Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

[Ah12]

Why compare him to the top 5 of 2017?

The comment was in relation to how he looks vs the likely top 5 in next years draft.

Im just using an example of players we can actually compare him to. I dont know any players of 2019 apart from hearing they prediction they arent any better quality than 20th of this year

 

[Drewie11]

Looking at stocker's highlites i think its safe to say hea a top 5 pick next year. I dont mind this trade at all. Time will tell i guess

I disagree. Ive watched plenty of highlites and not said the same. Go and watch the top 5 of 2017 and compare it to stocker. Youll see what i mean

Im just using an example of players we can actually compare him to. I dont know any players of 2019 apart from hearing they prediction they arent any better quality than 20th of this year

So you say it is safe to say he is a top 5 pick in 2019 and then say a couple of posts later that you don’t know any players in the 2019 draft!!!

So you are really saying you have NO IDEA what you are talking about??? That was hilarious

 

[Ah12]

So you say it is safe to say he is a top 5 pick in 2019 and then say a couple of posts later that you don’t know any players in the 2019 draft!!!

So you are really saying you have NO IDEA what you are talking about??? That was hilarious

Read the last sentence. Obviously this is the reasoning behind why carlton have done the trade.

 

[Drewie11]

Read the last sentence. Obviously this is the reasoning behind why carlton have done the trade.

Oh, just going by your first post I thought you were some kind of expert.

After watching highlights of Stocker it’s safe to say he would be in the top 5 of the 2019 players.

So now you are basing it of other people’s opinion? Because you then say you have no idea of any players in the 2019 draft

 

[Ah12]

Oh, just going by your first post I thought you were some kind of expert.

After watching highlights of Stocker it’s safe to say he would be in the top 5 of the 2019 players.

So now you are basing it of other people’s opinion? Because you then say you have no idea of any players in the 2019 draft

I am and you should take my personal opinion on a forum for fact...

 

[Drewie11]

I am and you should take my personal opinion on a forum for fact...

The only thing I should do with your personal opinion is just laugh, judging by those hilarious comments.... keep up the good work

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Im sick of getting abused on bigfooty so I reported you, I don't have to put up with your abuse.The Stocker trade is for everyone to discuss,this is not a Carlton thread.Stocker has very poor endurance which is a fact.

Draftee needs to improve his aerobic fitness? Wow that's never happened before.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

If you call me an idiot again, I will report you.

You should've done that the 1st time.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

Bit disingenuous of you there.

Stocker’s poor endurance has been well documented and here you are criticizing him for doing additional work on it?

He has participated in full training through the preseason and is doing extra endurance work.

Yet you somehow reckon that’s a bad thing.

Go figure.

What should he be doing? Not working on it?

Fair call. Lack of endurance at his stage isn't a major problem just yet as he has plenty of time to work on it. If true it will probably just mean that he won't have much of an impact this year. Carlton probably see Stocker as a long term project anyway as do Crows do with Fogarty who was also drafted with a poor fitness base.

 

[Jeremias]

Im just using an example of players we can actually compare him to. I dont know any players of 2019 apart from hearing they prediction they arent any better quality than 20th of this year

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous comparison to make. Where Stocker rates vs the top 5 of the 2017 draft is completely irrelevant.

Surely the only comparison to be made, is Stocker vs those expected to be picked early in the 2019 draft.

 

[ad victoriam]

No first year draftee is allowed to train at 100% workload.AFLPA rules.

I mean, you crack the sads when your posts are met with ridicule yet you continue to post without a clue. What are we to make of this?

Just curious which rule is that.

 

[eastfreo75]

Curnow only went at 12 because he was arrested on the eve of the draft. It wasn't an astute pick it was a case of not allowing Curnow to slide any further and Carlton were the best placed to make a judgement on his character.

Luck has a lot to do with it.

 

[eastfreo75]

Please, point me to where anyone has said SOS was so fantastic and cunning to take Curnow at pick 12. This is some strawman bullshit you’ve got going here.

Carlton weren’t in receipt of any info other clubs weren’t. It’s naive to think that, just becuse Ed played at Carlton.

I’m really not interested in subjective rationalisations. Other club’s could’ve taken Curnow around that pick, they didn’t and Carlton did. That it wasn’t a completely out of left field selection doesn’t make it any less of a ripping pick.

Some picks are no brainers. That doesn’t make SOS good or bad as a recruiter.

At the Blues, SOS has a lot of no brainer picks.

At the Giants, his recorded is very average.

The point is that the Blues are not the New England Patriots.

 

[eastfreo75]

The points system says Carlton paid highly, but it also says the Crows net take away from the deal was merely around pick 38 value and McAdam; such is the flaw in evaluating trades using the points index.

From a Carlton perspective, they gave up a second rounder (remnant currency from the Gibbs deal), a state player free-hit they didn’t want, and bumped another second rounder down to a future third. Cheap as chips for McGovern.

From a Crows perspective, they got McAdam and supplemented the trade with their own picks for Sydney’s pick 13 to draft McHenry. Seems a potentially good return for them too.

I sure hope your idea of Reid winning a trade isn’t dependant on the other party losing it.

When studying the trades of the last10 years when picks were traded for picks, the points for higher picks are 30-50% more points than the AFL’s point system.

Therefore, the points system are totally flawed.

 

[Monkey King]

At the Blues, SOS has a lot of no brainer picks.

At the Giants, his recorded is very average.

