Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[DangerousD]

Winning is not culture

Winning is a result

Culture does not happen overnight, it is an investment into a long term vision that requires strength of character to stay the course, rather than taking short term options because of extetnal noise or pressure

It does not require the best players, coach or game plan, it requires total buy in

Have you heard or read Paul Roos comments on the phycolgical impacts losing had on the group/club?
He seemed to think it was a hard habit to shake.

I agree winning is not culture but it’s a mentality and a mindset that can filter through a club.

 

[Soapy V]

Would have been just fine with your 2 cents, but this works too

May also depend if we can get Gaff? I would much rather keep Pick One or trade for McGovern and Pick 7. Can still get a number of more mature players to step straight in. 1 or 2 of Wallis Dahlhaus GHS Lester etc. Trade a 2019 pick for Brodie/Scrimshaw. Maybe another Lang/Kennedy type?

Just can't see us putting all our eggs in the one basket

 

[Nori]

I just can't see it. Pick One for Shiel?

There is so much you can do with Pick One. Get the best young player. Trade it for 2-3 picks or very good players.

If SOS traded Pick One plus for Shiel I would be amazed. My belief is we will either keep it or trade it for multiple players/picks

Yes, and then they would end up with multiple B-Graders. Carlton desperately needs A-Graders, especially in the midfield.

 

[Metalcrusher]

May also depend if we can get Gaff? I would much rather keep Pick One or trade for McGovern and Pick 7. Can still get a number of more mature players to step straight in. 1 or 2 of Wallis Dahlhaus GHS Lester etc. Trade a 2019 pick for Brodie/Scrimshaw. Maybe another Lang/Kennedy type?

Just can't see us putting all our eggs in the one basket

Still a way we can jag both Gaff and Shiel this year if cards fall our way (I'm a little more pessimistic on gaining Gaff's services though) and still keep a live pick in the first round.

If SOS manages to pull that off ….. WOWEE >>>>>> OH BOY >>>>>>>

I wont need to build a statue of SOS …. I'll have my own!

 

[Nori]

He chooses a club. No other clubs are involved. He will get what he is worth

Isn't that the point of the discussion? What is he worth?

You need to be realistic. What is Cripps worth and then work back from there.

 

[Metalcrusher]

I would honestly rather pay Shiel $200k per year more if we could get him through free agency in 2019, rather than trading a top 10 pick for him in 2018.

E.g Shiel in 2018 cost $750k but costs at minimum a top 10 pick.
Shiel in 2019 cost $950k through FA.

I’ll take option B every time.

That offer (unless of course if Shiel nominates Carlton) … could substantially increase if say three other clubs were involved in the bidding war … which is what Nori alluded too.

 

[thylacine60]

#newwhippingboyintown

let's face it, this bloke has jordan russell written all over him..........

 

[Metalcrusher]

let's face it, this bloke has jordan russell written all over him..........

calm down 50 shades …..

 

[Stamos]

May also depend if we can get Gaff?

I think it's pretty clear that we can't.

 

[branedotorg]

I think it's pretty clear that we can't.

pretty sure we're getting gaff, sloane, lunch and shiel, all for unders

 

[Nori]

I would honestly rather pay Shiel $200k per year more if we could get him through free agency in 2019, rather than trading a top 10 pick for him in 2018.

E.g Shiel in 2018 cost $750k but costs at minimum a top 10 pick.
Shiel in 2019 cost $950k through FA.

I’ll take option B every time.

And what about the other benefits that you have ignored? It won't change your mind I'm sure, but it doesn't come down to 200K for pick 1. That is completely misleading.

 

[tencentpiece]

Gaff isn't on the table FWIW, it's why you saw SOS come out talking about bottom clubs needing a helping hand landing FA's. He's not interested in coming to Carlton.

 

[Nori]

pretty sure we're getting gaff, sloane, lunch and shiel, all for unders

Well if you're throwing in lunch, deal done!

 

[Metalcrusher]

Gaff isn't on the table FWIW, it's why you saw SOS come out talking about bottom clubs needing a helping hand landing FA's. He's not interested in coming to Carlton.

Kinda figured as much … but it was nice to dream ….

 

[thylacine60]

Gaff isn't on the table FWIW, it's why you saw SOS come out talking about bottom clubs needing a helping hand landing FA's. He's not interested in coming to Carlton.

we never wanted him in the first place - even his name is a mistake

 

[Metalcrusher]

we never wanted him in the first place - even his name is a mistake

 

[Soapy V]

Still a way we can jag both Gaff and Shiel this year if cards fall our way (I'm a little more pessimistic on gaining Gaff's services though) and still keep a live pick in the first round.

