almost as embarrassing was some of the posters on the match day thread pinning it on the umpires.

3-2 flatters us. Beaten an ordinary Collingwood and Melbourne and a Geelong team that should have been 0-3. The other 2 games we have been soundly beaten and made the score look ok on junk time.

Our best players this year have been Tom and JOM plus a bunch of blokes 27+. IMO, concerns about our youth are as valid as ever.

 

[hk89]

Well that was humbling. Given who North had beaten and lost to up until today, I really thought we could be sitting top of the ladder after this game given the other results. Like myself and many other fans, it seems that both the match committee and players didn't show enough respect for North. Losing two players out of midfield rotation and replacing them with a guy who has played 3 games and a guy that has been out of form for most of the season says that we thought we could get away with getting some experience into Cousins without risking a loss. Our midfield goes down a level in class when we can't move Cyril through there, and Cousins while a ball magnet at Box Hill probably doesn't help with our midfield class, at least not yet.

Brand really needed to come in. A lot of criticism for Frawley who was giving up 7 centimetres, had to put up with the ball coming in with zero pressure, and seemed to have nobody trying to fill Brown's leading space. Unsurprisingly Frawley got smashed early, but thought he controlled his opponent much better later in the game (with a bit more help from his fellow defenders).

Cyril and Poppy out didn't just hurt our ability to rotate some class through the midfield, we got a woeful return on our inside 50s in the first half, with what looked like very few repeat inside 50s which those two can help generate by pressure applied to opposition as they exit the 50 which was almost completely lacking in the first half. This was partly an issue with the ball getting bombed in, but that wasn't the only problem. I know it is out of fashion, but if we are going to keep doing that, I think we need to consider going with two rucks so we can rest one forward.

With injuries mounting, you don't want to be pulling too many changes, but I finally have to agree with the TOB haters. Was almost invisible again, and surely we have options at Box Hill that can provide more consistent input than what he's been providing? Mitch Lewis kicked another 3 at Box Hill, but I can understand if he's seen as too raw yet to try in the seniors. Schoey can struggle to have impact sometimes too, but at the moment if the choice is between him and TOB, I think you'd need to go with Shoey. Maybe swap TOB out for a second ruck is another option. If Shiels has an injury that will keep him out next week, looks like it might be time to try JOR in the seniors given he's now played a few games at Box Hill without a hamstring ping, and has been in good form.

On the positives, Impey has been an amazing pickup. Almost the only player that looked like he was trying in the first half. Breust is in great form. Hartung didn't really hurt us much. We didn't capitulate in the second half.

 

[OnceKicked50]

What more does Lewis have to do to come in? Has to replace TOB who should be running the water for our kids at City oval, if we were deadset we'd be sending Chip with him. Jono had 36 yesterday, has to come in.

Brown kicked two of his four on Mirra mate. Frawley completely shut him out in the second half.

 

[MinerBoy]

Embarrassing first half. Almost as embarrassing was some of the posters on the match day thread pinning it on the umpires.

3-2 flatters us. Beaten an ordinary Collingwood and Melbourne and a Geelong team that should have been 0-3. The other 2 games we have been soundly beaten and made the score look ok on junk time.

Our best players this year have been Tom and JOM plus a bunch of blokes 27+. IMO, concerns about our youth are as valid as ever.

No one pinned it on the umpires. Our performance was roundly and heavily criticised. The umpires were also called out for having a shit game.

Us being pathetic and them being pathetic aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[WWSD]

Wasn't a 'foot off the gas' thing - was a 'down two players on the bench and our young players were spent' thing.

Genuinely thought the Hawks were gonna steamroll us in the 4th quarter. Happy to win. Would have been much tougher with Cyril/Puopolo though.

Cheers

Burgoyne and Birchall.

 

[Glacier]

Hi Glacier, thanks for your reply.

Winning a single game and talent level are in no way connected.

They won with by applying significantly better effort in the first half.

I hope this clears things up for you.

