Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 8

[RussellEbertHandball]

We've seen Wingard, Wines, Dixon, Jonas, Ryder, Motlop, Gray, Ebert in the earlier days as well as Boak perform at an elite standard in different periods of their careers.. the problem is the second tier of this group that have completely stagnatated or gone backwards as well as the trust in players like Amon, S.Gray, Pittard, Thomas, Neade at times/watts. It's all coaching.

Dixon isnt a star
Ebert isn't a star
Boak isnt a star
Wines isnt a star
Jonas isnt a star
Motlop isnt a star

Gray, Wingard and Ryder are stars because they consistently deliver and have through out their whole careers. Personally I reckon Westhoff is a star. It took me to mid 2016 to work out how good a player he really is.

We have under performed to our expectations - yes.

But I have come to the conclusion we arent as good as we think we are. Stuff the Champion Data figures where numbers have been padded out when we are flat track bullies and we have so many elite and above average performers by those stats.

We have a team that struggles to make good decisions and perform basic skills when the heat is on for 4 quarters. We have patches where we turn it on but we arent a 4 quarter machine team.

I have said I dont pick best 22 in the evolving best 22 thread. I pick best 16 because the bottom 6 will always be in and out with form, match up and injury selection issues. Our bottom 6 - like the majority of sides in the comp ie about 14 others - is flaky.

Last year one of the guys that does analytics and publish their stuff on twitter, think it was the HPN guys, used the phrase Top 4, Middle Class and Cellar Dwellers.

Last year and this year we thought we could be Top 4. But we were and are just Middle Class.

 

[edgie]

Coaches trying to protect a one goal lead in the dying moments will have their hands tied somewhat at the centre bounce... can picture the farcial scenes as 6 forwards do the 100 metre sprint into defence.

Ridiculous and unnecessary rule change.

Yeah, I hate it

Like the solution to the grand final replay, the AFL has made it worse.

Sent from mTalk

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Massive excuse but I reckon we miss the form of Hartlett before he went down.

Was almost gonna put something in about Hartlett in my other reply but he cant do anything for us in 2018.

 

[DaTBird187]

I think we need a kick up the arse and I hope the club takes this sort of criticism on board.

But I'm not sure what makes us such monumental underachievers. There are clear deficiencies in our playing list and we don't have a genuine star player according to the Vic media. Oh sure they will say Robbie Gray is right up there but when push comes to shove, Devon Smith is apparently a better player.

As far as umpiring whingeing goes, plenty of clubs do it and we probably have more justification than most.

I would think Geelong have been a much bigger underachiever over the past 5 years.

For all the grandstanding about Sydney, they've managed one premiership in a period where on talent and help from AFL house they should have won three at least.

 

[DaTBird187]

Don't see how this will change anything

Faster ball ups without Ruck Nominations would be 10 x more effective at the exact time most of the congestion occurs

Congestion is of the AFL's making. Scrape that idiotic rule and throwing it up in an instant would solve a majority of congestion issues. That and calling holding the ball and ball ups much faster.

 

[Janus]

There's a reason why we were singled out at this point in time. It's because Roos and Lyon would have looked at our ball movement against GWS and said 'You know what? If these guys just brought the hunger for the contest to the first half that they brought to the second half, and stopped complaining about what other teams get away with, they could really do something this year. Let's give them a bit of a shake up. That way, we can point to ourselves as being the catalyst for change.'

Hermes Trismegistus - known to Greeks as Hermes and to Egyptians at Thoth - known as the thrice (Tris) greatest (megistus) because of his mastery of all planes of existence (he was also the creator of writing) said that there are 7 principles by which the entire universe is governed. They are:

1. The Principle of Mentalism - in order to manifest something physically, it must first be manifested mentally. Thought precedes action. If you believe something won't work...it won't work. If you believe something will work...it will work. And if two people are at odds regarding whether something will or won't work...the stronger belief will win out.

2. The Principle of Correspondence - what happens in the microcosm, happens in the macrocosm. As we do anything, so we do everything. So when a player picks and chooses when they are going to attack the contest, they also pick and choose when they are going to run, when they are going to turn up to play etc.

3. The Principle of Vibration and 4. The Principle of Polarity - everything is in a constant state of movement, either from positive to negative or negative to positive, depending on perspective. In a football perspective, this means that the most stingiest defence can be seen as a blunted form of attack, and the most awesome attack can be seen as a muted form of defence. What governs the difference is how fast the movement is between the two states and the extremes in which they operate under.

5. The Principle of Rhythm - since everything is in a constant state of movement between polarities, it stands to reason that the space in between polarities will swing back and forth. In a game, this happens during a match - turnover, attack, turnover/score, defend...back and forth. Anyone who believes that a side can focus on one extreme or the other and be successful is doomed to failure. A hard defending team must be a hard attacking team...because otherwise a hard defending team will be attacked hard.

