Free Agency Stephen Coniglio

[Colonial]

If he was def going to leave then the Giants would of traded him last year so they could get a good trade.


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[THE_GUN]

Winning a flag is not the only messure of success.

It is the ultimate aim sure but there is more levels of success than just that.

How many years between flags wqs it for Richmond? 37?

Thats correct it has been 37 years of being extremely unsuccessful , we did make finals in that time but was not successful
'Now tell me being a west coast supporter do you believe fremantle to be a successful team ?

3 years ago gws were meant to be unbeatable with all the assets they had at their disposal and they still do have a massive amount of talent on their list but its slowly being dwindled away and currently after 7 years the best they have achieved is a prelim.

Sorry but for a team that was given so much talent needs to win the thing in 10 years for me to call them successful

 

[Obeanie1]

Thats correct it has been 37 years of being extremely unsuccessful , we did make finals in that time but was not successful
'Now tell me being a west coast supporter do you believe fremantle to be a successful team ?

3 years ago gws were meant to be unbeatable with all the assets they had at their disposal and they still do have a massive amount of talent on their list but its slowly being dwindled away and currently after 7 years the best they have achieved is a prelim.

Sorry but for a team that was given so much talent needs to win the thing in 10 years for me to call them successful

RE Freo in some areas they are more successful than other clubs.

Big membership and financially independent.

Did make the big dance but fell short against one of the most powerful teams of the era.

If the Tigers had of faced the Hawks at their peak you'd be 37+ years between drinks.

 

[TylerDurden]

If he was def going to leave then the Giants would of traded him last year so they could get a good trade.


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If he was going to stay, he would've signed an extension. Where there's smoke, and all that....

 

[Colonial]

If he was going to stay, he would've signed an extension. Where there's smoke, and all that....

Like Kelly did?
Like Dusty?

Only reason theres smoke is that there is an out of contract Giant.
Greene had smoke and never wanted to leave.

They arent fools here. If we were no chance of keeping him he would of been traded last year so we got something and we wouldnt of cleared the cap like we did.



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[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Thats correct it has been 37 years of being extremely unsuccessful , we did make finals in that time but was not successful
'Now tell me being a west coast supporter do you believe fremantle to be a successful team ?

3 years ago gws were meant to be unbeatable with all the assets they had at their disposal and they still do have a massive amount of talent on their list but its slowly being dwindled away and currently after 7 years the best they have achieved is a prelim.

Sorry but for a team that was given so much talent needs to win the thing in 10 years for me to call them successful

That really is nonsense.

You concoct an absurd expectation and then try to use it as the measuring stick.

Meanwhile your club was crap for many decades by your standard, but that's ok, because it didn't have the disadvantage of setting up a club from scratch.

 

[Colonial]

Thats correct it has been 37 years of being extremely unsuccessful , we did make finals in that time but was not successful
'Now tell me being a west coast supporter do you believe fremantle to be a successful team ?

3 years ago gws were meant to be unbeatable with all the assets they had at their disposal and they still do have a massive amount of talent on their list but its slowly being dwindled away and currently after 7 years the best they have achieved is a prelim.

Sorry but for a team that was given so much talent needs to win the thing in 10 years for me to call them successful

The reason the start up concessions were there is they knew allot would leave straight off the bat.
It was about making the club competitive enough to grow, not undefeatable.

Making finals consistently is being successful as is the growth in grassroots etc

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[Obeanie1]

Both the Doggies & Tigers were on their knee's when GWS joined the league with unseen before help with draft picks & Players that were at your disposal
understandable that it would take 4-5 years before these kids were mature enough to stand up but the talent that is on your list GWS playing in a GF was the least that would have been expected and most football experts had you guys winning 3 flags in your first 10 years.

"Graeme ‘Gubby’ Allan, Greater Western Sydney football manager, has predicted the AFL’s newest franchise will win a premiership by 2015"

This will be the Giants 8th year and with the amount of 17 year old players that were granted prior to the draft that included the likes of
Tomlinson,Shiel,Treloar,Wilson,Cameron + another 7 players that dont need to be mentioned as well as the Zone selections and the players that were allowed to come at no cost like Davis,Scully,Ward plus more and all the 1st round draft pick that were given.