Weitering probably. Walsh perhaps, but plenty reckoned others were better options. I don’t see the other no-brainers, unless all club’s recruits are no-brainers. You might say Curnow, but he certainly wasn’t to the clubs that overlooked him. Maybe if McKay has a good season he might move from bust to no-brainer too

Regardless of any such notion, give the man some credit for dealing these picks through the door in the first place with currency the likes of Lachie Henderson and Tom Bell.

SOS’ role at the Giants as list manager was to build a list from scratch that batted deep in many positions. I’d say he met the brief pretty well myself.

 

[Monkey King]

Therefore, the points system are totally flawed.

Exactly my point. What Carlton gave up for Gov was a second rounder (remnant currency from the Gibbs deal), a free hit at a state player, and bumped another second rounder down to a future third. It was a cheap deal.

 

[SickQwon]

Guy who thinks Alex Rance is the greatest full back to have ever grace the sport also thinks SOS is cooked.....

No one's losing sleep over this...

 

[Pea Nut]

Exactly my point. What Carlton gave up for Gov was a second rounder (remnant currency from the Gibbs deal), a free hit at a state player, and bumped another second rounder down to a future third. It was a cheap deal.

Being that is the case, why are so many Carlton fans trying to use the points system to justify this trade or even going one step further and using it to prove they have won this trade ??

 

[eastfreo75]

Exactly my point. What Carlton gave up for Gov was a second rounder (remnant currency from the Gibbs deal), a free hit at a state player, and bumped another second rounder down to a future third. It was a cheap deal.

Totally.

I think a lot of teams should stockpile second and third round picks and trade to teams who need points.

 

[Lore]

Being that is the case, why are so many Carlton fans trying to use the points system to justify this trade or even going one step further and using it to prove they have won this trade ??

Probably because at this early stage there is no perfect way to judge who won that trade, so everyone is trying different ways of justifying it, all of which have flaws. The points system is reasonably attractive because it’s unbiased, but it’s also flawed because of the way that picks are weighted and because the points themselves don’t run out on the field, win possession or kick goals.

 

[Robertio]

Being that is the case, why are so many Carlton fans trying to use the points system to justify this trade or even going one step further and using it to prove they have won this trade ??

Seen a lot of Adelaide supporters saying the same thing. In actual fact us getting your 3rd round pick this year evens up the trade. We'll just have to wait and see how everything pans out.

 

[Pea Nut]

Seen a lot of Adelaide supporters saying the same thing. In actual fact us getting your 3rd round pick this year evens up the trade. We'll just have to wait and see how everything pans out.

You've seen Adelaide fans using points to determine this trade?? Where, cos I haven't actually seen those posts.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Weitering probably. Walsh perhaps, but plenty reckoned others were better options. I don’t see the other no-brainers, unless all club’s recruits are no-brainers. You might say Curnow, but he certainly wasn’t to the clubs that overlooked him. Maybe if McKay has a good season he might move from bust to no-brainer too

Regardless of any such notion, give the man some credit for dealing these picks through the door in the first place with currency the likes of Lachie Henderson and Tom Bell.

SOS’ role at the Giants as list manager was to build a list from scratch that batted deep in many positions. I’d say he met the brief pretty well myself.

Curnow at 12 saved the weitering draft, and to be honest schache has not done much of anything yet.

He would of needed to take Clayton Oliver at 1 who went at basically 3 because Callum mills was a Sydney academy selection at no.3.

Harry McKay picked before daniel rioli and Wayne milera.

Still too early to call getting curnow must be a pass though.

Oliver + Curnow would of been the club changer

 

[La Dispute]

Curnow at 12 saved the weitering draft, and to be honest schache has not done much of anything yet.

He would of needed to take Clayton Oliver at 1 who went at basically 3 because Callum mills was a Sydney academy selection at no.3.

Harry McKay picked before daniel rioli and Wayne milera.

Still too early to call getting curnow must be a pass though.

Oliver + Curnow would of been the club changer

No idea why everyone has jumped off Weitering completely. He’s had an indifferent few years after having a stellar first year in the system but he’s a 21 year-old KPD in a bottom team. Far too early to call.

I’m also very happy with McKay over Rioli and Milera. Not that there’s any point comparing a KP player with flankers, but he’s shown as much in his 20 (?) odd AFL games.

Oliver would have been nice, but he was a genuine bolter and never in calculations for our first pick. Great forecasting from Melbourne though.

 

[Monkey King]

Curnow at 12 saved the weitering draft, and to be honest schache has not done much of anything yet.

He would of needed to take Clayton Oliver at 1 who went at basically 3 because Callum mills was a Sydney academy selection at no.3.

Harry McKay picked before daniel rioli and Wayne milera.

Still too early to call getting curnow must be a pass though.

Oliver + Curnow would of been the club changer

Oliver was a bolter; never gonna go first pick and let’s be real, he wasn’t Melbourne’s first choice either, them having initially bid on Mills with their pick.

In SOS’ first draft at Carlton, there was an emphasis on getting KPP’s, and I think that’s a smart way of going about it. And I’m very happy with the KPP’s Carlton selected. Weiters has plenty of talent. For a 20yo 200cm KPF I’m wrapped with what McKay showed last year and looking forward to seeing what he can do this year. And Charlie’s shaping up to be one of those “how on earth did he last so long” selections.

And again, it’s not just the players drafted, but also how those picks were acquired, that’s most impressive.