If SOS manages to pull that off ….. WOWEE >>>>>> OH BOY >>>>>>>

I wont need to build a statue of SOS …. I'll have my own!

If I was to call it now, I reckon

Keep Pick One
Get 2 x FA's like Dahlhaus & Lester
Trade Pick 30 for a very good player
Keep Pick 20
Use Pick 64 for BSOS
Trade 2nd round plus 2019 for Scrimshaw/Brodie
There will be a trade surprise
Some SOS gold with Pick 80 & rookies. Some will be kids and some 25 year olds
Based on previous trades we will also get a few picks back

5-6 good 22-25 year olds and 5-6 young talnted players would be perfect and make us much better in 2019

 

[I bleed Blue]

Yeah nah don't think that bit is part of SOS/Bolts plans.

I'm just spitballing ideas. And personally I like Harry and think he can be a player.

But I can tell you Sos/bolts plan is to build a premiership list. Any trades or opportunities to get us there should and will be looked at.

Before this rebuild is done one or more of the kids we have brought in through the last 3 drafts will be traded. Our list is not settled yet and we still have to make more moves.

I think sos has already proven he is willing to trade players if it benifits our end goal.

 

[King Karl]

And what about the other benefits that you have ignored? It won't change your mind I'm sure, but it doesn't come down to 200K for pick 1. That is completely misleading.

I actually used a top 10 pick, because I believe pick 1 is completely out of the question for a player who is a free agent next year.

I completely understands the benefits of getting Shiel this year, I’m actually all for it..providing the price is right.

What is the right price for Shiel? If GWS make the prelim next year, they’ll receive ~pick 14 for compensation. With a bit of luck with injuries I think that’s a plausible result. So our offer this year needs to be at worst better than pick 14. That’s without factoring in compensation for GWS not having him in 2019. So we would need to offer the equivalent of ~pick 8-10 this year?

That is not the right price. Much rather wait 12 months, pay an inflated salary and keep our draft picks.

 

[Stamos]

pretty sure we're getting gaff, sloane, lunch and shiel, all for unders

Excited about lunch

 

[Metalcrusher]

If I was to call it now, I reckon

Keep Pick One
Get 2 x FA's like Dahlhaus & Lester
Trade Pick 30 for a very good player
Keep Pick 20
Use Pick 64 for BSOS
Trade 2nd round plus 2019 for Scrimshaw/Brodie
There will be a trade surprise
Some SOS gold with Pick 80 & rookies. Some will be kids and some 25 year olds

Reckon SOS is going to get a bit more tricky than that this year …….

You don't think we are going to land Shiel? I reckon CFC has their sights set ….. If we trade 2019 1st … we wanna be REAL sure the list is chock full of 18/19/20 talent and that's the base from which to build...…..

 

[Jell]

I'd be sussing out how keen Gold Coast are to replace potentially both their Captains. If Lynch and May both leave, they are really going to need to replenish their spine. Assuming they finish 17th, they should get pick 3 as compo for Lynch. I'd see if they were keen to do 1 and a second round for 3 and Brodie/Scrimshaw (potentially both). They could take Lukosius and a King brother to replace their bookends, we could nab Walsh or Smith with 3 and look to trade a future first for Shiel.

 

[Soapy V]

Reckon SOS is going to get a bit more tricky than that this year …….

You don't think we are going to land Shiel? I reckon CFC has their sights set ….. If we trade 2019 1st … we wanna be REAL sure the list is chock full of 18/19/20 talent and that's the base from which to build...…..

I don't think it will be this year we get Shiel. I am sure SOS has a heap of things in the works.

 

[Nori]

I actually used a top 10 pick, because I believe pick 1 is completely out of the question for a player who is a free agent next year.....

I guarantee you that if it was only going to take a top 10 pick to get Shiel then there would be at least 5 other teams competing with Carlton for his services. That’s not realistic at all imo.

 

[Accidental genius]

If I was to call it now, I reckon

Keep Pick One
Get 2 x FA's like Dahlhaus & Lester
Trade Pick 30 for a very good player
Keep Pick 20
Use Pick 64 for BSOS
Trade 2nd round plus 2019 for Scrimshaw/Brodie
There will be a trade surprise
Some SOS gold with Pick 80 & rookies. Some will be kids and some 25 year olds

He would be a great get...just what we need... but dogs would have rocks in their heads to let go of him...