No it doesn't clear anything up for me
Calling a team that absolutely smacked us " less talented " is pure floggery
I hope I cleared that up for you

 

[kazzooka]

What did we learn from all our losses in 2005 and 2006 seasons when we were developing and getting thrashed every weekend? Or what did we learn in 2009 and 2010 when we were underperforming and losing to teams that we were expected to beat? We must have learned something from them because the end result of both those periods was premierships.

We have very good reasons to trust that our coaching fraternity is learning plenty from every game we play. Especially the ones that go awry.

We learnt that Zac Dawson wasn't good enough. We have now learnt that of Obrien. Someone earlier said that he plays 1 good game in 6. I say he plays 1 adequate game in 6 and is yet to play a truly good game. Even his best games like last week he would not be top 15 for Hawthorn.

 

[MinerBoy]

Brown kicked two of his four on Mirra mate. Frawley completely shut him out in the second half.

Yeah I actually didn't think he was a bad as people are screaming about.

People thinking Brand would have done better haven't watched Brand play IMO.

 

[Adebisi]

Burton now looks like a young raw player instead of the absolute gun he was last year. Has lost his agility and confidence. Coaching staff have to fix this quickly.
.

He has always been pretty straight line...agility has never been great, but yeah it looks worse this season. Maybe the ankle bothering him.
He needs alot of work through the hips, glutes and legs to get some power to move laterally etc.
In saying all that, his confidence looks shot and so does some of his effort.

 

[realhawk]

Cyril is impossible to replac. Worth at least 4 or 5 goals to us, in the goals he kicks sets up or stops. The club can bang on about one soldier down , one soldier in, but’s it’s bullshit, it’s all about personnel. Pops , Cyril, birchall, burgyone and Cegs out we were always up against it. When you give up 5 best 20 player to a full strength side the odds are against you. The number 1 reason Richmond are on top this past year and a bit is because their best side is out their just about every week consistently. If we can’t stabilise we are cooked.

 

[wallyt99]

Some fantastic overreaction in this thread.

We were bad. We started poorly. They knew we would. They planned on it. They executed and capitalised.

We lost it in the first quarter.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Brown kicked two of his four on Mirra mate. Frawley completely shut him out in the second half.

Can't believe people keep bagging Chip for the goals all oppo tall forwards kick!!! Now, I admit, he can look unco out there at times but when the mids don't lay a hand on the opposition bringing the ball in with zero pressure, hitting up forwards on the chest time and time again, then you could have both Lake and Scarlett down back and it won't make a speck of difference!! ! Brand for Frawley ain't the answer, our midfield getting their collective heads out of their collective arses IS!

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

I can't even write fast enough to explain how embarrassing that was. If there was a Box Hill development squad TOB wouldn't be worthy, Ruff looks like a slow suburban full forward, diabolical isn't even the word.

In through the nose and out through the mouth, there is nothing to gain from caring more than the players do.

 

[seysearles]

 

[Rowie6]

You know your going bad when you make Majak Daw look good!

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sicily]

North came to play and we didn’t - simple as that.

Main concern for me, as suggested by others, was the lack of leadership to lift the tean’s Jntensity and momentum when the Kangas were up and about. How that clown (Z something) who dumped Mirra into the fence wasn’t smashed to the ground is beyond me. It would have been worth a free against and possible 50 to show the younger players that we won’t cop that crap.

Time to focus on next week’s game as very little to be learnt from today’s game. A couple of personnel tweaks and we’re a good chance to turn things around against the Saints - Shoe, Burgers and Brand in for TOB, Chip and Glass (latter stiff, however, needs to find confidence and intensity in the magoos - need to give Cousins and Burton another week)

 

[savagelunchbox]

You can't expect to go into a game without scouting your opponent and just expect to win. This falls on the coaching staff.

You can't go into the game expecting your gameplan from your premiership years, where you had elites on every line and versatile elites throughout your team, and expect it to hold up 3 years on with a list full of inexperienced kids who don't have the versatility yet and expect your gameplan to reign supreme. This falls on the coaches.