The Giants should have won atleast 1 and most think 2 premierships in the first 10 years

To me thats not a successful team considering they still have not played in a GF let alone win a flag.

In my opinion the GWS have probably another 5-7 years to take advantage of the start they were given before the playing field levels out and
if the cabinet is still empty then forget about being successful it would have to be classified as being a miserable failure

Miserable failure?

Miserable is not making finals at all. Aka Gold Coast.

You seem to be going out of your way to put down GWS.

How would you describe 37 years between flags? I wonder if you describe that Richmond era in similar terms?

I presume you will need to come up with a term worse than 'miserable'.

GWS has done pretty well IMO. Sure a flag by now would have been the cherry on top but winning those is not a given. Chances are it wont take 37 years for them to win one.

 

[THE_GUN]

Miserable failure?

Miserable is not making finals at all. Aka Gold Coast.

You seem to be going out of your way to put down GWS.

How would you describe 37 years between flags? I wonder if you describe that Richmond era in similar terms?

I presume you will need to come up with a term worse than 'miserable'.

GWS has done pretty well IMO. Sure a flag by now would have been the cherry on top but winning those is not a given. Chances are it wont take 37 years for them to win one.

Really ?? You have asked this 3 times so far what are you a child
I have already told you that Richmonds period between 1982 - 2017 was absolutely a shocking time for the club after winning 5 flags in the previous 17 years but in 1982 the Richmond team was down to skin and bones with no money no players after the exodus of our best players that included
Rioli,Taylor,Raines,Wood,Cloke and the retirements of Bartlett,Bourke,Dunn,Jess etc all at a time when there was no money but this is all besides the point the club was on its knee's

Just about every football expert and the AFL set up GWS to win multiple flags in its first 10 years and Gubby Allen was on record as saying they should win by 2015 and most had them winning 3 in 10 years

I asked you on your thoughts about Stkilda & Fremantle would you consider these teams as being successful ?

Port Adelaide joined the Afl in 1997 - Premiers 2004
West Coast joined in 1987 - Premiers 1992 & 1994
Adelaide joined 1991 - Premiers in 1997 & 1998

Im not going to go into what concessions these other teams recieved when they joined but in no way was it anywhere near the platter that GWS was given
all 3 of the teams listed above were also expansion teams that started off from nothing and at most were given local talent to select from but the gws were given 12 of the best available 17 year olds then a host of the best players they could attract from other clubs and unseen draft picks never seen before

GWS has played 7 full seasons so far but in the first 7 years 2 of the above clubs had won a flag and Port won in their 8th year
If losing 2 prelim's make the most talented team a success well then all i can say is that our interpretation of success is very very different

 

[THE_GUN]

That really is nonsense.

You concoct an absurd expectation and then try to use it as the measuring stick.

Meanwhile your club was crap for many decades by your standard, but that's ok, because it didn't have the disadvantage of setting up a club from scratch.

How did i put words in your General Managers mouth ?
That measuring stick that you believe i concocted was the expectations of the club you support, The line about my club has no significance on the subject but if you really do want to go into my club lets just say that 6 flags in 51 years is a pretty good result

But i would like you to aleast tell me what your expectations are in the next 5 years for the GWS , Will you be happy with another 3 Prelim losses or are you actually expecting to win a flag ?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Really ?? You have asked this 3 times so far what are you a child
I have already told you that Richmonds period between 1982 - 2017 was absolutely a shocking time for the club after winning 5 flags in the previous 17 years but in 1982 the Richmond team was down to skin and bones with no money no players after the exodus of our best players that included
Rioli,Taylor,Raines,Wood,Cloke and the retirements of Bartlett,Bourke,Dunn,Jess etc all at a time when there was no money but this is all besides the point the club was on its knee's

Just about every football expert and the AFL set up GWS to win multiple flags in its first 10 years and Gubby Allen was on record as saying they should win by 2015 and most had them winning 3 in 10 years

I asked you on your thoughts about Stkilda & Fremantle would you consider these teams as being successful ?

