Carlton and Melbourne - who has the greater supporter base

[Forest Bomber]

Well if I compare Richmond’s attendances to other MCG tenants in Collingwood and Hawthorn, they outnumbered both of them in 2017 during the H&A season. You pretty much play all the big Victorian sides at the G anyway.

Also, the year before Richmond won the premiership (2016):
Richmond: 72,278
Collingwood: 74,643
Hawthorn: 75,341
Essendon: 57,494
Only one side there that isn’t keeping up and it isn’t Richmond.

Richmond again stayed with Hawthorn and Collingwood the following year (before Richmond won the flag), with those three clubs being the only three to break 70,000 members.

In 2017, despite being in a 37 year premiership drought, Richmond outnumbered Essendon in both memberships and attendances.

You can bring up any year you want prior to 2013, but it means literally nothing now. Richmond transformed themselves off the field before they won a premiership whereas you guys only have yourself to blame for that drug cheating debacle, so don’t use that as an excuse.

So we are comparing Richmond to Essendon but you are now using other MCG tenants attendances as comparison lol and you are talking hypotheticals. I just did a quick calculation of 2017 and Essendon's MCG home attendance average was 70428 and Richmond's was 58735. Of course for Richmond we are including smaller attendances with interstate teams but this was also Richmond's premiership year. You also brought up 2016 but this was the year when Essendon had most of its team out on suspension and was filled with top up players. Most people thought we were going to lose every game by record margins. You don't think that had anything to with crowd numbers.......lol delusional. Also pretty certain your 2016 information is wrong where did you that info? Because I doubt in Richmond's premiership year avg home MCG attendance was 58735 but in non premiership it was 72278. Where did you get that data? Richmond was getting this average home attendance including playing interstate teams...........lol, I think your info is wrong don't ya think!
Richmond stayed with Hawthorn and Collingwood again with YOUR hypotheticals what has this to with Essendon. 2013 Richmond finished 5th, 2014 8th, 2015 5th again before dropping to 13th, so unlike your claim they were on the bottom they were clearly on the way up. Also membership numbers across the board were growing for every club Essendon they stagnated due to the drug saga. In 2017 Richmond won the premiership and this means nothing in comparison unless Essendon also won the premiership.......................Even Richmond supporters on here have commented we are both pretty close, you don't think we know more about our supporter base than a Fremantle supporter.

 

[Forest Bomber]

Anyone that lives in Melbourne and is honest should know the most supported club is
1 Collingwood
gap
2 Richmond/Essendon
gap
3 Carlton
gap
4 Hawthorn
gap
5 Melbourne/St Kilda/Kangaroos/Doggies
Does not include Geelong.
Walk into any workplace or do a count from a random group of people in Melbourne will get this breakdown.

 

[jezzajay]

Bottom of the ladder...50,000+ members, yeah nothin to see here.

 

[Magpie03]

Carlton have been poor for a generation. All the little glory seeking kiddies will be Hawthorn supporters these days.

No doubt a lot of Blues will come out of the woodwork when they start winning but they are not a big 4 club anymore.

My four daughters all born between 96 and 2009 in Sydney and wife NSW born wife are Carlton supporters - I grew up in Melb and my love of the club made sure they had no choice but to support them.

Your probably right about the fair weather supports coming out over the next few years as we start to move forward.

 

[Hallstrom]

My reading of the term supporter base means it includes all fans whether they go to games or buy memberships or not.
Attendance and membership are hugely skewed by current performance so are not a great indicator of supporter base.

 

[Worm4]

My reading of the term supporter base means it includes all fans whether they go to games or buy memberships or not.
Attendance and membership are hugely skewed by current performance so are not a great indicator of supporter base.

Plus, teams like Essendon, Hawthorn, Richmond and Collingwood have pissy little 1 game memberships which adds to their numbers overall.
Cant derive supporter bases from membership numbers.

 

[Gavin Excell]

My reading of the term supporter base means it includes all fans whether they go to games or buy memberships or not.
Attendance and membership are hugely skewed by current performance so are not a great indicator of supporter base.

Yes thats how I read supporter base

Its only when success happens we see the surge that comes. Melbournes crowds in its two finals suggested they have a lot of dormant support or a lot more than people perhaps realised as one of the posters earlier suggested.

Interstingly the Bulldogs flag 2016 that was going to trigger an explosion of support in the Western suburbs hasnt really come to fruition

 

[windyhill]

Bottom of the ladder...50,000+ members, yeah nothin to see here.

There is buying the membership and then there is actually showing up to games.

 

[Hawkk]

Yes thats how I read supporter base

Its only when success happens we see the surge that comes. Melbournes crowds in its two finals suggested they have a lot of dormant support or a lot more than people perhaps realised as one of the posters earlier suggested.

Interstingly the Bulldogs flag 2016 that was going to trigger an explosion of support in the Western suburbs hasnt really come to fruition

The Dogs did however draw a huge Semi Final crowd 87,823 against Hawthorn.

There was huge sentimental support for the Dogs that finals series and it hasn’t been relocated since.

Melbourne might be different, as the original MCG tenant club they have a history of high drawing attendances but it’s difficult to deduce anything from one or two off finals attendances.

Especially from 2016 onwards with finals attendances drawing crowds that are greater then any time since the early 1970s

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

The Dogs did however draw a huge Semi Final crowd 87,823 against Hawthorn.

There was huge sentimental support for the Dogs that finals series and it hasn’t been relocated since.

Melbourne might be different, as the original MCG tenant club they have a history of high drawing attendances but it’s difficult to deduce anything from one or two off finals attendances.

