Coaching Staff Brendon Bolton - Senior Coach - Locked in until end of 2020 (23/5/18)

[Arr0w]

I can see what m182 is saying, there does not seem to be a lot of tolerance for anyone with concerns re how the club is travelling.

The lack of tolerance might be in the delivery or with contant negative opinions.

I have no issues with posters baring their concerns, as long as they also highlight some of positives at the very least.

 

[edgetracker435]

The fundamental question that, unsurprisingly, never really gets answered.

So instead we should... _________________?

Mr Plow,

I don’t have the answer but I don’t get why our coach tells everyone we have more talent than three years ago. You cannot tell me we are more talented without Gibbs, Waite, Henderson, tuohey etc. This is not the case. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and many will offer their opinions but many will not sit here and take as gospel that things will get better because we have been to the draft. First it was 60 games, then 66 and now 88. Seriously what is the average number of games an afl player plays. We are running out of time or we will begin the rebuild of the rebuild.

I can see some talent but unless we surround that talent with experience I am afraid when free agency arrives many more may go. We need to start winning but the team I watched against the bulldogs looked distraught, lost and terribly confused. I think they believed it would just happen. This mentality and confusion rests with the coach.At afl level it just doesn’t happen.

 

[Soapy V]

The lack of tolerance might be in the delivery or with contant negative opinions.

I have no issues with posters baring their concerns, as long as they also highlight some of positives at the very least.

Also, no one actually wants to listen or hear what the club has actually said. They haven't wavered since appointing Bolton/SOS.

No MORE quick fixes
Long term rebuild
66 game list rebuild
Building for long term success
Building a foundation
42 List changes so far
Green Shoots
Journey
Getting games into kids

I mean FFS. We are 2 years and 6 games into it and we have our youngest list and a massive injury list.

Reality here people. What more could you expect?

 

[BLUEBOYS FOREVER]

as opposed to our last 20 years of triumph........

With

Over what period? Two weeks, a month, a year or 5? Hawthorn won the same amount of games under Clarkson as Bolton has had in charge. Everyone wanted his head.

Seemed to work out okay

PS We've been crap for 20 years. New kids, new coach, new culture, new direction. It will all be fine, this is but just a small moment in time .

Hope your right Soapy, last year we were winning games, this year it looks like we will struggle to win a game. Blame injuries etc, but we are
terrible to watch at the moment, barely AFL standard!

 

[Cripps17]

because most people believe it's an overreaction, most people seem to understand the rebuild and are supportive of it. the criticsm and whingeing for most people seems out of touch with reality and the actual facts.

everyone is entitled to their opinions but if people disagree expect them to say so.

Disagreeing is fine, but you're needlessly being antagonistic with terms like:

If you want to whinge and complain that's your right

So what you're saying is you will come back when you can whinge and complain?

the criticsm and whingeing for most people seems out of touch with reality and the actual facts

Only for the Chicken Littles and "want it now, mummy"crowd

If Mickelboy puts his view across like that he'll cop it from more angles even worse.

That what we're doing is correct is not a 'fact'. That being on the bottom with players like Weitering, SOS and SPS showing signs of regressing is not all part of a master plan. That Bolts says we're on the right path when the alternative is to say he's failing and either resign or get sacked doesn't make it so.

Blind faith is fine, it's just a sport after all. Being intolerant of those that don't though and throwing childish retorts is unnecessary and making the board intolerable for many I would presume, at least it is for me.

 

[Soapy V]

Disagreeing is fine, but you're needlessly being antagonistic with terms like:




If Mickelboy puts his view across like that he'll cop it from more angles even worse.

That what we're doing is correct is not a 'fact'. That being on the bottom with players like Weitering, SOS and SPS showing signs of regressing is not all part of a master plan. That Bolts says we're on the right path when the alternative is to say he's failing and either resign or get sacked doesn't make it so.

Blind faith is fine, it's just a sport after all. Being intolerant of those that don't though and throwing childish retorts is unnecessary and making the board intolerable for many I would presume, at least it is for me.

Very selective Cripps. I don't see an issue with any of them. Nothing personal there. They're not all mine anyway. Who said what we are doing is correct is "fact'? As for Blind faith, that's an assumption and far from the truth

 

[Bluandblublu]

Yep. Next question, how would they fit him into the salary cap, right? Hmmmm

They think they can poach whoever they want. They need to be stopped!