Port Adelaide joined the Afl in 1997 - Premiers 2004
West Coast joined in 1987 - Premiers 1992 & 1994
Adelaide joined 1991 - Premiers in 1997 & 1998

Im not going to go into what concessions these other teams recieved when they joined but in no way was it anywhere near the platter that GWS was given
all 3 of the teams listed above were also expansion teams that started off from nothing and at most were given local talent to select from but the gws were given 12 of the best available 17 year olds then a host of the best players they could attract from other clubs and unseen draft picks never seen before

GWS has played 7 full seasons so far but in the first 7 years 2 of the above clubs had won a flag and Port won in their 8th year
If losing 2 prelim's make the most talented team a success well then all i can say is that our interpretation of success is very very different

No you didn't say that Richmond had a shocking period between 1982 and 2017.

Describing your wierd view as "every expert" is clearly just untrue.

Ni-one ever denied we receivednextra draft picks. Did you expect us to play ground security staff?

We had the weakest junior comps in our zone to draw players from. Including Gold Coast.

We are in a completely different position to WA and SA entries who had local comps to draw talent from of a suitable standard, and were give start up concessions to access them.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

How did i put words in your General Managers mouth ?
That measuring stick that you believe i concocted was the expectations of the club you support, The line about my club has no significance on the subject but if you really do want to go into my club lets just say that 6 flags in 51 years is a pretty good result

But i would like you to aleast tell me what your expectations are in the next 5 years for the GWS , Will you be happy with another 3 Prelim losses or are you actually expecting to win a flag ?

I dint recall anyone from the club ever saying anything about winning a flag in 2015. Without a reference, including context, I'm gonna dismiss it out if hand.

To question whether I believe we want to win flags, when I said in my first response that we need to, is just too silly for words.

 

[Colonial]

How did i put words in your General Managers mouth ?
That measuring stick that you believe i concocted was the expectations of the club you support, The line about my club has no significance on the subject but if you really do want to go into my club lets just say that 6 flags in 51 years is a pretty good result

But i would like you to aleast tell me what your expectations are in the next 5 years for the GWS , Will you be happy with another 3 Prelim losses or are you actually expecting to win a flag ?

No one expects a flag.
Only fools do.

Management talk it up to build sponsorship and excitement.


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[THE_GUN]

No you didn't say that Richmond had a shocking period between 1982 and 2017.

Describing your wierd view as "every expert" is clearly just untrue.

Ni-one ever denied we receivednextra draft picks. Did you expect us to play ground security staff?

We had the weakest junior comps in our zone to draw players from. Including Gold Coast.

We are in a completely different position to WA and SA entries who had local comps to draw talent from of a suitable standard, and were give start up concessions to access them.

Your answers are not what i asked,But ill go through your post and answer them

Describing your wierd view as "every expert" is clearly just untrue. -More than happy to go back and pull out what was written at the time and who "experts' 'are but let me just say that just about every media outlet as well as the AFL are all on record as saying that they needed to build a strong franchise in the western sydney region as well as your GM that was saying the same thing. Seriously who would you consider an expert if these people are not ?

Ni-one ever denied we receivednextra draft picks. Did you expect us to play ground security staff? - No nobody expected you to play with the security or ground staff BUT that doesnt take away the depth of talent that you were given and this is by far away the best talent ever assembled for any start up team i history

We had the weakest junior comps in our zone to draw players from. Including Gold Coast. - You received 12 17 year olds prior to anyclubs having access to them. I have already mentioned who they were and man did you get 6 beauties from that crop so this far out weighs anything the other teams recieved
Treloar,Tomlinson,Adams,Sheil,Cameron,Wilson plus a few that you traded for picks

We are in a completely different position to WA and SA entries who had local comps to draw talent from of a suitable standard, and were give start up concessions to access them - You didnt need the local comp to draw talent from you had the a choice from any 17 year olds from anywhere in australia plus any AFL player that wanted to come for the $$$$ like Ward,Davis,Scully etc which the other expansion clubs didnt get

Just have a look at what your club received below and compare them to any one of the other teams - Its miles apart


http://aflnswact.com.au/gws-giants-list-concessions-explained/

 

[THE_GUN]

I dint recall anyone from the club ever saying anything about winning a flag in 2015. Without a reference, including context, I'm gonna dismiss it out if hand.