The plan of quick handballs to stationary targets to draw the opponent before finding the release runner worked in 2013-2015, but it's now been found out. Teams now pressure all the possible receivers and force the turnover through bad and/or hospital handballs.
Opposition are also waiting for the release chip kick knowing it's coming from under pressure and likely to be ineffective.
Eventually, because there isn't a plethora of cool heads with optimal decision making under pressure, the turnover often comes and their transition defense is shocking.
North did that exceptionally well and remained exceptionally disciplined in doing it.

To avoid this happening, the 'plan B' is to play the boundary with high long kicks, which is a stupid idea considering Clarkson has a preference for under-sized players who cannot take contested marks.

Should they manage to get the ball within 70m of goal, the 1st choice is to high it high to the oppositions best mark where there is again no contested marker wearing Hawthorn colours. It's stupid even with Rioli and Puopolo playing because oppositions flood Hawthorns F50 and that's all it takes to beat it.

This is how every game except Geelong's has started this year. Brad Scott, Dimma Hardwick, and Goodwin were all ready for it and Hawthorn got exposed.

Every time when the directive has been to run, create overlapping run, to take chances, and allow the forwards to lead, Hawthorn have looked like a winning side. Beats the hell out of me why the coaching directive has always been to move the ball slowly and go the high bomb. It's horrid, stubborn coaching.

This bad, exposed gameplan has killed the confidence of all the runners from defense. Burton's confidence is shot, Glass's confidence is shot, and Duryea's confidence is waning. They try to run and create, but all they see are players running to the same predetermined space waiting for a high kick, only to see the ball come back almost instantly for a shot on goal.

Urgh!

Credit to Bruest. Fought hard. Lead well. Kicked well.

Our bookends look more cooked than Gibson did last year. Rough doesn't compete with his body anymore and fumbles most times. Has lost his acceleration and agility.
Frawley cannot read the ball, is giving up, is blocking his own teammates and is providing no leadership. Combine those with his exceptionally slow decision making that he thinks are super-computer quick and his skills are elite and you have a KPD who is good for 4 opposition goals a game directly or indirectly.

 

[SA HAWK]

Today should be a big reality check for the team and some of our supporters.

 

[Sicily]

I was there today and had a really good view of the game. This really was a game of two halves. I felt we were out coached in the first half and the game was played on Norths terms. When this happens,like the Richmond game, we just seem to kick the ball long to a contest. North set up so well we couldn't create any run, so really all credit to North. I think it was 57 - 28 marks in favour of North at half-time.

If we somehow managed to be 5 goals down at the half, we win this game and would be sitting pretty at 4-1. We dominated the clearances in the second half, pressure was up and we created turnover and spread. Unfortunately, early in the last we didn't capitalise on the first 10 minutes and that was the game. Disappointing result.

The most disappointing part of today for me was Burton. I watched him closely and can honestly say he was lazy and selfish. He didn't shepherd and he chased half assessed. I think he was dropped to Box Hill because of his defensive efforts and perhaps it wasn't the best idea to bring him straight back after one game.

Great observation re Burton - needs to at least starting doing the one preventers if the rest of his game is not in sync.

Gets one more week to turn it around for mine

 

[JoeHawk]

This is every week until Cyril / Popeye come back & without a Full Back, unless we change the way we go about it - which we don’t

They wouldn’t have helped because the ball hardly made it to our forward line. They smashed us the first half.

 

[MadDawg]

No it doesn't clear anything up for me
Calling a team that absolutely smacked us " less talented " is pure floggery
I hope I cleared that up for you

I can lead you to water bro, but if you're intent on playing the man over the ball you ain't going to get it.

 

[SA HAWK]

They wouldn’t have helped because the ball hardly made it to our forward line. They smashed us the first half.

And when we did get it in we were outnumbered 2-3 to 1.

They marked a lot of balls in our forward line.

 

[Glacier]

I can lead you to water bro, but if you're intent on playing the man over the ball you ain't going to get it.

Nothing about playing the man fella
You came up with the stupid statement in the first place