6. The Principle of Cause and Effect - 'Chance is but a name for a law not recognised'. Nothing could illustrate this better than the selection of Karl Amon. The team refuses to run and spread after winning the contest, so the coaches select Amon, who is a good runner with decent speed. But Amon is poor at winning the contest, and the rest of the side looks at his selection and thinks that run and spread must be of greater importance than winning the contest. So the team refuses to win the contest, preferring to get into position to run and spread. So the coaches drop Amon to bring in someone with greater thirst for the contest, which creates a refusal to run and spread after winning the contest. That is cause and effect in action.

7. The Principle of Gender - everything has a masculine and feminine aspect. In football, the masculine aspect reflects action, bravado, risk taking, while the feminine aspect reflects consideration and calculation. You cannot have one without the other, and focusing on one aspect at the detriment of the other creates a player that is either too reckless and unpredictable or too timid and robotic. Successful teams marry both aspects.

We started on the right path against GWS. Not every side in the competition is going to have the ability at stoppages they have. In fact, no team in the competition has the ability at stoppages they have. Get Ryder, Jonas and Motlop into that side, and more importantly, keep Dixon in the forward line where his competitiveness is best suited.

 

[El Zorro]

We dont have that many stars - otherwise we wouldnt have under achieved.

Stars deliver in the big moments against the best oppo. We dont have more than 2 or 3 of them.

Kinda egg or chicken situation, isn't it?

 

[Adz2332]

stupid question, the magpies training this wed night at 5pm, will trengove be there? seeing he was an emergency?

 

[edgie]

Bang

Sent from mTalk

 

[El Zorro]

For all the grandstanding about Sydney, they've managed one premiership in a period where on talent and help from AFL house they should have won three at least.

I am counting 2016.

 

[mic59]

Congestion is of the AFL's making. Scrape that idiotic rule and throwing it up in an instant would solve a majority of congestion issues. That and calling holding the ball and ball ups much faster.

Definitely, but it will never happen. The afl would have to
1. Admit they were wrong with one of their rule changes and
2. Award more frees and have more stoppages. Wouldn't matter that things would move faster and smoother, the bean counters would just look at the numbers and say we're worse off.

 

[LFC2010]

Brisbane are going to challenge the T Cutler suspension.

I do hope they win for the melts it will cause.

 

[El Zorro]

All supporters tend to overate players as well. I reckon we 'think' on paper some of our players are better than what they are. After 3 years of underachieving I think they are what they show.

Again, which comes first: average players or bad coaches that can't develop players and winning gameplans? Look what the crows achieved last season with a pretty average side.

 

[snozulu]

There's a few openings for reporters in the Seven Adelaide newsroom at the moment but the Story Producer gig really caught my eye...

View attachment 532117

Love this gold

 

[Tibbs]

....
4. The Principle of Polarity - everything is in a constant state of movement, either from positive to negative or negative to positive, depending on perspective. In a football perspective, this means that the most stingiest defence can be seen as a blunted form of attack, and the most awesome attack can be seen as a muted form of defence. What governs the difference is how fast the movement is between the two states and the extremes in which they operate under.

Now, do I press the Ignore, or Like button!

 

[OneGreatClub]

Now, do I press the Ignore, or Like button!

Perhaps go for the confused button

 

[OneGreatClub]

Chad Cornes to be on fiveAA this pm. Should be refreshing.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

For all the grandstanding about Sydney, they've managed one premiership in a period where on talent and help from AFL house they should have won three at least.

Since Longmire took over in 2011 - 1 flag, 2 grand finals loses - 1 was subject to some bloody dodgy umpiring and 1 when the 3 time heavyweight champion physically beat them up by half time, 2 Fourths - 1 out in straight sets in 2015, a 6th and last year finished 5th after doing what nobody else has done, make the finals when they were 0-6 and riddled with injuries. Where would we finish if we started the season 0-6 and riddled with injuries.

They haven't had that many stars. Goodes, Kennedy and Hanneberry yes. Buddy then came along thanks to COLA and pissed off the AFL they nabbed him from GWS. Henney and Mills will be stars but aren't there yet. Tippett was supposed to be a star, was paid like one but was a dud. How many people on here have referred to him as spud Tippett over the years? And they had the guts to put a Canadian on the rookie list to ruck who helped win them a flag.

Getting rid of Mumford so they could squeeze in Buddy and Spud Tippett was a massive mistake by them.

They have played 9 or 10 ex rookied listed players regularly play this year. Count them- Foote, Papley,
Cunningham, Jack, Sinclair, Rampe, Ronke, Robinson, Newman, Naismith, Grundy, Nick Smith. That's not star power, that is star systems - development, recruitment, selection, etc.

They have great team players and great systems that doesn't see them being a flaky side. Just in 2018 they struggle to win at home and find it easier to win away from home.