To question whether I believe we want to win flags, when I said in my first response that we need to, is just too silly for words.

GWS predicts 2015 premiership success
Graeme ‘Gubby’ Allan, Greater Western Sydney football manager, has predicted the AFL’s newest franchise will win a premiership by 2015.

That’s right, after entering the competition in 2012, the ultimate measure of success may be only three years away.

“That’s the plan – whether it happens, I can tell you I’m very confident now,” he told The Footy Show.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Your answers are not what i asked,But ill go through your post and answer them

Describing your wierd view as "every expert" is clearly just untrue. -More than happy to go back and pull out what was written at the time and who "experts' 'are but let me just say that just about every media outlet as well as the AFL are all on record as saying that they needed to build a strong franchise in the western sydney region as well as your GM that was saying the same thing. Seriously who would you consider an expert if these people are not ?

Ni-one ever denied we receivednextra draft picks. Did you expect us to play ground security staff? - No nobody expected you to play with the security or ground staff BUT that doesnt take away the depth of talent that you were given and this is by far away the best talent ever assembled for any start up team i history

We had the weakest junior comps in our zone to draw players from. Including Gold Coast. - You received 12 17 year olds prior to anyclubs having access to them. I have already mentioned who they were and man did you get 6 beauties from that crop so this far out weighs anything the other teams recieved
Treloar,Tomlinson,Adams,Sheil,Cameron,Wilson plus a few that you traded for picks

We are in a completely different position to WA and SA entries who had local comps to draw talent from of a suitable standard, and were give start up concessions to access them - You didnt need the local comp to draw talent from you had the a choice from any 17 year olds from anywhere in australia plus any AFL player that wanted to come for the $$$$ like Ward,Davis,Scully etc which the other expansion clubs didnt get

Just have a look at what your club received below and compare them to any one of the other teams - Its miles apart


http://aflnswact.com.au/gws-giants-list-concessions-explained/

I'm fully aware if what we received. Of course it isn't valid to compare it with startups in a different position though. That's a concept you seem to struggle with.

You also seem to struggle with the obvious difficulty of setting up a team from scratch in foreign territory. The challenge remains and will for some time. There's a lot if work to be done.

As to whether the concessions were too generous, how long is a piece of string? They were certainly generous though. There's no objective definition of what would be right.

Maybe the fear of how difficult it would be for us led to generosity, maybe the club CEO's thought no problem their takent will be a great opportunity. Most likely a bit of both in my view.

In any case the club did not define the concessions, a committee led by the AFL did. The clubs task was to exploit them as best it could. The AFL hasn't helped by ending our list allowances and COLA early and unexpectedly, but there's not much the club can do.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

GWS predicts 2015 premiership success
Graeme ‘Gubby’ Allan, Greater Western Sydney football manager, has predicted the AFL’s newest franchise will win a premiership by 2015.

That’s right, after entering the competition in 2012, the ultimate measure of success may be only three years away.

“That’s the plan – whether it happens, I can tell you I’m very confident now,” he told The Footy Show.

It's a headline with a partial quote but even what it is makes it clear it's a qualified statement if intent. I'd expect anyone in our club admin to be confident of success. It doesn't mean what you said it does though.

 

[THE_GUN]

I'm fully aware if what we received. Of course it isn't valid to compare it with startups in a different position though. That's a concept you seem to struggle with.

You also seem to struggle with the obvious difficulty of setting up a team from scratch in foreign territory. The challenge remains and will for some time. There's a lot if work to be done.

As to whether the concessions were too generous, how long is a piece of string? They were certainly generous though. There's no objective definition of what would be right.

