Strategy Trade and List management Thread (cont in Part 2)

[go you pups]

True

But they have also been able to recruit walk up best 22 year on year out so that keeps the depth as depth.

We haven’t so the depth gets more games than it should as they both proved this year.

We need to get to that level, but you gotta remember, they lost Buddy, Suckling, Christensen, Motlop etc also, while the Cats retained absolutely gash depth types like Smedts and Cowan long term (you can make a case for the likes of Thurlow and GHS also), and all their injury prone small forwards like McCarthy and Gregson probably because of the minimum wage/guarantees they'd be kept on as long term depth as the way they aggressively traded saw them with a hoard of late picks around the 4th/5th round range. I'd imagine Geelong saw these mediocre depth types as better than they could get from the draft and used their VFL side to top up other list spots. Tom Stewart for example is a great example of their recruiting strategy.

Honey should be around the 35th player mark on our list and Jong around the 25-30 range, but injuries keep these guys relevant, imo a review of fitness staff and training programs would be best for us so they aren't anywhere near the team regularly.

 

[Fossie 32]

Excuse my ignorance but what the hell is a backyard membership ?

It's a kid's membership they give out to schools or used to. Was about $50 from memory

 

[Mattdougie]

We need to get to that level, but you gotta remember, they lost Buddy, Suckling, Christensen, Motlop etc also, while the Cats retained absolutely gash depth types like Smedts and Cowan long term (you can make a case for the likes of Thurlow and GHS also), and all their injury prone small forwards like McCarthy and Gregson probably because of the minimum wage/guarantees they'd be kept on as long term depth as the way they aggressively traded saw them with a hoard of late picks around the 4th/5th round range. I'd imagine Geelong saw these mediocre depth types as better than they could get from the draft and used their VFL side to top up other list spots. Tom Stewart for example is a great example of their recruiting strategy.

Honey should be around the 35th player mark on our list and Jong around the 25-30 range, but injuries keep these guys relevant, imo a review of fitness staff and training programs would be best for us so they aren't anywhere near the team regularly.

The hawks bought in Lake Gibson McEvoy Hale Frawley Burgoyne Omeara Mitchell

The cats Danger Ablett Henderson Touhy and a few that slip my mind

 

[Mattdougie]

It's a kid's membership they give out to schools or used to. Was about $50 from memory

Done Pm me your details I will transfer the money as we speak

 

[Norm De Guerre]

What if the contract on the table was insulting and intended to be that way?
Sometimes the club is to blame.

What if the the length of contract was the issue, or he wanted a fresh start after 2 seasons of less than stellar performances or indeed he was unhappy with the rehab that he was offered by the club considering you often claim that he has been playing injured? Not being in possession of actual facts we could literally do legitimate or increasingly ridiculous hypotheticals all day long. For mine the most ridiculous is the one where we actually offered him 350K knowing full well that the cats have had a reported 500+ on the table for quite some weeks.

Sometimes a player just wants a little extra security when it comes to a finite career and no-one is to blame.

 

[jdz101]

Foregoing the Dahlhaus compensation by signing any of the current RFAs or UFAs outside of Gaff as a free agent would be a truly bonkers move. Would have to be a trades or DFAs surely.

I agree. I really hope it's DFAs and we get to keep some sort of compensation for dahlhaus without burning it on west. It would be a really tough pill to swallow to walk away a clear loser when we could have just kept Dahl.

Will all reveal itself in time.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Sometimes they do. It doesn't mean I have to like or agree with it.


I don't agree with the narrative that his 2017 was all that different from the aforementioned other years. And I have it on good authority that he played with a significant knee injury this year. Further the type of player he is thrives in a good team, couple that with him hitting prime age and I think Geelong will be very happy with their acquisition.

Stats since 2015 suggest he’s declined in most of the key areas of his game.
Fair enough about the knee this year but that doesn’t explain the other years.
I’m not giving that excuse as to why trade him but you can’t ignore these things. We also cant ignore the fact we have to manage the WHOLE list over the next few years including Bonts and a number of future stars. I’m tipping this coupled with the lack of form lead to the clubs offer which may seem lowballed but most likely will turn out to be good Managment. Time will tell

 

[jdz101]

Any idea who? Unless they are players who would garner their own picks around the one we get for Dahl they won't make ours disappear entirely, right?

No idea how it works.

Just heard that the club may try to bring in a free agent or two for some experience.

Considering rough also likely gone it opens up a few types of player we might go for.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

After reading the Geelong board I don’t think they actually know who they are getting..

I’m a big Dahl fan. Think when he’s on he’s a contested machine who although has his faults would jump on a grenade if it meant getting the four points.

A goal kicking small forward he is not...

 

[immortalmike]

Stats since 2015 suggest he’s declined in most of the key areas of his game.
Fair enough about the knee this year but that doesn’t explain the other years.
I’m not giving that excuse as to why trade him but you can’t ignore these things. We also cant ignore the fact we have to manage the WHOLE list over the next few years including Bonts and a number of future stars. I’m tipping this coupled with the lack of form lead to the clubs offer which may seem lowballed but most likely will turn out to be good Managment. Time will tell

Stats are nice. I prefer to watch games.

 

[TiAn_]

I suspect we’ll look at Dahl going the same way Hawks would look at Suckling going, or similar players.

He’s a player that does some things well and some things poorly, like Suckling. Another team valued those things more and was willing to pay for them. And the player was happy to leave.

These moves aren’t always a zero sum game.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Stats are nice. I prefer to watch games.

The funny thing is that the stats, which were posted on here within the last few days, support most peoples views that his form had dropped between 2015/18. Those views were gathered from watching games. The stats just back that up.