Especially from 2016 onwards with finals attendances drawing crowds that are greater then any time since the early 1970s

That conclusion regarding the 2016 SF is fraught with risk. We could take credit for the 2017 sellout QF at Adelaide oval, but I'd be reluctant. I was there and there weren't many of us. Likewise this years SF, I'd love to say we contributed significantly to the 80k but the black and white in the crowd says otherwise.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

That conclusion regarding the 2016 SF is fraught with risk. We could take credit for the 2017 sellout QF at Adelaide oval, but I'd be reluctant. I was there and there weren't many of us. Likewise this years SF, I'd love to say we contributed significantly to the 80k but the black and white in the crowd says otherwise.

Silly to compare a newly started interstate side travelling to one that's in it's own home town.

I was there and there certainly wasn't a shortage of Dogs supporters. Larger amount that was at the 2005 elimination final vs Pies which was around 82k which shows growth. (Neturals on our side no doubt too)

 

[Hawkk]

Same could be said about Melbourne’s finals series (which is the justification of the poster)

FYI the direct comparison between the 2016 SF and the 2018 SF

Hawthorn v W Bulldogs 87,823 (Series Ticket Game)
Hawthorn v Melbourne 90,152

As for the Geelong game, the comparison between 2016 and 2018 is also interesting...

Geelong v Hawthorn 87,533 (Series Ticket Game)
Melbourne v Geelong 91,575 (Series Ticket Game)

The major difference in all of these games is that the Haw v Melb game was not the Series Game so there would have been fewer netruals at the game on the Series Ticket.

I think there has been a huge increase in Melbourne based finals since 2010.

If you go back to 2010 Collingwood / St Kilda v W Bulldogs was drawing 60,000 to 65,000 to Qualifying and Preliminary Finals.

W Bulldogs v Sydney (Series Ticket Game) drew 40,000 and Collingwood v Adelaide drew just 60,000

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Silly to compare a newly started interstate side travelling to one that's in it's own home town.

I was there and there certainly wasn't a shortage of Dogs supporters. Larger amount that was at the 2005 elimination final vs Pies which was around 82k which shows growth. (Neturals on our side no doubt too)

In context itwas entirely sensible. I agree you should have a larger supporter base in Victoria. It will be a long time if ever that our focus moves beyond development in Western Sydney and Canberra.

 

[juddanaught09]

I know that Facebook isn't exactly the ABS, but it still gives a pretty good indication of overall supporter base.



Considering we have been rubbish for the best part of two decades we have retained a sizable supporter base. Anyone suggesting that we have less supporters than Melbourne is probably too young to remember when Carlton was a powerhouse team.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I know that Facebook isn't exactly the ABS, but it still gives a pretty good indication of overall supporter base.

View attachment 585650

Considering we have been rubbish for the best part of two decades we have retained a sizable supporter base. Anyone suggesting that we have less supporters than Melbourne is probably too young to remember when Carlton was a powerhouse team.

Interesting how Richmond rates using the Facebook data

 

[JayJ20]

If you want to determine size of the club, look at what the base is. Anyone can draw a crowd in successful periods. Also, pulling power when all things are well is highly circumstantial. Too many variables such as ground-size restrictions (MCG vs Non-MCG tenants), the number of MCG games, double-ups, opponent form, membership set-up (GA vs a high number of reserved seats) etc.

All things considered, I’d say:

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Richmond
4. Carlton
5. Hawthorn
6. Geelong
7. Melbourne
8. St Kilda
9. Western Bulldogs
10. North Melbourne

 

[juddanaught09]

Interesting how Richmond rates using the Facebook data

Yeah it is interesting. I think Richmond definitely has the most welded on supporters while Collingwood and Essendon have a huge number that are pretty flaky. Half my friends claim to be Essendon supporters but they couldn't name 5 players.

When I met my wife she told me she was an Essendon supporter and then one day I was watching an Essendon game on TV and she turned to me and said "who's that old bloke?".

"Dustin Fletcher", I responded.

Thankfully she agreed to become a Carlton supporter before I married her.

 

[jezzajay]

There is buying the membership and then there is actually showing up to games.

Yeah no doubt...so whats your point?

 

[windyhill]

Yeah no doubt...so whats your point?

carlton fans have ****ed off in droves, thought the point was clear.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Melbourne have the best membership conversion rate for a supporter group

 

[TonaldDrump]

Neither considering none of their supporters showed up to their games when they were on the bottom of the ladder.

 

[raymond35]

I know that Facebook isn't exactly the ABS, but it still gives a pretty good indication of overall supporter base.

View attachment 585650

Considering we have been rubbish for the best part of two decades we have retained a sizable supporter base. Anyone suggesting that we have less supporters than Melbourne is probably too young to remember when Carlton was a powerhouse team.

This is a very good assessment of Victorian supporters.
Only thing i find strange is St.Kilda. They have an absolute army of supporters whenever they're playing ok.

 

[schmuttt]

Neither considering none of their supporters showed up to their games when they were on the bottom of the ladder.

Goes for every club.

 

[markm106]

I would say Carlton win that one. But that finals crowd in the first 2 finals this year was amazing. The roar in the Cats game was huge. Going into the game that night it was a sea of red and blue. The Hawks game was more even crowd wise but we still outnumbered them. Interesting to see what happens if we get a decent run with multiple finals appearances.

 

[GroggSquad]

This is a very good assessment of Victorian supporters.
Only thing i find strange is St.Kilda. They have an absolute army of supporters whenever they're playing ok.

Do they? St Kilda have always been a small club with rubbish attendances and have enjoyed very limited success in 100+ years.

I find it weird that North Melbourne is always the side that is mentioned in the relocation conversation, but the viability of St Kilda never seems to be questioned.

There is a real chance St Kilda is smaller than both North & the Dogs now - and if not now, surely soon. Based on current efforts, North and the Dogs are more innovative and proactive in trying to grow their brand.