Maybe the fear of how difficult it would be for us led to generosity, maybe the club CEO's thought no problem their takent will be a great opportunity. Most likely a bit of both in my view.

In any case the club did not define the concessions, a committee led by the AFL did. The clubs task was to exploit them as best it could. The AFL hasn't helped by ending our list allowances and COLA early and unexpectedly, but there's not much the club can do.

I'm not struggling with anything you have posted and am fully aware about the difficulties of setting up a new club as the other clubs were also 'new' clubs and in no way different to GWS apart from that it was in an area thats not an AFL dominated region which has nothing to do with what we are discussing here 7 years on and thats about onfield success. Maybe you need to understand that 7 years on from the start up.

Good example for you to look at is the Brisbane bears , This club was also pretty much started up from nothing after the failure of the Bears and moved to the gabba where is was gutted and started afresh as the Lions in also what is known as foreign territory to the code of afl in 1997 and won a 3 peat 2001-2003
The bears were far worse than anything we seen from the GWS even in your 2nd year

Lets not get into this 'Cola' Argument as that just opens up another can of worms altogether

You can only go by what the previous expansion clubs have been able to achieve with their start up and look at GWS and what they have done, GWS have done a brilliant job in starting the club and the players that have been at the club as expected with what they were given but in regards to onfield success
Sorry but the club has so far failed to deliver what was expected in its first 10 years and thats multiple flags but if they do end up winning a flag in the next 3 years then im happy to come back and say 'Gws are now a successful team' but currently NO

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

In the Lynch thread on this board, Was posted by hawks supporters

Don't doubt it was, but perhaps misconstrued or misunderstood by the poster.

I don't think TL and JOM were that close personally, certainly nothing like JOM and Cogs (who are possibly the closest of any two AFL players, down to JOM having dinner with Cogs parents when Hawthorn last played in WA and Stephen was home in NSW, holidaying together, families and partners are friends, etc).

Lynch did seek O'Meara's counsel prior to going as FA. Lynch wanted to avoid the issues that GC (well Cockrain) caused, and all the upset and uncertainty and had noted how JOM and HFC carried themselves professionally through the trade period. It's why TL started his demands with "can make an offer GC cannot match", and "will not need to trade anyone". He wanted to remove any/all negotiating power from GC.

The only club that had the salary cap flexibility to do so was Hawthorn (mainly through a ridiculous yr.1 payment and short contract) - maybe North could have but I never heard of an offer - but AFL ended up getting involved in making an alternate deal happen that further compensated GC. (I don't think this was anti-HFC or even pro-RFC, rather an attempt by the AFL to get GC as much help as they could).

JOM and Cogs want to play together - whether that be during their AFL careers, or post-AFL remains to be seen. It could (should ) be at Hawthorn, I doubt JOM will leave HFC after he specifically sought them out. Cogs is also now a 7yr veteran of GWS, an established senior player and potential future captain. If he doesn't leave this contract renewal, he will likely be a 300-game one-club player and any reunion will be in retirement.

 

[THE_GUN]

It's a headline with a partial quote but even what it is makes it clear it's a qualified statement if intent. I'd expect anyone in our club admin to be confident of success. It doesn't mean what you said it does though.

Yes it does

I remember the interview at the time and the expectations from Gubby (who was representing your club) was that he and the club expected to win multiple flags and his expectations were correct as alot of people in footy also expected the same.

Personally i still have GWS in the top 4 in 2019 and some on another thread have mocked me for that but i do expect the amount of talent to see them come through and make it to top 4 - But i dont think they will win it

But this is the coniglio thread and if GWS does end up losing both Kelly & Coniglio then the chances of GWS winning a flag gets very very thin

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I'm not struggling with anything you have posted and am fully aware about the difficulties of setting up a new club as the other clubs were also 'new' clubs and in no way different to GWS apart from that it was in an area thats not an AFL dominated region which has nothing to do with what we are discussing here 7 years on and thats about onfield success. Maybe you need to understand that 7 years on from the start up.