 

[go you pups]

The hawks bought in Lake Gibson McEvoy Hale Frawley Burgoyne Omeara Mitchell

The cats Danger Ablett Henderson Touhy and a few that slip my mind

Gibson, Hale, Burgoyne etc were before free agency started

The rest fair enough and were all brought in while they were contending/top 8 staples (both teams have missed the finals only once since 2010)

I'm sure Hawthorn and Geelong have retained better players than Dahl in that period for less money than what he was on/offered too. It's far easier to retain players when teams are playing well rather than when they're rebuilding it seems.

Would love to see how Geelong in particular go about things once Taylor, Jelwood, Hawkins etc reach the cliff as imo Hawthorns list dynamic is in much better shape long term than what Geelongs is because alot of their better players are in the right age group, like Titchell, Jaegar, Sicily, Burton, Gunston, Hardwick, Shiels etc, that's pretty much their core midfielders and small/medium defender rotation set for the next 5 years minimum.

 

[immortalmike]

The funny thing is that the stats, which were posted on here within the last few days, support most peoples views that his form had dropped between 2015/18. Those views were gathered from watching games. The stats just back that up.

Not really. Most just quote stats without the qualitative support to back it up. Bigfooty can by its very nature be an extremely shallow place.
I simply don't agree that there was an appreciable difference in those years bar one seen in team performance.

 

[go you pups]

Also to add to that, Hawthorn and Geelong are probably the right example to use rather than Sydney

The AFL has a different set of rules for them, if they ever bottom out it'll only be for a year or two.

 

[Mattdougie]

Gibson, Hale, Burgoyne etc were before free agency started

The rest fair enough and were all brought in while they were contending/top 8 staples (both teams have missed the finals only once since 2010)

I'm sure Hawthorn and Geelong have retained better players than Dahl in that period for less money than what he was on/offered too. It's far easier to retain players when teams are playing well rather than when they're rebuilding it seems.

Would love to see how Geelong in particular go about things once Taylor, Jelwood, Hawkins etc reach the cliff as imo Hawthorns list dynamic is in much better shape long term than what Geelongs is because alot of their better players are in the right age group, like Titchell, Jaegar, Sicily, Burton, Gunston, Hardwick, Shiels etc, that's pretty much their core midfielders and small/medium defender rotation set for the next 5 years minimum.

Al I’m stating is they have shown an ability to bring in ready made mature best 22 every year so their depth stays as depth and plays very little games. Imagine Jong at the hawks. He may be carried on the list but he would have played a lot less games than he has with us.

We don’t seem to have that ability so we bring in mid tier players and when they are down we have to play the depth players because the difference in clas isn’t as large as the others clubs.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

How much would Jack Martin cost do people think? Would surely involve our first, no?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Not really. Most just quote stats without the qualitative support to back it up. Bigfooty can by its very nature be an extremely shallow place.
I simply don't agree that there was an appreciable difference in those years bar one seen in team performance.

That’s fair enough. Can you also agree that the club might view these things differently also ? Hence the offer he received ?

 

[immortalmike]

That’s fair enough. Can you also agree that the club might view these things differently also ? Hence the offer he received ?

Sure.
I just think they're wrong.

 

[jdz101]

I do think if this team loses Adams, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Rough, and has the usual dose of bullshit injuries, we are in serious danger of another trip to the bottom 4. At which point the pressure will start to come on the coach.

People on here being nonchalant about not having the Dahlaus/Wallis signatures are forgetting that they were both in our bests at times this season in a 13th placed team and both usually pretty reliable from a fitness perspective, bar freak injuries.

Adams/roughead going west I can deal with. You're still talking about 3.5 reasonably consistent quality AFL footballers there and potentially replacing them with kids that aren't ready or inferior older guys.

 

[Fossie 32]

Done Pm me your details I will transfer the money as we speak

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2012-07-16/bulldogs-backyard-

 

[TimlinOfficial]

How much would Jack Martin cost do people think? Would surely involve our first, no?

There's no way Gold Coast would let him go for anything less than pick 7

 

[cecil]

I do think if this team loses Adams, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Rough, and has the usual dose of bullshit injuries, we are in serious danger of another trip to the bottom 4. At which point the pressure will start to come on the coach.

People on here being nonchalant about not having the Dahlaus/Wallis signatures are forgetting that they were both in our bests at times this season in a 13th placed team and both usually pretty reliable from a fitness perspective, bar freak injuries.

Adams/roughead going west I can deal with. You're still talking about 3.5 reasonably consistent quality AFL footballers there and potentially replacing them with kids that aren't ready or inferior older guys.

I think most people who are okay with Dahl go believe it is on the proviso we also bring in experience. Not many want Wallis to go though. I really hope there is legs to the Jarryd Roughead talk personally. Him and one other decent 25+ player would be nice.

 

[TimlinOfficial]

I do think if this team loses Adams, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Rough, and has the usual dose of bullshit injuries, we are in serious danger of another trip to the bottom 4. At which point the pressure will start to come on the coach.

People on here being nonchalant about not having the Dahlaus/Wallis signatures are forgetting that they were both in our bests at times this season in a 13th placed team and both usually pretty reliable from a fitness perspective, bar freak injuries.

Adams/roughead going west I can deal with. You're still talking about 3.5 reasonably consistent quality AFL footballers there and potentially replacing them with kids that aren't ready or inferior older guys.

Some valid concerns although Wallis looks set to stay, Roughy has barely been getting a game and will adequately be replaced by a fit English/Boyd and Adams barely gets on the park, sadly.

We also have Picken and Libba to return which should further offset any loss of experience.

 

[Mattdougie]

So now on our list next year(paring everyone sign ons now) we will have the glowing guys we can’t rely on due to injury history or coming back from injury

Picken
Wood
Morris
Adams
Libba
Dickson
Suckling
Smith


Am I the only one this worries?