 

[mickelboy182]

That what we're doing is correct is not a 'fact'. That being on the bottom with players like Weitering, SOS and SPS showing signs of regressing is not all part of a master plan. That Bolts says we're on the right path when the alternative is to say he's failing and either resign or get sacked doesn't make it so.

Blind faith is fine, it's just a sport after all. Being intolerant of those that don't though and throwing childish retorts is unnecessary and making the board intolerable for many I would presume, at least it is for me.

Perfectly put and precisely what I'm trying to say.
I'm not calling for Bolton's head, I'm not claiming the sky is falling. There are some concerning signs across various aspects of the club at the moment and people seem far more happy to just ignore it and assume everything is going to be fine.

I remember people saying the same things in the mid 2000's. There is no surefire, foolproof method.

 

[thylacine60]

tough times - conflict abounds - what exactly do these naysayers want exactly? to be heard? I've heard - Ok if I respond?

 

[Soapy V]

With

Hope your right Soapy, last year we were winning games, this year it looks like we will struggle to win a game. Blame injuries etc, but we are
terrible to watch at the moment, barely AFL standard!

The important thing for me is that we have learnt and aren't doing the quick fix that has been a problem for 20 years. We have adopted the right process and seem to have the right people in charge. Now it's about getting it right.

Great news is now we are a "chance" of being successful again. Haven't been able to say that for a long long while

 

[RudyBlue]

Apparently saying we aren't tracking where we would hope to be is 'out of touch and reality'?

Unreal.

Nope that's 100% correct. We absolutely would not have planned to be 0-6. We have been pretty darn crap this year.

However, if you projected forward from August 2015 with:

-the list turnover we've had
-our top 4 in the 2017 BnF not playing much football rounds 1-6
-a youthful week to week age profile

Our current position is then entirely possible and you can compare it to the position of many other developing teams, historically and across decades.

Does anyone at the club accept this position? I bloody hope not. It could certainly come about though, couldn't it?

 

[Captain Cripps]

Also, no one actually wants to listen or hear what the club has actually said. They haven't wavered since appointing Bolton/SOS.

No MORE quick fixes
Long term rebuild
66 game list rebuild
Building for long term success
Building a foundation
42 List changes so far
Green Shoots
Journey
Getting games into kids

I mean FFS. We are 2 years and 6 games into it and we have our youngest list and a massive injury list.

Reality here people. What more could you expect?

Well said Soapy V

 

[thylacine60]

Did Einstein really define insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?

No, the Carlton Football Club did circa 1996 - 2015

 

[Soapy V]

With

Hope your right Soapy, last year we were winning games, this year it looks like we will struggle to win a game. Blame injuries etc, but we are
terrible to watch at the moment, barely AFL standard!

Can't disagree with that. Unfortunately the way the AFL system is set up there is no other way.

I'd love to go back to buying Kernahan, Dorotich, Bradley, Naley etc. So much easier and so much more enjoyable and importantly we mostly won

 

[Mr_Plow]

Mr Plow,

I don’t have the answer but I don’t get why our coach tells everyone we have more talent than three years ago. You cannot tell me we are more talented without Gibbs, Waite, Henderson, tuohey etc. This is not the case. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and many will offer their opinions but many will not sit here and take as gospel that things will get better because we have been to the draft. First it was 60 games, then 66 and now 88. Seriously what is the average number of games an afl player plays. We are running out of time or we will begin the rebuild of the rebuild.

I can see some talent but unless we surround that talent with experience I am afraid when free agency arrives many more may go. We need to start winning but the team I watched against the bulldogs looked distraught, lost and terribly confused. I think they believed it would just happen. This mentality and confusion rests with the coach.At afl level it just doesn’t happen.

Great post, edgetracker435.

When Mr. Bolton asserts that we have more talent than three years ago, I am inclined to agree, based upon my own observations. Gibbs is an elite midfielder (without doubt), Waite at his best was an elite forward (but that was sporadic at best), Henderson was a good footballer, Tuohy too. However, despite having these players on our list for many years, we never progressed beyond a semi-final. Unfortunately, they are nearing the end of their respective AFL tenures.

On the other hand, you cannot also tell me that the likes of Cripps, Curnow, Marchbank, Fisher and Dow are less talented than the aforementioned? If so, I would absolutely disagree with you, as would many external to this debate.

Nonetheless, the draft is not a guarantee. There are no guarantees in modern football. This rebuild may yet culminate in just another semi-final berth and we may have to go again in 8-10 years. And that's okay, because this was the highest probability play given the dire hand that we were dealt.