I'd take their record any day. They get to Top 4 and not being a Vic side, they give themselves a great chance to get to the GF. They have probably come up 1 flag short IMO. A little bit different umpiring in 2016 might have seen that 2nd flag. When they get the chance to elevate themselves to top 4 and lock it in, they take their chances, not panic and wet their pants and stuff up like we have done the last 2 seasons.

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

Absolutely agree with Roos- this squad is lazy and protected by Ken. No wonder so many individuals want to come to Port - coast through the last few years of their contracts while Ken protects them. We have been called downhill skiers on so many occasions, we just don't want to work hard enough.

We will never achieve anything and this seems acceptable.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

RICHMOND has become the first club to ever break the 100,000-member mark.

The club's had a membership target of 90,000, which it hit in April.

As of Tuesday, the Tigers had 100,063 signed up. Richmond finished 2017 with 75,777 members.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Absolutely agree with Roos- this squad is lazy and protected by Ken. No wonder so many individuals want to come to Port - coast through the last few years of their contracts while Ken protects them. We have been called downhill skiers on so many occasions, we just don't want to work hard enough.

We will never achieve anything and this seems acceptable.

Au Contraire. Chad Cornes just said this is the hardest working bunch he has ever worked with. I have heard this comment from many others too.
I don’t believe player laziness is the issue, more likely player confusion.

 

[Power Girl]

RICHMOND has become the first club to ever break the 100,000-member mark.

The club's had a membership target of 90,000, which it hit in April.

As of Tuesday, the Tigers had 100,063 signed up. Richmond finished 2017 with 75,777 members.

Wow 25,000 bandwagoners, impressive.

 

[Killer Power]

There's a reason why we were singled out at this point in time. It's because Roos and Lyon would have looked at our ball movement against GWS and said 'You know what? If these guys just brought the hunger for the contest to the first half that they brought to the second half, and stopped complaining about what other teams get away with, they could really do something this year. Let's give them a bit of a shake up. That way, we can point to ourselves as being the catalyst for change.'

Hermes Trismegistus - known to Greeks as Hermes and to Egyptians at Thoth - known as the thrice (Tris) greatest (megistus) because of his mastery of all planes of existence (he was also the creator of writing) said that there are 7 principles by which the entire universe is governed. They are:

1. The Principle of Mentalism - in order to manifest something physically, it must first be manifested mentally. Thought precedes action. If you believe something won't work...it won't work. If you believe something will work...it will work. And if two people are at odds regarding whether something will or won't work...the stronger belief will win out.

2. The Principle of Correspondence - what happens in the microcosm, happens in the macrocosm. As we do anything, so we do everything. So when a player picks and chooses when they are going to attack the contest, they also pick and choose when they are going to run, when they are going to turn up to play etc.

3. The Principle of Vibration and 4. The Principle of Polarity - everything is in a constant state of movement, either from positive to negative or negative to positive, depending on perspective. In a football perspective, this means that the most stingiest defence can be seen as a blunted form of attack, and the most awesome attack can be seen as a muted form of defence. What governs the difference is how fast the movement is between the two states and the extremes in which they operate under.

5. The Principle of Rhythm - since everything is in a constant state of movement between polarities, it stands to reason that the space in between polarities will swing back and forth. In a game, this happens during a match - turnover, attack, turnover/score, defend...back and forth. Anyone who believes that a side can focus on one extreme or the other and be successful is doomed to failure. A hard defending team must be a hard attacking team...because otherwise a hard defending team will be attacked hard.

6. The Principle of Cause and Effect - 'Chance is but a name for a law not recognised'. Nothing could illustrate this better than the selection of Karl Amon. The team refuses to run and spread after winning the contest, so the coaches select Amon, who is a good runner with decent speed. But Amon is poor at winning the contest, and the rest of the side looks at his selection and thinks that run and spread must be of greater importance than winning the contest. So the team refuses to win the contest, preferring to get into position to run and spread. So the coaches drop Amon to bring in someone with greater thirst for the contest, which creates a refusal to run and spread after winning the contest. That is cause and effect in action.

7. The Principle of Gender - everything has a masculine and feminine aspect. In football, the masculine aspect reflects action, bravado, risk taking, while the feminine aspect reflects consideration and calculation. You cannot have one without the other, and focusing on one aspect at the detriment of the other creates a player that is either too reckless and unpredictable or too timid and robotic. Successful teams marry both aspects.

We started on the right path against GWS. Not every side in the competition is going to have the ability at stoppages they have. In fact, no team in the competition has the ability at stoppages they have. Get Ryder, Jonas and Motlop into that side, and more importantly, keep Dixon in the forward line where his competitiveness is best suited.

Yeah, that's exactly what Roos and Lyon were thinking....

 

[OneGreatClub]

Wow 25,000 bandwagoners, impressive.

Yeah, it even rivals the Crows 20k fake email members.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Brisbane are going to challenge the T Cutler suspension.

I do hope they win for the melts it will cause.

I laughed when I saw the non issue with the other 2 'hits'