Good example for you to look at is the Brisbane bears , This club was also pretty much started up from nothing after the failure of the Bears and moved to the gabba where is was gutted and started afresh as the Lions in also what is known as foreign territory to the code of afl in 1997 and won a 3 peat 2001-2003
The bears were far worse than anything we seen from the GWS even in your 2nd year

Lets not get into this 'Cola' Argument as that just opens up another can of worms altogether

You can only go by what the previous expansion clubs have been able to achieve with their start up and look at GWS and what they have done, GWS have done a brilliant job in starting the club and the players that have been at the club as expected with what they were given but in regards to onfield success
Sorry but the club has so far failed to deliver what was expected in its first 10 years and thats multiple flags but if they do end up winning a flag in the next 3 years then im happy to come back and say 'Gws are now a successful team' but currently NO

We cant possibly have failed in any expectation for our first 10 years. We've been in the comp 7 years.

 

[THE_GUN]

We cant possibly have failed in any expectation for our first 10 years. We've been in the comp 7 years.

Getting a little derailed here

I think the debate is if the GWS is a success now not if you have failed as that would depend on what you believe is a failure onfield or as a club starting up
All im saying is i dont see GWS as being a successful club onfield

 

[Brutalitops]

Is this the Coniglio thread? Maybe you two can take your discussion to "the boring thread about things that no one gives a shit about"? Its over on the GD forum

 

[PhatHQ]

Wow.., what a lot of crap to read through!

Anyway, Cogs should be the no.1 target for the Hawks but I would bet my lunch money that he signs in July on a mega deal with the Giants & gets the Capacity to himself in 2020.

Great “love story” for Jom & Cogs to play together but I just can’t see it happening

 

[Obeanie1]

Really ?? You have asked this 3 times so far what are you a child
I have already told you that Richmonds period between 1982 - 2017 was absolutely a shocking time for the club after winning 5 flags in the previous 17 years but in 1982 the Richmond team was down to skin and bones with no money no players after the exodus of our best players that included
Rioli,Taylor,Raines,Wood,Cloke and the retirements of Bartlett,Bourke,Dunn,Jess etc all at a time when there was no money but this is all besides the point the club was on its knee's

Just about every football expert and the AFL set up GWS to win multiple flags in its first 10 years and Gubby Allen was on record as saying they should win by 2015 and most had them winning 3 in 10 years

I asked you on your thoughts about Stkilda & Fremantle would you consider these teams as being successful ?

Port Adelaide joined the Afl in 1997 - Premiers 2004
West Coast joined in 1987 - Premiers 1992 & 1994
Adelaide joined 1991 - Premiers in 1997 & 1998

Im not going to go into what concessions these other teams recieved when they joined but in no way was it anywhere near the platter that GWS was given
all 3 of the teams listed above were also expansion teams that started off from nothing and at most were given local talent to select from but the gws were given 12 of the best available 17 year olds then a host of the best players they could attract from other clubs and unseen draft picks never seen before

GWS has played 7 full seasons so far but in the first 7 years 2 of the above clubs had won a flag and Port won in their 8th year
If losing 2 prelim's make the most talented team a success well then all i can say is that our interpretation of success is very very different

As I said you seem to be taking a lot of energy bagging the Giants.

So far in 7 years they have made one or is it two prelims. That is pretty decent progress and on a win loss basis the Gaints are much more successful than Hawthorn its it first 10 years.

You alluded that if they dont win a flag soon they would be a miserable failure.

You are grinding an axe for some unknown reason. Because a new team in a non AFL state got concessions? So what? It has proven that the so called nufty experts like McGuire who cried fowl until they were blue in the face were wrong. They were crying that no other teams would win a flag with all the concessions handed to Gold Coast and the Giants. And now you are sinking the boot in because they haven't. Who is being the child here?

I will say one way the Giants have been more successful than Richmond is that to date no Giants supporter ( yes they do exist) have booed, abused and split on their own players after a loss.

Just be careful with the axe, its getting sharp and cuts both ways.