 

[RudyBlue]

I remember people saying the same things in the mid 2000's. There is no surefire, foolproof method.

I have concerns atm too. We're not guaranteed to succeed. Even if we have a plan, mistakes will be made along the way. Tweaks can be made too.

Throwing our arms up at round 6 and tearing PP down isn't going to help. That's for weak clubs.

 

[RudyBlue]

Nonetheless, the draft is not a guarantee. There are no guarantees in modern football. This rebuild may yet culminate in just another semi-final berth and we may have to go again in 8-10 years. And that's okay, because this was the highest probability play given the dire hand that we were dealt.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

I have concerns atm too. We're not guaranteed to succeed. Even if we have a plan, mistakes will be made along the way. Tweaks can be made too.

Throwing our arms up at round 6 and tearing PP down isn't going to help. That's for weak clubs.

For 20 odd years our club has been weak RudyBlue. It will be interesting to see if the board still has the resolve to keep their balls under the guillotine.

 

[HARKER]

I can see some talent but unless we surround that talent with experience I am afraid when free agency arrives many more may go. We need to start winning but the team I watched against the bulldogs looked distraught, lost and terribly confused. I think they believed it would just happen. This mentality and confusion rests with the coach.At afl level it just doesn’t happen.

Worrying about any of our players leaving for Free Agency is probably the last thing the CFC are worried about right now.
Who are we worried for losing for several years yet?

The blowtorch is on the club and how we handle the tough times will determine just how good or bad we'll be in the future.
My feelings and a little common sense tells me that if the board initiated this program we're going through, they can't just bail on it, on too short a notice and I don't think they will.
Could someone else try coming over the top though? It's possible.

 

[RudyBlue]

Assuming the 66 game rebuild is the strategy, with strong investment in the 2015-2018 drafts, that means our intended future stars won't be peaking, as a group, until ~2022, assuming players enter their peak around 22.

There is absolutely no way SOS can build a finals side, from the draft, by 2019.

 

[RudyBlue]

For 20 odd years our club has been weak RudyBlue. It will be interesting to see if the board still has the resolve to keep their balls under the guillotine.

Absolutely, this year could be make or break from an admin POV.

It's more than a little uncomfortable.

 

[thylacine60]

I think it's important to note all Carlton supporters one way or the other are unhappy with the current state of affairs. Emotions range between mild unease to rabid pitchfork gatherings - and everything in between. Patience is seen as too passive by one lot, burning down PP seen as too dramatic by the other. Discussions are going to get edgy, please don't suggest because more than one person disagrees with you that you are being block attacked. We're all just showing our support in different ways. My way is the best way of course but many others have valid comments as well.

 

[Arr0w]

Perfectly put and precisely what I'm trying to say.
I'm not calling for Bolton's head, I'm not claiming the sky is falling. There are some concerning signs across various aspects of the club at the moment and people seem far more happy to just ignore it and assume everything is going to be fine.

I remember people saying the same things in the mid 2000's. There is no surefire, foolproof method.

Mickey, perhaps also celebrate the wins, rather than only showing yourself when you have an axe to grind, then perhaps people will be more open to your concerns, just sayin

 

[Brutalitops]

Assuming the 66 game rebuild is the strategy, with strong investment in the 2015-2018 drafts, that means our intended future stars won't be peaking, as a group, until ~2022, assuming players enter their peak around 22.

There is absolutely no way SOS can build a finals side, from the draft, by 2019.

Im confident we'll play finals in 2019. Need to fix the midfield first, but this is quicker done than developing key forwards and backs. We have the tall timber front and back developing nicely for the first time in... well... ****. Ever? If Curnow and McKay continue to hit their straps, Doc comes back and leads the back 6, we'll be laughing.

Just need to get some A grade midfielders at the end of the year. Our future aint as bleak as some are making out.

 

[mickelboy182]

Nonetheless, the draft is not a guarantee. There are no guarantees in modern football. This rebuild may yet culminate in just another semi-final berth and we may have to go again in 8-10 years. And that's okay, because this was the highest probability play given the dire hand that we were dealt.

Sensible post that echoes precisely what I am thinking. Too many getting ahead of themselves, just as many thinking it is do or die.

We all hope this rebuild is the right path, and surely we can all acknowledge that there are some troubling signs that in reality outweigh the positive ones at the present time, due to a number of factors.